TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

[McSpy]

It was apparently Mike M., MP's investigator. Here's a screen shot of the video:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7


Here's someone who says it was reported elsewhere as belonging to MP's private investigator:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April
2011 - #7

Wow! Quite the coincidence! It has different wheels and no spare tire cover, but wouldn't it be weird if that was Gail's Jeep with changes to make it look like it was a separate vehicle. My imagination at work here! Lol

 

[McSpy]

I don't think it matters if Gail said something to a friend, family member, or LE -- if she was scared and thought something was going to happen to her, wouldn't LE want to know everything out there so they could make a decision about investigating or not?

Knowing how long it took before searching the residences tells us that they don't believe there was foul play...LE keeps saying there are no signs of foul play. How do they know that if they haven't fully investigated? Common sense would suggest they would have to investigate to know whether or not to place manpower and money on the case. What did the interviews with her husband, children, neighbors, husband's mistress, siblings, former co-workers -- what did they tell LE that they believe Gail just left home? Must have been
very convincing. I'd be interested to read what they said.

Who made the initial decision that there was no foul play? Which agency, which detective? Does anyone know?

I'd like to see evidence that Gail DID leave. Show me that and I'll stop
thinking that she didn't choose to leave.

Has anyone asked Senator Corker or Senator Alexander if they're aware of this case? Or does Governor Haslam know the details of this case? Or Congressman Fleischer? What does it take
to get an answer as to why anyone thinks she just left? The Sheriff said sometimes people leave for years and then just come home -- really? How many and who are they? And if LE believes that to be true, why did they say they'd take another look when the foliage is off the trees. What do they expect to find.

People seldom just fall off the face of the earth. Where is she? Maybe no one knows where she is. Maybe her husband or family has no idea where she is.

Isn't that all the more reason to look for her?
Praying for Gail and hoping to find her safe.

I'd like to add that LE usually says there is no evidence of foul play. They usually don't say there is no foul play, when the case is not solved. There is a big distinction.

 

[Emeralgem]

I don't think it matters if Gail said something to a friend, family member, or LE -- if she was scared and thought something was going to happen to her, wouldn't LE want to know everything out there so they could make a decision about investigating or not?

Knowing how long it took before searching the residences tells us that they don't believe there was foul play...LE keeps saying there are no signs of foul play. How do they know that if they haven't fully investigated? Common sense would suggest they would have to investigate to know whether or not to place manpower and money on the case. What did the interviews with her husband, children, neighbors, husband's mistress, siblings, former co-workers -- what did they tell LE that they believe Gail just left home? Must have been very convincing. I'd be interested to read what they said.

Who made the initial decision that there was no foul play? Which agency, which detective? Does anyone know?

I'd like to see evidence that Gail DID leave. Show me that and I'll stop thinking that she didn't choose to leave.

Has anyone asked Senator Corker or Senator Alexander if they're aware of this case? Or does Governor Haslam know the details of this case? Or Congressman Fleischer? What does it take to get an answer as to why anyone thinks she just left? The Sheriff said sometimes people leave for years and then just come home -- really? How many and who are they? And if LE believes that to be true, why did they say they'd take another look when the foliage is off the trees. What do they expect to find.

People seldom just fall off the face of the earth. Where is she? Maybe no one knows where she is. Maybe her husband or family has no idea where she is.

Isn't that all the more reason to look for her?

Praying for Gail and hoping to find her safe.

:goodpost::gthanks::great:

 

[hollyblue]

Speaking of selling property, isn't Gail's name on the deed? How is he going to manage to pull that off?
My thoughts and prayers are with the children also.. This has to be a nightmare for them..JMHO

IMHO..They are the true victims here other than Gail..JMHO

I don't know Em, it seems there would be a problem with the sale IF Gail returned--- for the buyers; seems they would lose any investment they had. The only thing I can think of is the realtor is showing it with the hope of a rental or some kind of lease to buy with stipulations??? Unless GP did sign off on her interest in the property...which I highly doubt. Does anyone know if she did speak to an attorney...just for advice or preparations besides AD?

