TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[confused]

I believe Confused confirmed that, Oriah.

nope not me...I have not stated anything at all about Matt or Gail's mobile.

 

[Pearl*]

I recall Jammer via his call with Davis state, MP was messy, but I think Davis is trying to publicly create a persona of MP as nerdy, messy, unsmart, aka not someone that could do anything wrong. IMHO

Your points Pearl would seem more obvious.

[bbm]

Except maybe by accident? :drink:

I can't imagine he would make it through pharmacy school and advance to the executive position he had if he was really such a goof.

What were the day to day responsibilities on his job, anyway? Organizing anything? Coordinating anything? Surely so....

 

[BeanE]

The more I hear AD talk about the preparations Gail was making to leave, the more I think that Gail didn't want Matt to drive her car alone because she had things stashed there. maybe PI reports, money, alternate cell phone, any number of things, and if she let him take t alone he could stop and and take h time searching.

Calling because he was intoxicated doesn't seem right. It not only would have made someone who was intoxicated mad, it would have involved the police and could have resulted in a public intoxication arrest/citation. We know that didn't happen, so I just don't see that fitting.

Now there's a thought. Stashing things in the car she didn't want him to find. I've known women to 'outfit' their car with everything they'd need if they had to dash quickly. In every case, the husband/sig other never their car, so it was safe to keep it stuffed.

I'm trying to think. Wasn't there one article that said something about Gail finding a used bandaid and the radio station changed? And she was upset thinking someone (Matt or someone else) had driven her car? That would fit if she had it packed.

On the intoxication, I have to agree. I think LE would have written in the report that she called because her husband was intoxicated, rather than writing it was because he got out and was walking home. It's a puzzler though.

 

[Pearl*]

nope not me...I have not stated anything at all about Matt or Gail's mobile.

Earlier, we had implications that MP and GP did not have the same carrier. I know that, because frustration over the courthouse farce of the day prompted me to make a snide comment I probably should not have posted. I was promptly taken to task for my comment, as I recall, (no problem with that) but no one corrected the premise that the Palmgrens had different cell phone carriers.

It was confirmed at least three ways that GP's phone is Sprint.

I'd bet money that MP's plan is/was Verizon.

Here is the relevant post:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6802045#post6802045"]TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7 - Page 23 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[BeanE]

Earlier, we had implications that MP and GP did not have the same carrier. I know that, because frustration over the courthouse farce of the day prompted me to make a snide comment I probably should not have posted. I was promptly taken to task for my comment, as I recall, (no problem with that) but no one corrected the premise that the Palmgrens had different cell phone carriers.

It was confirmed at least three ways that GP's phone is Sprint.

I'd bet money that MP's plan is/was Verizon.

Don't forget he's gotten a new cell number - may have a new phone and/or carrier now.

 

[MacKat]

I'm not sure what beans were there to spill. The impression I had was that the two weren't being all that discreet around the workplace....

I'm wondering more about what started the conflict--really whether that might have been part of the plan, to get her to the lake house on the 29th--although I don't know why, since she came right back. If the lake house was her refuge, he must have figured that's where she would go. I never believed that phrasing early on, that SMPD decided he would stay on Signal and she would go to Alabama.

Yes, I've heard that too. But she now has proof beyond an affair and he is on company time and company dime. I'm just thinking that a confrontation of I know what you are doing and I have/will be sharing that could have happened that night. If MP now believes his job is fleeting which would ruin his exit plan...who knows.

 

[Pearl*]

Don't forget he's gotten a new cell number - may have a new phone and/or carrier now.

True. My understanding is that his carrier--possibly through a business account--was Verizon at the time of Gail's disappearance.

Now... I bet he no longer has a company phone. I'm guessing we aren't concerned with the question of which is his current carrier though. Correct? Or is there a reason to need to know both?

