Tiny toy gun nearly gets boy suspended

[Celt1997]

It seems like the education system is more and more becoming an "us against them" situation.

Now, THAT, I can agree with. Come live in Pennsylvania the, "Teacher Strike State," and you'll see the us vs. them dynamic taken to the extremes.

 

[lorann]

I'm in agreement here. At times, it seems that school has become uncaring and cold. Here we have a 9/10-year-old boy playing with a toy Lego at lunch, which happens to be a toy gun. Yes, the policy is "no guns," but why couldn't the administration just have told the boy to put the gun away, or they could have even held it for him. Then a quick call to mom to say that the policy is no guns, even tiny toy guns. Then mom doesn't get all freaked out, the kid gets an explanation that makes sense, and everybody can stay out of the national news and go about their business.

It seems like the education system is more and more becoming an "us against them" situation.

Sounds very sensible to me...

I am old but the only time I was injured at school was by a spitball flung from a rubber band - need I say more?

 

[seatoad]

When my son was in 2nd grade, a child in his class got expelled for 3 months for bringing a knife to school.(We were not notified and did not know anything about it.) The child came back to class in January, and for some reason, picked up my son and threw him over a desk. My son was not sent to the nurse, I was not called , and my son didn't tell me about it for almost a week.(He was afraid I would make a stink about it, and he would get in trouble or get bullied.) When I spoke to the school, they said something about privacy policies etc. blah,blah. We actually moved to another school system where we have been very happy. It is a very strict no tolerance system, but so far have been very reasonable with everyone.

 

[sweetheart29]

ETA: And what is so wrong if the child is a little bit afraid of the principal? I know I was terrified of the "Principal's Office" and what it meant to be sent there. That's why I did my best to avoid getting into trouble!

I am 29 and still terrified of the Principal's office. We have a very nice principal he has 5 kids of his own that are in the same school. He knows when its kid stuff or if it a bigger matter. So If he calls me in I know its not because my son was being a sweet little angel. My son also knows if he get called to the Principal's office he in big trouble at home. The necklace my son was wearing his great grandpa had given the bullet to him it was not a real bullet The NRA sends them at collectible items my son tried it to cord and wore it around his neck. The necklace became mine when he took it to school.What if this teacher had told this kid before not to bring the toy gun to school. I know that I was not even told about my son until the next day that was just to let me know he had been warned.

 

[kgeaux]

The problem is, where you do draw the line? Are toys okay? What about air-soft guns? They are toys, yet they look so much like real guns that airport security often has a hard time telling for sure, and at least one child has been killed because someone thought he was pointing a real gun at another child.

What about size? This is tiny, but as a poster above mentioned, there are real weapons that are very small.

Somewhere there has to be a line. If you keep moving it, it's harder to follow the rules than if there is just one flat rule: NO GUNS.

That includes pictures of guns (we had a child suspended for that - he was drawing incredibly violent pictures and the school required that he be evaluated before returning to school) or toys (we've had 2 middle school boys expelled for bringing their air-soft guns to a school dance! :waitasec or even verbal threats (we currently have a third grader being assessed b/c he told another child he was going to bring a gun to school and kill him).

As an administrator, I cannot imagine a worse nightmare than having a child bring a weapon to school and harm others, unless it is that same scenario but I had a warning and didn't take it seriously enough.

AND, as the poster above stated, why is he bringing toys to school in the first place?

Last, the mother claims he was "almost suspended" in the original article, but never actually says that suspension was going to be the punishment or that the principal even suggested that. My guess is that the principal referred to the weapons policy which states that he would normally be suspended, and actually did use some common sense by not imposing that.

You are right that America is going to hell, but a lot of the reason is these parents who never let their kids learn any hard lessons about truth and consequences. I can promise you that if my kid got called into the principal's office they would be upset too, but not because of a pending lawsuit. It would be concern for how long their punishment at home was going to be for breaking the rules to begin with!

PS...he is not a preschooler. He is in 4th grade, so 9 or 10 years old. Too old to be bringing toys to school, and old enough to know the rules.

The preschooler remark was in reference to another post, which stated that preschoolers at her child's school cannot even pick up a stick and pretend it is a gun. I am aware that the child with the tiny, solid plastic gun, was in 4th grade.