 

[hollyblue]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I had a similar situation when I was a kid, but my father wasn't interested in custody at all, so the subject never came up. The arguments occurred often and there was a separation, but they never went through with the divorce as well.

Since MP filed for custody right after Gail disappeared, IMO, there were arguments over custody. It seems to fit.

JMO

I'd really like to hear the thoughts on why those who think GP just decided to leave on her own could leave the kids with no looking back? I do have my thoughts, but, people who know her say she wouldn't have done it. jmo

 

[hollyblue]

<modsnip>the location for the Cue Center's rally on Oct 22 is Pruetts Market parking lot. If I find the info on Cue's website, I'll provide a link, but I thought the information should be available to all who care about GP and want to support this effort. imo

 

[confused]

Wow! Quite the coincidence! It has different wheels and no spare tire cover, but wouldn't it be weird if that was Gail's Jeep with changes to make it look like it was a separate vehicle. My imagination at work here! Lol

It's not the same color.

 

[Emeralgem]

IIRC It took awhile for LE to get Evelyn Mosher, the Signal Mtn. woman who hired someone to kill her husband..
I have to trust justice will be served to the person/s responsible for Gail's disappearance..JMHO

 

[hollyblue]

Hmmmm, interesting . I know this is CPD, but don't we have the HCSD major crimes detectives on GP's investigation now? No foul play?

Missing Persons Division


The Youth & Family Investigations unit is commanded by Lieutenant Mike Mathis.

If circumstances indicate that foul play may be involved, a major crimes investigator may be assigned to the case.

http://www.chattanooga.gov/police_department/74_citymissingpersons.htm

 

[hollyblue]

This festival is taking place now and hopefully there will be people out and about in SM and areas that need a looksee. Too bad posters can't be passed out and a story of GP's case on some local media at this time.

RiverRocks Festival Schedule

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_210321.asp

 

[Annie_61]

I was following this one too, and did you see? They found him! Perfectly safe, in Canada. Apparently he just got in his big van and drove away. So glad for his family that he was located. Just thought you would want to know, if you didn't.

Just goes to show when the LE have full cooperation of family & friends how much easier and quicker it is to find someone who is missing, even if they have left of their own free will but. Good to see a happy ending
We can only hope that Gail’s case have the same happy ending.
But sadly after 5 months it doesn’t seem likely. Just my gut feeling of course.

Sorry for having to go back on old post but due to time differences posting is a rare thing for me

 

[Annie_61]

I've done a fair amount of work in my professional life developing standards, processes, and procedures, primarily for various government agencies. It was primarily at the federal level, but I've also done state, county, city level.

Because of this, I know that every government agency has procedures for everything - and I do mean everything lol. I also know that when an agency or department develops their own procedures for something, they have to start with procedures they're required to follow, and procedures they must use as a basis, which usually are based on tried and true methods that work, best practices, etc.

So... with all this in mind, after failing to find anything online for Signal Mountain, Hamilton County, or TN for procedures, I decided to go for the next best thing - what an agency would be likely to use as at least a starting point for their missing person procedures.

I think I found it. I think it's CALEA 41.2.5 and CALEA 41.2.6.

I'm finding lots of agencies that cite it as a reference, and lots of agencies with exactly the same wording.

What I'm not finding - yet! - is the original CALEA Standard that I can be guaranteed hasn't been modified or adapted by an indivual agency.

I'll keep looking.

Meanwhile, if anyone is interested in reading through some of these documents, just Google CALEA 41.2.5 or 41.2.5 missing persons

Here are some examples of the documents you can find:

Phoenix PD:
http://phoenix.gov/police/missin1.html

Peoria AZ PD:
http://www.peoriaaz.gov/uploadedFiles/Peoriaaz/Departments/Police/Administration/4_29.pdf

Boardman Township PD:
http://www.boardmantwp.com/Police/documents/calea policies/158 Missing Person.pdf


In the course of my poking around, I also found this article:

When people go missing; Foul play or running away?
Posted Aug 16, 2010 @ 07:00 AM
Last update Aug 17, 2010 @ 10:44 AM
http://www.cantonrep.com/stark/canton/x2092793739/When-people-go-missing-Foul-play-or-running-away

One thing that stands out from the links is that lack of funds and resources plays a huge part in why so many missing person cases can’t be investigated deeper. It really is making it so easy for criminals to dispose of people and get away with it, all you need to do is make sure there is no sign of foul play and you are pretty much home free. Sometimes it seems the laws that are meant to be there to protect everyday citizens are becoming more about protecting criminals. The LE really do have their hands tied a lot of times when it comes to making a call on how much time they can spend on a case, gut instinct no longer can play as big a part in solving crime these days.

As someone who lives a pretty dull ordinary life I can’t understand why anyone who has a missing family member would object to talking to LE, having the LE enter and search my place. Even though I know it is my right to refuse to talk etc. my personal feeling is, if I have nothing to hide why stop the LE from doing their job. It would give me peace of mind to be able to walk around with my head held high knowing I had done all I could to help the LE and prevent finger pointing. Also would help the LE from wasting valuable resources trying to work out if I was up to no good. Just some thoughts after reading all those links.

Again sorry for the late reply to a post...I am about to turn into a pumkin so will say good night.

 

[BeanE]

Hmmmm, interesting . I know this is CPD, but don't we have the HCSD major crimes detectives on GP's investigation now? No foul play?

Missing Persons Division


The Youth & Family Investigations unit is commanded by Lieutenant Mike Mathis.

If circumstances indicate that foul play may be involved, a major crimes investigator may be assigned to the case.

http://www.chattanooga.gov/police_department/74_citymissingpersons.htm

That's the Chattanooga Police Department (CPD). They don't handle Gail's case. Gail's case is handled by the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office (HCSO).

If you go to the HCSO website (http://www.hcsheriff.gov) and look under the Site Map link, or the grey Investigations tab in the line of clickable tabs across the page under the page heading, you see what HCSO's Investigations division handles:

Investigations

Internal Affairs
Domestic Violence
Fugitive
Narcotics
Sex Offender Registry
Property Crimes
Property & Evidence
Special Services
S.U.R.T.

And one more - Personal Crimes. If you go to the Personal Crimes page, you see that Personal Crimes handles:

Personal Crimes

Child Abuse
Missing Persons
Suspicious Deaths, Homicide and Violent Crime

http://www.hcsheriff.gov/cid/personal_crimes.asp

HCSO has stated a multitude of times that Gail's case is a Missing Person case, and that there is no evidence of foul play.

HCSO's Sheriff Hammond additionally stated that "There's nothing at this point to indicate that anything nefarious has occurred".
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/15144246/fbi-now-looking-at-gail-palmgren-disappearance

Based on all the above, it's impossible for me, personally, to see how a different agency is structured, and its procedures, into an indication that HCSO secretively has classified Gail's case as a major crime, and is lying to the public.

Upholding the public trust by being honest is important in law enforcement. I see in many cases where people express that they think LE is being dishonest with the public, but personally, it seems to me that it's a very rare thing. LE seems to me to refrain from commenting at all when information needs to be kept confidential, and then later, either they release the information to the press, or it comes out at trial.

99% of the time, I follow LE's lead, because they have training, knowledge, experience, and information that I don't. I'm following LE's lead in Gail's case, and LE is telling me (the public) there is not only no physical evidence of foul play (seems to me to be the most common statement of this sort made), and no evidence period (indicates no circumstantial to me) of foul play, but have taken it all the way to telling me (the public) there is nothing at all to indicate that anything at all nefarious happened here.

As always, I ask no one to agree with me, and am not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm simply expressing my thoughts, opinions, and how I perceive what I have learned about this case.

If any additional information comes out, or if LE develops or receives new leads and releases them, I can certainly perceive this case differently.

 

[BeanE]

Just goes to show when the LE have full cooperation of family & friends how much easier and quicker it is to find someone who is missing, even if they have left of their own free will but. Good to see a happy ending
We can only hope that Gail&#8217;s case have the same happy ending.
But sadly after 5 months it doesn&#8217;t seem likely. Just my gut feeling of course.