 

[JBean]

from Fran's timeline:

"MP now has the jewels GP left with M&KG and now MG has reportedly spoken THRU MP'S CRIMINAL ATTORNEY, that GP was all f'd up when she was there and now MG is employed by MP as his attorney against his previous employer so now has attorney/client obligations........."

Can we name these people yet?

Have they been named in the MSM?

 

[Pearl*]

Have they been named in the MSM?

Arlene named them in the WGOW radio broadcast yesterday. Does audio MSM count?

 

[happy409]

The more I hear AD talk about the preparations Gail was making to leave, the more I think that Gail didn't want Matt to drive her car alone because she had things stashed there. maybe PI reports, money, alternate cell phone, any number of things, and if she let him take t alone he could stop and and take h time searching.

Calling because he was intoxicated doesn't seem right. It not only would have made someone who was intoxicated mad, it would have involved the police and could have resulted in a public intoxication arrest/citation. We know that didn't happen, so I just don't see that fitting.

I would agree that GP may not have wanted MP to drive her car because of things maybe stashed there. But, I recall the police report about him walking away from the car was more in line with GP wanting to go as a 'family' to the lake house and therefore less of a chance for MP to bail out and leave at any time, for whatever reason...but that's just my opinion. If they weren't getting along, I can see that being plausible, maybe understandable, especially since recently it is public knowledge he had a girlfriend. I bet that is the last thing TH wanted to hear, JMHO. Which brings more speculation of the happenstance of 'Friday night' calls when MP could be be away from the family, whereever that may be, but IMHO making it look like GP's fault.

The intoxication issues I saw that were only speculated because in most disturbance calls, and I'd say most of them up here on the mountain, the MAN usually leaves the house to 'cool down' in a domestic disturbance call (not the women and especially not uprooting children from their home) is normal practice from talking to SMPD officers, unless of course it was not in the best interest and/or inability for the MAN to leave. SMPD are peacekeepers. I welcome anyone that has a better explanation, I'm flexible.

JMHO but I don't even recall if you searched arrest records there would be hardly, if any, public drunk arrest/citations. SMPD are peacekeepers, they've been know to just take people home.

Remember, on Signal Mountain, there is no jail, they have to be taken off the mountain, down to Hamilton County jail, booked, it could involve hours of their time, reports, etc., I've heard it's a hassle, takes patrol off the street, etc. JMHO We don't have crime to speak of here, and most disturbances 'usually' turn out OK, but I can't speak for LE on how many chances they may actually take.

FYI - Here are the booking reports for Hamilton County
http://www.hcsheriff.gov/cor/display.php?day=1

 

[happy409]

nope not me...I have not stated anything at all about Matt or Gail's mobile.

Oops, sorry, I recall a conversation about Matt possibly having AT&T and 'someone' stated why would it matter who had what carrier, since it was confirmed GP had Sprint? I just thought it was a norm that most 'families' are on the same plan, it's certainly more cost efficient. :twocents:

 

[confused]

Oops, sorry, I recall a converstation about Matt possibly having AT&T and 'someone' stated why would it matter who had what carrier, since it was confirmed GP had Sprint? I just thought it was a norm that most 'families' are on the same plan, it's certainly more cost efficient. :twocents:

No problem, I mentioned that my hubby has AT&T, but I didn't say anything about Matt's carrier.

FYI, after much shopping around, we found we come out better cost wise on the separate plans.


OT. We have more missing people in Chattanooga tonight. 2 teenage girls and a man. The report I saw was very lacking in detail, but scary. Said the police were concerned for one of the girls lives, because the other had made comments about killing her and had stolen a pair of scissors to take with them???? Creepy.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

The mindmeister is fantastic! Who do we have to thank for that again?

A couple things jumped out at me after looking at it:

NOTE: Total speculation ONLY.

1) The jewelry she left with the G's I believe was intended for AD. She was supposed to see AD, but left before M got there, and this other stop looks like it was unplanned....