I think that common sense would go a LONG way in helping school districts to determine what is or is not a weapon. Can the object be used to inflict harm?

Airsoft guns are considered to be toys, and they are not allowed at schools either. The difference between the airsoft gun and a solid, miniature plastic replica of a gun is basically that the airsoft is capable of shooting out a small plastic bb. The toy the 4th grader brought to school is incapable of doing any such thing! (Airsoft guns also have a large orange tip, so the person who was killed while holding onto one must either have removed the tip, which the company warns not to do, or the shooter was blind.)

I might be able to shed some light on why kids are bringing toys to school. I am not familiar with the district in question, but around here, many schools have NO swings, slides, tether balls, etc. Kids are not allowed to congregate in large groups. Kids are not allowed to yell or run. We cannot expect a growing child to sit quietly all day in class, eat lunch without talking to his neighbor and spend his recesses standing around talking softly. Heck, kids are dying of boredom, that is why they are tempted to bring a toy to school!

My own son was almost expelled because he and another boy were tossing a bottle cap back and forth to each other during recess. They were both accused of "using a weapon to inflict harm." If the damn school had some kick balls or something, maybe kids wouldn't have to play toss with a bottle cap!

In regards to the particular case we're talking about, there is still the question as to why the other child----the one with the star wars figure who was holding a sword----was not disciplined in any way.

I think it is a shame, an inexcusable shame that administrators of schools think of little children as little criminals. That administrators automatically assume that every child is roaming the schools, just waiting to kill someone with a bendy, two inch, solid plastic gun. That is sad, sad, sad. It is sad that administrators cannot tell the difference between non-lethal objects and lethal weapons. It is sad that the same punishment is meted out for both non-lethal objects and lethal objects. I think it is sad that little children cannot run and play during recess.

My mother and MIL are both retired school teachers. I'll tell you what they say. The public school system is imploding, failing, dying, not working. I totally agree with them.

 

[kgeaux]

yet if this child were to bring a gun and shoot others in the school, this incident would have been looked upon and we would be questioning why no one saw the signs. I think the rules are clear. And they have been broken.

LOL! This child did NOT bring a gun to school. He brought a toy. There IS A HUGE difference! And bringing toys to school probably isn't a sign that the kid is going to go psycho in the future!

 

[miss u daddy]

yet if this child were to bring a gun and shoot others in the school, this incident would have been looked upon and we would be questioning why no one saw the signs. I think the rules are clear. And they have been broken.

So does this mean that every child who likes to play cops/robbers, cowboys/indians or military men are all exhibiting warning signs that they are going to kill others? My son loves to play with "fake" guns. It doesn't matter if it's a rifle made by his Godfather or a Star Wars clone trooper shooter. It's simply a childhood game that can be taken out of context by others who don't agree with it. I think that any guns that look even remotely real should definately be kept at home. But, come on an itty bitty lego gun? Schools definately need common sense!

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

So does this mean that every child who likes to play cops/robbers, cowboys/indians or military men are all exhibiting warning signs that they are going to kill others? My son loves to play with "fake" guns. It doesn't matter if it's a rifle made by his Godfather or a Star Wars clone trooper shooter. It's simply a childhood game that can be taken out of context by others who don't agree with it. I think that any guns that look even remotely real should definately be kept at home. But, come on an itty bitty lego gun? Schools definately need common sense!

Is that what I said? I see IF's and THEN's in my quote. Nothing accusing this child of being crazy. All i can say is, if its a NO gun even toy policy, why isn't this child expected to be held to the rules?? cause we bend them, which leads to everyone having a different set of circumstances. ALl i'm saying is, there was a rule, he violated it. Do I think it's a little overboard? ok, but i'd rather err on the side of caution. That's my opinion.

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

LOL! This child did NOT bring a gun to school. He brought a toy. There IS A HUGE difference! And bringing toys to school probably isn't a sign that the kid is going to go psycho in the future!

he brought a toy gun where he wasn't supposed to bring a toy gun. I don't know how much more clear the rule really needs to be to be honest.