Sorry for having to go back on old post but due to time differences posting is a rare thing for me

Just a note on Patrick Borally's case - it is a happy ending because he is alive, I agree, however, sadly, Pat has been reported in MSM per a police report to have made more than one suicide attempt during the time he was missing. He was found in a car with a hose hooked up to pump the carbon monoxide (I think that's what it is?) into the car, and a suicide note.

 

[BeanE]

One thing that stands out from the links is that lack of funds and resources plays a huge part in why so many missing person cases can’t be investigated deeper.

Exactly - it all comes down to money, because we pay for the services of LE with our tax dollars. If we want more work done on missing person cases, we need to pay more taxes so that LE can hire more people to do the work.

Meantime, LE has to prioritize their case loads with the number of people they have, and the cost for additional resources to work on missing person cases falls to their families, for example, in privately engaging PIs, which is very expensive.

Families can also engage search organizations at no cost to them, but there is still a cost - the search organizations have to get funding somewhere for equipment, training, travel, housing during searches. And the searchers have to put out their own money for their own equipment, dogs, care of dogs, special clothing, shoes, boots, etc.

I don't know what the answer is. We can't, as individuals, make everybody pay more taxes for LE to hire more people. We can lobby for it in our own towns, but it will take many, many years I think.

We can donate to search organizations, and to the foundations that families of the missing set up to help fund the search for their loved ones.

And of course, we can all keep posting the flyers for missing persons, online, in our towns, and in towns we travel to, every chance we get, and encourage others to do the same.

The situation leaves me feeling helpless to help very much, and then I always think how much more helpless the family members must feel. Few of them have the money to pour into large scale search efforts and longterm PI services, or even any PI services at all.

It's very sad.

 

[confused]

That's the Chattanooga Police Department (CPD). They don't handle Gail's case. Gail's case is handled by the Hamilton County Sheriff's Office (HCSO).

If you go to the HCSO website (http://www.hcsheriff.gov) and look under the Site Map link, or the grey Investigations tab in the line of clickable tabs across the page under the page heading, you see what HCSO's Investigations division handles:

Investigations

Internal Affairs
Domestic Violence
Fugitive
Narcotics
Sex Offender Registry
Property Crimes
Property & Evidence
Special Services
S.U.R.T.

And one more - Personal Crimes. If you go to the Personal Crimes page, you see that Personal Crimes handles:

Personal Crimes

Child Abuse
Missing Persons
Suspicious Deaths, Homicide and Violent Crime

http://www.hcsheriff.gov/cid/personal_crimes.asp

HCSO has stated a multitude of times that Gail's case is a Missing Person case, and that there is no evidence of foul play.

HCSO's Sheriff Hammond additionally stated that "There's nothing at this point to indicate that anything nefarious has occurred".


Based on all the above, it's impossible for me, personally, to see how a different agency is structured, and its procedures, into an indication that HCSO secretively has classified Gail's case as a major crime, and is lying to the public.

Upholding the public trust by being honest is important in law enforcement. I see in many cases where people express that they think LE is being dishonest with the public, but personally, it seems to me that it's a very rare thing. LE seems to me to refrain from commenting at all when information needs to be kept confidential, and then later, either they release the information to the press, or it comes out at trial.

99% of the time, I follow LE's lead, because they have training, knowledge, experience, and information that I don't. I'm following LE's lead in Gail's case, and LE is telling me (the public) there is not only no physical evidence of foul play (seems to me to be the most common statement of this sort made), and no evidence period (indicates no circumstantial to me) of foul play, but have taken it all the way to telling me (the public) there is nothing at all to indicate that anything at all nefarious happened here.

As always, I ask no one to agree with me, and am not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm simply expressing my thoughts, opinions, and how I perceive what I have learned about this case.

If any additional information comes out, or if LE develops or receives new leads and releases them, I can certainly perceive this case differently.

