TN TN - Disappearances in the Great Smokey Mountains

[KarlK]

I am in Ontario and we hear of sightings all the time . All the links didn't work for me i guess the page has closed but if people were somewhat close you you can throw the mountian lion , cougar ,bob cat even a black bear none of them can kill in an instant and if he she or them were attacked you woulda been able to hear them scream. I would love to see a documentry on this case even pics and what wittnesses had said thicase sounds very interesting..

The article I read about the return of the cougar to its former eastern ranges did mention possible sightings in Ontario as well as Minnesota but stated that these had not been confirmed, meaning there was no physical evidence. In Quebec 3 different cougars believed to be part of the same family unit were photographed and filmed on several occasions, analysis of tracks and droppings later confirmed the species. This was in the western part of the province, not in the Appalachian range located in the east.

According to zoologists it is doubtful that the cougar will ever be able to re-established itself in the eastern mountains due to the arrival of a massive number of eastern coyotes in that area since the 1940's. Unlike the smaller western coyote the eastern variant is bigger and goes after large prey, having in effect replaced both the cougar and the timber wolf as the apex predator in the east. Current numbers of coyotes far exceed any historical wolf population, there is simply no room left for the cougar. The other apex predator, the black bear, does not go after the same prey as the coyote and thus is little affected by the competition.

Which begs the question. Could a single coyote attack and kill a human? Absolutely. Is it likely? No. Would it be swift and quiet? Not likely, it would be like a dog attack except for the lack of barking. Coyotes don't bark but they growl and howl and this would be noticed.

Like you I don't think a wild cat (lynx) would approach a human, let alone attack one. We're talking 20lb cat here.

The black bear is responsible for the huge majority of fatal attacks on humans in the northeast and eastern Canada. Due to its strength it can kill with a single blow and it is physically possible for one to attack without leaving the victim enough time to scream. But it would leave plenty of evidence of what had happened and in these cases none was found.

I am strongly inclined to think that the disappeared were the victim of accidents rather than a predator, be it human or animal. Mountainous, wooded areas are treacherous, wander off the beaten path and you may quickly find yourself in serious trouble. You could fall off a hidden cliff, fall into water and drown, be struck by falling rocks, or get lost and perish of exposure especially if no one knows where to look for you. Your body may not be found for years, if ever.

 

[CanManEh]

I am also aware about what fish N game has said about the cougar or mountian Lion..But there is a reason they are called the ghost cats and iam in in the north of ontario about 3 hours north of toronto and I can only speak of what i am told mostly from farmers and game wardens .we have a problem up here where we are going back and fourth with to many deer so they exstend the season or even get a special liscence to take one Doe mind you 2 years of that then its the other way to many wolves so its all out war kill all the wolves you see it just goes back n fourth thats in my oppinion why if u just leave it alone nature will allways allow it to balance it out but like i said the averege number of white tail is way up for the last decade which is why they think the mountian lion is coming back thier very solitary and have almost no boundry range like some animals they go where the food is and like i said there not called the ghost cat because thier bright pink and easy to spot but thier there.....Oh I should mention this as iam writing this iam watching finding bigfoot and they are in new york on the apilachion trail dont know if its the same trail or not . I think your correct about a bear but not a black bear ya its possible they could slice your throat with a swipe of the paw and thier claws but thats not how they fight they wrestle but more important is that bears .I appologise this is kinda graphic but they only take the nutrittion if u watch them fish they catch the salmon and they bite the heads off to get at the red gills and tear the skin off then leave the fish thats all they eat and its no different with a bear on a human its the insides of the stomach but even then they dont drag u off they will finish you right where they got you.a mountian lion thats different they will if they can they will take thier prey up a tree get it stuck between too branches so it is stuck in the tree..but thats small deer rabbitts baby moose lambs goats ...nothing weighing more then the cat itself...but this is all for nothing it just rules all of it out i say ...love to see a documentry or biography on this ..