 

[kgeaux]

he brought a toy gun where he wasn't supposed to bring a toy gun. I don't know how much more clear the rule really needs to be to be honest.

You stated in your prior post that if this kid ever brought a real gun to school, we'd be looking at this little toy gun as a missed sign, we'd all be questioning how we could have missed this? I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this toy incident is not a sign of anything dangerous. It more likely speaks to the fact that the kids aren't allowed to run and jump and play physically, so they have resorted to other ways of entertaining themselves. Even further out on the limb, I'm going to suggest that this kid would never bring a full size toy gun to school, but that at his age, (Heck, even at my age!) what he brought to school is so far removed from "weapon" that it never occurred to him that any sentient being would have the slightest question as to whether it was a weapon or not! I'm going to suggest that IF this child ends up bringing a real gun to school in the future, it is more likely that because he was treated as a dangerous criminal for playing with a TOY, and less to do with the fact that the toy was a 2" solid plastic gun....

It is obvious to me that the school does NOT have a strictly enforced "no toys" policy and that this child was not disciplined for bringing a toy to school---he was disciplined for bringing a toy weapon to school. The child he was playing with had a Star Wars man with a sword, and he received no discipline at all! If both kids had toys, and the principal chose which one to discipline and which to let slide, then that smacks of unfairness. And this kid knows it, be sure! If, indeed, the school has a no toys policy, this child is now well aware that the policy counts for him but not for his friend.....you wanna make an anti-social being? That is a good place to start, to have authority pick out certain individuals to hold up to obedience while letting others get away with the exact same thing!

 

[raeann]

IMO and in personal experience as both a parent and staff member, schools which have these sorts of policies do NOT keep them a secret from either the kids or the parents. The rules are reviewed thoroughly and frequently in the classroom, at parents nights, at PTA meetings and in parent-teacher conferences on a regular basis. They are told that ALL toy weapons, knives, guns etc. are to be left at home, not even taken to school in backpacks. It is not like these rules are in fine print on some unseen document locked in a file cabinet and then brought out randomly just to terrorize innocent children. In this case, the punishment fit the "crime"....he got taken to the principals office, given a stern warning, the parent was called to explain what was going on, and he has been given no further punishment. He learned his lesson, and hopefully dozens of other kids got the point, also.

jmoo

 

[kgeaux]

IMO and in personal experience as both a parent and staff member, schools which have these sorts of policies do NOT keep them a secret from either the kids or the parents. The rules are reviewed thoroughly and frequently in the classroom, at parents nights, at PTA meetings and in parent-teacher conferences on a regular basis. They are told that ALL toy weapons, knives, guns etc. are to be left at home, not even taken to school in backpacks. It is not like these rules are in fine print on some unseen document locked in a file cabinet and then brought out randomly just to terrorize innocent children. In this case, the punishment fit the "crime"....he got taken to the principals office, given a stern warning, the parent was called to explain what was going on, and he has been given no further punishment. He learned his lesson, and hopefully dozens of other kids got the point, also.

jmoo

What lesson did anyone learn if the child with the toy sword wasn't disciplined at all? That a gun is a weapon? Even if it has no barrel? But a sword is not? That is is ok to bring star wars weapons, but not lego weapons? That it is ok for some kids to bring toy weapons, but not others?

 

[butwhatif?]

Oh, geez! They even want to control a preschooler's IMAGINATION???? How wrong is that?!

Imagination and fantasy are a great thing in kids. I love watching how creative my kids can be. Making roads out of toilet paper, plastic bowls into hats etc.
But, when my daughter used a object to pretend it was a gun, I told her that was not okay.
Am I wrong to control her imagination? Maybe in some peoples eyes, but I'm anti gun, and anti violence so I cannot condone it even if it was pretend.

Just like I wouldn't let them pretend to smoke a cigarette. Just because it's pretend doesn't make it okay imo.

If mum thinks it's okay for her son to play with toy guns that's fine- just do it at home.

Rules are rules, and everybody has to follow them. Grown ups have to follow rules too. By following school rules they learn about boundaries that prepare them for the laws that must be abided by as adults.
JMO

 

[southcitymom]

Oh, geez! They even want to control a preschooler's IMAGINATION???? How wrong is that?!

Appalling.