Thank you for that post! Excellent information and well stated. I have read so much second guessing, questioning and outright blaming LE in this case. Criticizing LE for not doing this or that, and even trying to claim corruption in the form of the 'good ole boy' idea. It's been eye opening to see that so many form an opinion based on rumors and things they see elsewhere, and are ready to convict someone for a serious crime based on that-and talk badly about LE because they don't agree. I am sure most would feel differently if they were the one being accused. I am glad that LE is being quiet and carefully doing their investigation. Hopefully it will result in Gail and the truth being found.

 

[hollyblue]

I stated it was an officer of a different LE agency, but an investigation is usually handled in the same manner.

I think it's common knowledge that LE "fibs" when investigating a case and the public could care less when they do---IF the truth eventually comes out and the case is solved. JMO LE cares about solving the case and not whether or not they are appeasing public opinion...at least I hope not.

 

[Oriah]

Exactly - it all comes down to money, because we pay for the services of LE with our tax dollars. If we want more work done on missing person cases, we need to pay more taxes so that LE can hire more people to do the work.

Meantime, LE has to prioritize their case loads with the number of people they have, and the cost for additional resources to work on missing person cases falls to their families, for example, in privately engaging PIs, which is very expensive.

Families can also engage search organizations at no cost to them, but there is still a cost - the search organizations have to get funding somewhere for equipment, training, travel, housing during searches. And the searchers have to put out their own money for their own equipment, dogs, care of dogs, special clothing, shoes, boots, etc.

I don't know what the answer is. We can't, as individuals, make everybody pay more taxes for LE to hire more people. We can lobby for it in our own towns, but it will take many, many years I think.

We can donate to search organizations, and to the foundations that families of the missing set up to help fund the search for their loved ones.

And of course, we can all keep posting the flyers for missing persons, online, in our towns, and in towns we travel to, every chance we get, and encourage others to do the same.

The situation leaves me feeling helpless to help very much, and then I always think how much more helpless the family members must feel. Few of them have the money to pour into large scale search efforts and longterm PI services, or even any PI services at all.

It's very sad.

Thank you for this very astute post, BeanE.

It kind of randomly made me think of a time years ago when we were approached by a (very well intentioned) name brand manufacturer of USAR helmets. Much reduced cost- as long as any search that appeared in the media contained a shot of their label.

Had to turn that one down. Way to help victims? Not so much. Way to help SAR? Not so much.

But the cost ratio analysis forces many groups- into situations they do not want to be in... but have to be in.

Leaves me feel helpless too.

 

[Emeralgem]

IMHO..Considering the search of the residence on Ridgerock didn't even take place until almost two months after Gail was reported missing, I really don't know how Hammond can be certain no foul play is involved....
Guess he is entitled to state whatever he chooses since he is the sheriff, but that doesn't mean the public agrees with his assumptions concerning Gail's case..JMHO..

http://www.wdef.com/news/hamilton_co_investigators_search_gail_palmgrens_house/06/2011

 

[BeanE]

IMHO..Considering the search of the residence on Ridgerock didn't even take place until almost two months after Gail was reported missing, I really don't know how Hammond can be certain no foul play is involved....
Guess he is entitled to state whatever he chooses since he is the sheriff, but that doesn't mean the public agrees with his assumptions concerning Gail's case..JMHO..

http://www.wdef.com/news/hamilton_co_investigators_search_gail_palmgrens_house/06/2011

Personally, I haven't seen Hammond say he's certain. I've seen him (and LE e.g. Atkinson) say they haven't found any evidence and they haven't found any indications.

To me, that's different than saying "I'm certain", and to me, it's different from making assumptions - they're saying they haven't found anything.

My understanding, based on Gail's case still being marked Active, is that they will continue to investigate, and as I understand all these cases work, if and when they do find anything to indicate foul play, then they'll go in that direction.

If anyone in the public has evidence or sees indications of foul play, then I would encourage them to document it clearly, and send it to the tip email address:

Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office
423-209-8940
Sheriff’s dispatcher 423-622-0022
investigations@hcsheriff.gov

http://www.hcsheriff.gov/