 

[KarlK]

I am also aware about what fish N game has said about the cougar or mountian Lion..But there is a reason they are called the ghost cats and iam in in the north of ontario about 3 hours north of toronto and I can only speak of what i am told mostly from farmers and game wardens .we have a problem up here where we are going back and fourth with to many deer so they exstend the season or even get a special liscence to take one Doe mind you 2 years of that then its the other way to many wolves so its all out war kill all the wolves you see it just goes back n fourth thats in my oppinion why if u just leave it alone nature will allways allow it to balance it out but like i said the averege number of white tail is way up for the last decade which is why they think the mountian lion is coming back thier very solitary and have almost no boundry range like some animals they go where the food is and like i said there not called the ghost cat because thier bright pink and easy to spot but thier there.....Oh I should mention this as iam writing this iam watching finding bigfoot and they are in new york on the apilachion trail dont know if its the same trail or not . I think your correct about a bear but not a black bear ya its possible they could slice your throat with a swipe of the paw and thier claws but thats not how they fight they wrestle but more important is that bears .I appologise this is kinda graphic but they only take the nutrittion if u watch them fish they catch the salmon and they bite the heads off to get at the red gills and tear the skin off then leave the fish thats all they eat and its no different with a bear on a human its the insides of the stomach but even then they dont drag u off they will finish you right where they got you.a mountian lion thats different they will if they can they will take thier prey up a tree get it stuck between too branches so it is stuck in the tree..but thats small deer rabbitts baby moose lambs goats ...nothing weighing more then the cat itself...but this is all for nothing it just rules all of it out i say ...love to see a documentry or biography on this ..

The confirmed presence of cougars in western Quebec makes it very likely there are some in northern Ontario as well, it's just that wildlife authorities are being anal about pictures and poop. Makes sense that cougars migrating back east from the Rockies would settle in areas west and north of the St. Lawrence river but avoid crossing it into coyote territory.

Black bears usually attack humans when they feel threatened, not to feed on them. If there's a bear hidden in the bush and you inadvertently get to close it can jump you and you'll never know what hit you. A single blow to the head from one of its forepaws can kill you instantly and no one will know about it. But such sneak attacks are very rare, if you look up statistics concerning fatal attacks by a black bear you will see that the majority involve the victim trying to outrun the bear in the open which is never a good idea, a black bear can easily outrun any human. Personally, I would throw a plump trout at it, or at least a sandwich hoping that while the bear is busy eating it will buy me time to flee.

 

[CanManEh]

Oh ya That's what i was saying just have trouble making it sound that way with my words typed .9 times out of ten when I myself as well as alot of other people that have come across a black bear in the woods they almost everytime take off running or up a tree when they see a human .It;s usually the older bear that maybe has been injured or its teeth are messed up and they cant eat They don't even eat alot of meat to begin with but they do need it now and again even then its usually just happened to come along to a allready dead deer and they scavage and like i said its the older or injured bear that attack and they do it out of hunger .Anyway still a interesting case really with they had something on tv like a Documentry or biography about this or these cases ..

 

[wv171]

You can take my word for it or come here and hike our trail's and see for yourself , but Mt. Lions / Panthers are sure in the Appalachian range..

You don't see them too often but they are here..

Seen many bobcat's there very easy to tell they are bobcats.. Bobcats don't have that very long tail Plus they much smaller than Panthers..

Black Bears are well know to attack if protecting there young.. Plus I say they could attack humans too..

We got a other wild animal we need to look at.. Wild Boar or Wild Hogs, Them things are just down right mean.. It been reported couple times hogs eat human bodys and not leave nothing behind to find.. Was there not a Serial Killer up Canada few years back got caught feeding his victims to his hog's??

I think I read where like Farm Hogs can turn wild faster than any other type of animal..

 

[wv171]

You can take my word for it or come here and hike our trail's and see for yourself , but Mt. Lions / Panthers are sure in the Appalachian range..

You don't see them too often but they are here..

Seen many bobcat's there very easy to tell they are bobcats.. Bobcats don't have that very long tail Plus they much smaller than Panthers..

Black Bears are well know to attack if protecting there young.. Plus I say they could attack humans too..

We got a other wild animal we need to look at.. Wild Boar or Wild Hogs, Them things are just down right mean.. It been reported couple times hogs eat human bodys and not leave nothing behind to find.. Was there not a Serial Killer up Canada few years back got caught feeding his victims to his hog's??

I think I read where like Farm Hogs can turn wild faster than any other type of animal..

 

[KarlK]

You can take my word for it or come here and hike our trail's and see for yourself , but Mt. Lions / Panthers are sure in the Appalachian range..

You don't see them too often but they are here..

Seen many bobcat's there very easy to tell they are bobcats.. Bobcats don't have that very long tail Plus they much smaller than Panthers..

Black Bears are well know to attack if protecting there young.. Plus I say they could attack humans too..

We got a other wild animal we need to look at.. Wild Boar or Wild Hogs, Them things are just down right mean.. It been reported couple times hogs eat human bodys and not leave nothing behind to find.. Was there not a Serial Killer up Canada few years back got caught feeding his victims to his hog's??

I think I read where like Farm Hogs can turn wild faster than any other type of animal..