2) I'm wondering how long it takes the G's to call MP about her visit? It's very interesting that in the days after this visit is when MP tells her he's filing....I wonder if he was completely sure that he had covered all his tracks re: his affair, and then after this call, he realizes that she has somehow caught on to him????

3) New theory to throw out there....Was there some kind of tracking software put on GP's phone, maybe while she was sleeping or something? I did find websites that sell stuff like that....software that allows you to hear conversations and read texts, etc. Scary. I'm not sure at all how it works, have to look into it more I guess. I just can't shake a few things....one - that she saw her PI the 28th and then he suddenly came home 12 hours early the next day....like he knew?

I think I heard he was in PA, is that right? Since I don't know where in PA, I ran a map from Somerset, which is in the southwest corner, so closest to TN....It's between 10-11 hours without stops depending on which route you take, so I think with stops, 11 hours is a fair guess - it's about the same distance from Pittsburgh or Harrisburg, and 12.5 hours from Philly. So that means that if he got home before noon as I think I saw on the mindmeister, driving straight through he would have had to leave by 1AM. Unless they drove halfway, then stopped somewhere and drove the other half the next morning, then of course it would have taken longer.

Perhaps they don't give you the calls real time, but just download them to a website that you can then call in and listen to? Perhaps at the end of a long enjoyable day with TH he took a minute to listen to the calls and was like "Uh-oh." Either way it seems like he found this out and raced straight home....Of course there could be other ways he knew...Perhaps an MP friend saw her meet the PI at a coffee shop or something....that could be possible...

But then look at them both showing up in their cars at SMPD on 4/29. Does she text a friend and say she's going to LE and he gets a copy of the text and goes there too? I think after this incident GP does suspect that her phone is being monitored...after this day GP is afraid to talk openly on her phone I think....her text to AD "call say little" I think was meant to say "can say little." Why? She was in the car by herself at that point? Who was she afraid would hear her? She was also very vague with her sister on the phone. Did she suspect someone was monitoring her phone? This would be delusional....unless it was true.

So maybe he gets the call from the G's before leaving for conference. He knows, he knows she's talking, hiding assets, etc. He needs to keep tabs on her and find out what else she knows, but he already has this romantic trip planned with TH. How can he go on his trip and keep tabs on her at the same time? How indeed.

ETA: This program http://www.flexispy.com/spyphone-flexispy-apple-iphone.htm even lets you track a location by GPS. So if something like this was installed on her phone, he could have known where she was after she left. too. It will also switch on the mic on an iphone (don't know about other phones) to record conversations in the room!

 

[happy409]

[bbm]

Except maybe by accident? :drink:

I can't imagine he would make it through pharmacy school and advance to the executive position he had if he was really such a goof.

What were the day to day responsibilities on his job, anyway? Organizing anything? Coordinating anything? Surely so....

Not sure, I only heard he sent e-mails...

:werk:

 

[hollyblue]

That may be the answer, glorias. That may be the reason. That LE just didn't take Gail seriously, and no one else was able to spur them to action. I'm not ready to accept that yet though.

I'm not ready to accept it's that Matt didn't call until May 2 either. Gail has a lot of people who care very deeply about her, deeply enough that I don't think they'd sit around for days complaining about Matt while Gail was hanging out on a limb. They go to Plan B. And they'd have done that on Saturday.

Something kept the wheels from turning.

I'll get off my soapbox, but I firmly believe some information is missing here. I'll keep poking around and noodling on it.

LE has never stated in the media that they talked to GP on Saturday.....is that the missing piece? Has/did Diane question them about that when she was there? What did my sister convey to you? Did she tell you about being scared and followed? Did she describe the vehicle? Give you plate #'s? Where did all these "followings" take place?

I also want to know why Gail was so afraid to stay at the lake house? She would retreat there in times of trouble and then within a few hours take off again. Did she hear something? Was she getting calls from someone? This is just one of the reasons I think MP won't let the children talk to LE. Ridiculous....and he and his lawyer are spouting they are doing everything to find her!!! Who did MP hang with when he was down there? Was the lock placed on the entrance to the underside of the house just a decoy or was something really going on there?