Regarding the presence of cougars in the east here's an excerpt from an online article:

The cougar was extirpated across much of its eastern North American range (with the exception of Florida) in the two centuries following European settlement, and faced severe threats in the remainder of its range. Currently, it ranges across most western American states, the Canadian provinces of Alberta, British Columbia and the Yukon Territory. There have been widely debated reports of possible return of the mountain lion to eastern North America. Evidence has suggested its presence in eastern North America, while a consolidated map of cougar sightings shows numerous reports, from the mid-western Great Plains through to eastern Canada. The Quebec wildlife department (known locally as MRNF) also considers the cougar to be present in the province as a threatened species after multiple DNA tests confirmed cougar hair at lynx mating sites.

Most other articles state pretty much the same, that is that in the east only Florida and Quebec have confirmed the presence of mountain lions using scientific means. This does not exclude their presence elsewhere but it's fair assumption to conclude that cougars are extremely rare in the east. And since they rarely attack humans even in areas where they are plentiful I think that the possibility of a cougar being responsible for the disappearance of hikers in the Smokies is very slim. The theory is attractive mostly because it involves an animal capable of a silent strike and many people are not aware that bears can also attack without making noise. They do this to avoid a commotion that could attract other humans (or any large prey) to the site.

That said I still think those who vanished much more likely fell victim to the elements or accidents.

 

[wv171]

Just a quick tip to other poster's.

That Ignore list work's very well on here..

Just in case anybody else have troubles like I ran into I very highly recommend it..

Like to thank Mod's and Tricia for the foresight of putting it on here..

 

[KarlK]

Not necessarily - I have a friend who is a geologist for the county, and says they're always finding illegal mines, usually old ones. It would be pretty easy to fall into one.

Indeed 'rogue' mining was common in that area a century ago. A prospecting party would dig a shaft and only stake a claim if they hit paydirt, which is illegal. The result is that a number of abandoned shafts remain unmarked to this day.

 

[Claudette]

As far as I know Quebec is the only place in North America east of the Rockies where there has been confirmed cougar (mountain lion) sightings since the 1920's, and those were quite recent. It doesn't make it absolutely impossible for a cougar to be present in the Smokies but it's extremely unlikely. Florida Panther is an extant smaller cougar subspecies but has never been seen outside south Florida and is not known to attack humans, it is very shy. Cougars are practically mute, they do not scream or growl but they can purr. Lynx rufus aka bobcat and the slightly larger Canada lynx aka wildcat both live in the Smokies but they are simply too small and too fearful of humans to attack them, especially during daylight hours. I do not know of any fatal lynx attack on a human, ever. They do hiss and growl though.

The Chicago suburbs has had numerous confirmed sightings, including animals that have been killed because of their presence in highly populated areas. No one believes me but I've also seen one myself that was hit by a car and was laying dead in the middle of the road. I thought it was a deer as I approached it because of the size (what else that size would be laying in the middle of the road), until I saw a lion-like face,ears and massive tail as I drove by. I was so shocked that I didn't pull over to take pics for proof.

 

[KarlK]

The Chicago suburbs has had numerous confirmed sightings, including animals that have been killed because of their presence in highly populated areas. No one believes me but I've also seen one myself that was hit by a car and was laying dead in the middle of the road. I thought it was a deer as I approached it because of the size (what else that size would be laying in the middle of the road), until I saw a lion-like face,ears and massive tail as I drove by. I was so shocked that I didn't pull over to take pics for proof.

You may be on to something. I suspect that some sightings are not duly registered with wildlife departments by local police mainly for two reasons: to avoid creating a panic among the public unfamiliar with these cats and/or to avoid the paperwork hassle that comes with the killing of an animal belonging to an endangered species. Washington types are not always very understanding of these situations.

I remember two years ago about 30 miles from our home in Maine my wife and I came upon an accident scene where a deer had been hit by a motorhome and was lying dead in the middle of the road. At least I thought it was a deer even though wife said it looked like a "lioness". Police were there in numbers (which I thought was odd for a dead deer) I didn't stop and only had a very brief glance at the carcass from a distance, it was the same color as a deer so I lost interest (I was kinda expecting a moose because of all the cops there) but wife kept looking and still insisted it was some kind of cat. Couldn't have been bobcat or lynx, those aren't the size of a deer thank God. I still dismissed the "lioness" because it wasn't on the news but who knows.

 

[Claudette]

Could you imagine being the person that hit it? That's what I always think about. They probably thought they hit the devil himself ha ha.

Sorry, sort of went off topic a bit, back on track now

 

[KarlK]

Could you imagine being the person that hit it? That's what I always think about. They probably thought they hit the devil himself ha ha.

Sorry, sort of went off topic a bit, back on track now

Heck I felt guilty for weeks after hitting a coyote and they are a dime a dozen up here, imagine a cougar! It was a winter night and the car in front of me suddenly swerved right into a snowbank and just missed the animal, but I had no chance to avoid it. The other driver came out and looked at the carcass saying "don't worry buddy that no husky dog it just a coyote". Somehow that did not make me feel any better.

We're not off-topic we're "paratopic", discussing animals that may be responsible for those people missing in the Smokies.

On full topic now, I still don't think animal attacks are the most likely explanation for what happened to those hikers mostly because nothing was heard and nothing was found. If they had been attacked near the main trail it's hard to conceive that no evidence of an attack whatsoever was ever spotted.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The mountain lion angle is an interesting twist!

I've always been interested in these disappearances.

 

[KarlK]

The mountain lion angle is an interesting twist!

I've always been interested in these disappearances.

Me too, it is very similar to the Paula Jean Welden case. Welden disappeared while hiking on or near the Appalachian Trail in Vermont back in 1946.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Me too, it is very similar to the Paula Jean Welden case. Welden disappeared while hiking on or near the Appalachian Trail in Vermont back in 1946.

Right, and there were two or three others who went missing in that area, I recall.

Life can certainly be strange . . .

 

[KarlK]

Right, and there were two or three others who went missing in that area, I recall.

Life can certainly be strange . . .

I drove to Bennington and walked up Long Trail Road (officially known as Harbour Road) recently, up that road is the location Welden was last seen before vanishing. After seeing the spot I am now convinced she got lost in the wilderness and not run away, contrary to what some believe. Harbour Road is isolated and there are several old unmarked logging roads branching off it prior to reaching Long Trail, locals say that in 1946 when logging was still allowed in that area there would have been dozens of such crude roads and with snow covering them they could easily be mistaken for hiking trails. It appears very likely that someone who isn't that familiar with the area could get hopelessly lost in the mountains and perish of exposure then have their body buried in snow for months, and ultimately scattered by scavenging animals. In those days clothing was still mainly made from natural fibers that would rot away or be consumed by bacteria pretty quickly, leaving virtually nothing to be found. It appears Welden had taken quite a serious risk by venturing out there in the snow after nightfall, and it may have cost her her life.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I am strongly inclined to think that the disappeared were the victim of accidents rather than a predator, be it human or animal. Mountainous, wooded areas are treacherous, wander off the beaten path and you may quickly find yourself in serious trouble. You could fall off a hidden cliff, fall into water and drown, be struck by falling rocks, or get lost and perish of exposure especially if no one knows where to look for you. Your body may not be found for years, if ever.

I like your comment, but don't know if I agree with it as it pertains to Polly.

One year I was camping at Rocky Mountain National Park, and a young boy went missing. He and his family were hiking along a trail, and the little boy ran ahead to wait for the family to catch up with him. When the family got there, the boy wasn't anywhere around. In spite of massive searches on ground and in the air, no trace of him was found.

So I know how easy a person can get lost in the mountains/woods, especially a youngster running ahead and getting turned around, confused, etc. Or a teenager wandering away from a group and getting separated. Even experienced backpackers and hunters get lost.

But Polly wasn't running along the path, just walking quickly enough to outpace her two companions. She had walked this trail for 20 years and had never been known to wander off the path before. She supposedly had a fierce fear of snakes. I just can't see a woman of Polly's size walking off the known trail for anything other than a very compelling reason.

She was a large woman so the thought of someone dragging her off the path, unseen by other hikers and joggers, seems unlikely.

I think perhaps she saw something/someone that caught her attention and she went to check it out. Maybe she even saw it as they began the hike, thought about it during the hike, and decided to walk ahead and check it out before telling anyone about it.

How far was the parking lot from the beginning of the trail? I know I read that somewhere, but can't remember.

Thanks for any thoughts on this!

 

[wv171]

A other thing we need to look out for during spring to fall season is the growing large cash crop of Pot Growers.. They will not be right on the well travel trails but off into hidden hard to reach spots.. But they will be very close to a water supply..

I feel this long shot unless men been in wood's months at a time.. But we do need to look at all angles

I myself ran into fish hooks at eye level glad I am extra tall and other traps set-up's.. You start run into these signs it best to back track your way from the area.. Some traps are deadly such as pipe-shotgun shell's..

 

[Marilynilpa]

Here is a site to an interesting article about how a missing person search is conducted in the Smoky Mountains.

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/component/k2/item/6619-anatomy-of-a-smokies-search