I agree there are pieces missing ....or just a twist that's waiting to be turned over. IMO

 

[glorias]

hollyblue, something you said just gave me an idea, total speculation: What if Gail wanted LE at the house when she returned on the 30th because she planned to drop the kids off and leave immediately, and wanted someone there to look after them until Matt arrived? That would explain why she asked Diane to call LE for her, because she didn't want to talk to LE about that on the phone in front of the kids.

I never thought about this before, but maybe she had the entire scenario planned out once something happened on the 29th/30th that made her go back to Signal Mountain. She wanted the police there for her kids while she drove off. In case anything happened to her, she deliberately left her credit card and driver's license so people would know she meant to return and to worry if she didn't.

 

[almino]

Good Morning fellow websleuthers. I have thought much about Gail's disappearance and tend to think first about foul play since things in the marriage were not on the up and up.

But I will take a moment and share something that is personally sad in my own life with a friend. My best friend from high school was in an abusive marriage and she would tell me and only a few others what was happening. She escaped with her kids with the help of church and I was very involved.

But then over time, she had so many plates spinning and would tell me these incredibly unbelievable things that were happening in her life. She thought there was a group at church banded against her. She said that at the one elders house she believes they were webcamming the conversation. Then in another office at church she saw wire running under a rug and thought they were capturing this conversation. She thought the youth leader was trying to get information from her kids. She would leave secret messages on a bulletin for the one pastor - she thought this pastor was taking on another job to pay her rent.

She was left go from her colleges classes for a season for what they cited as plagariasm (I couldn't imagine it wasn't a mistake), but then she went on to connect this incident with some major event in the newspaper that had nothing to with her.

Because I was her friend, it took me awhile to catch on and a week or so later I was sitting drinking coffee when it hit me, "o my goodness, she has paranoia!" Her other sibling had similar things and I thought she would be exempt.

Our conversations were constant rutts, stuck on a groove of a record. She would call me weekly/daily to see if I had told anybody and was afraid of people listening on the phone.

I checked with her church and none of it was true, and they had been seeing paranoia grow for a little while.

The long and short is that 2 years ago, I became "the enemy, too" and she has cut me off from herself and kids. It is so sad to me and I pray for her. But I have to be happy if she can hold down a job and support 4 kids. But still my heart is sad.

So, I know that the mental frame of mind can change, especially under stress. Now some of us wonder if things really were what she said they were in her marriage, because of her state of mind.

I'm not saying any of this is true of Gail, but I was thinking about several people thinking she had been acting strangely and not herself. Is it possible that under stress, the framework of her mind changed. And if you are a friend, you for awhile are just thinking, "gee my friend really has some hard things going on here". With me, I found out my friend's thoughts were not reality, they were perceived fears that had taken over into a paranoid stronghold.

Just some thoughts

 

[BeanE]

LE has never stated in the media that they talked to GP on Saturday.....is that the missing piece? Has/did Diane question them about that when she was there? What did my sister convey to you? Did she tell you about being scared and followed? Did she describe the vehicle? Give you plate #'s? Where did all these "followings" take place?

Diane said LE has never told her what was discussed in the GP/LE Apr 30 phone call.

Gail had called Diane, and was mighty upset, asked Diane to call LE, Diane did, LE called Gail. It makes sense to me that Diane and Gail would have talked again after that, but we don't have confirmation.

That's one of the things I have in mind in my 'upsetment' that nobody - (I'll say it again) including LE - looked for Gail on Saturday afternoon.

It makes sense that Diane would have tried to get hold of Gail. If she didn't, it makes sense that, knowing Gail was scared, knowing Gail thought she was being followed, knowing Gail had talked to LE, Diane would have called LE and said, "Hey! I'm the one called you to call my sister - you know, the one who's terrified and thinks she's being followed. Now I can't get hold of her! Can somebody go to the house & drive around the mountain & see if you can spot her? What if that person following her has harmed her?!?"

And here's where & why things break down for me. This is simple, logical sequence-of-events stuff.

This is where the red flags should have gone up, the red neon lights start flashing, the alarms have sounded, the BOLOs gone out. A BOLO is a simple thing. This is a sleepy little community, whoever was patrolling probably would have welcomed the boredom relief to go drive around and look for that red Jeep, that should have stuck out like a sore thumb, and we shouldn't all be here in this thread. Gail should have been home or with a friend by, say, 3 or 4 Sat afternoon.

Okay, I'm off that soap box, but I'm willing to hop back on it at the drop of a hat.

I also want to know why Gail was so afraid to stay at the lake house? She would retreat there in times of trouble and then within a few hours take off again. Did she hear something? Was she getting calls from someone?

I've wondered if the dogs were barking, and if that was unusual. I'd imagine it's pretty sleepy at the lake house. Could be a little party town, but I doubt it. So the dogs may have barked, and that may be unusual.

 

[glorias]

Diane said LE has never told her what was discussed in the GP/LE Apr 30 phone call.

Gail had called Diane, and was mighty upset, asked Diane to call LE, Diane did, LE called Gail. It makes sense to me that Diane and Gail would have talked again after that, but we don't have confirmation.

(snip)

That's one of the things I have in mind in my 'upsetment' that nobody - (I'll say it again) including LE - looked for Gail on Saturday afternoon.

Assuming LE called Gail while she was on the road to TN, then we do have confirmation Diane talked to her after that:

http://www.newschannel9.com/news/palmgren-1001216-nichols-last.html

Gail Palmgren's whereabouts are a mystery that has only been intensified by her last conversation with her sister Diane, moments before Palmgren was last seen.

We've always taken "moments before Palmgren was last seen" as about 12:15 when Susie was the last confirmed person to see Gail. FWIW, believe09 confirmed Gail had phone when she left the house.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6518079#post6518079"]TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #3 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


So it's of course possible Gail kept speaking to others besides Diane after the call around 12:15.

You said earlier I didn't understand you, so help me understand. Why do you think something happened to Gail right around that 12:15 sighting by Susie instead of possibly later in the day? Earlier, you said everyone should have been looking for Gail by 12:30 or 1:00 ([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6822280#post6822280"]link[/ame]), because she was already frightened and afraid of being followed, if I understand you correctly. Since 12:30 or 1:00 is only 15-45 minutes after Susie saw her, that implies an almost continuous contact between Gail and somebody was necessary. What is it you see in this case that makes you think Diane, LE, or anyone else knew Gail needed that kind of almost continuous contact?

I just don't quite understand why everybody, including Diane who had just spoken to her moments before, should have known by 12:30 that Gail needed help. I say that because, in my opinion, NOBODY knows that she needed help by then. If the hardware store and off-road trails sightings are correct, she didn't need help until the evening of the 30th.

And because we haven't been given much information, we don't really know who she called on the 30th. We only know about Diane at 6:30 AM and 12:15-ish because she told the media.

 

[believe09]

The more I hear AD talk about the preparations Gail was making to leave, the more I think that Gail didn't want Matt to drive her car alone because she had things stashed there. maybe PI reports, money, alternate cell phone, any number of things, and if she let him take t alone he could stop and and take h time searching.

Calling because he was intoxicated doesn't seem right. It not only would have made someone who was intoxicated mad, it would have involved the police and could have resulted in a public intoxication arrest/citation. We know that didn't happen, so I just don't see that fitting.

Sure, Gail could have called LE because she didnt want Matt to drive her vehicle because she was planning on heading for the hills at some point. TBH, it doesnt resonate with me which doesnt mean anything...just my two cents. The situation feels like something more to me-I personally cannot imagine calling LE to have them force my husband into my vehicle unless there was some other catalyst. I wish we could see the incident report, so until then all we have is guesses.