TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[glorias]

The GPS was an option in the 2010 Rubicon.

The interior is consistent with Jeep off-road options such as wash out floor pans with removable plugs and carpet. The Rubicon interior packages offer optional equipment such as a radio with 6.5-inch touch screen, GPS Navigation, 30 GB hard drive (4,250 song capacity), Uconnect™ Phone, Voice Command, SIRIUS Traffic™ and Audio Jack.

http://focusdailynews.com/rubicon-remains-perfect-choice-for-offroad-adventures-p2151-84.htm

Maybe Sleuthy1 can ask AD to to clarify if GP did have this option and purchased another, or if the factory GPS was installed, was it unabled, not activated, etc?? Where are you Sleuthy1?

Hopefully Sleuthy1 will see this. She would be the best person to ask about the GPS as she could probably find out info and clarify.

I think I recall Arlene saying she had the original GPS from the Jeep, that she took it when Gail removed it and replaced it with another one. It was in an interview, I think. Does anyone else remember that?

 

[Melodie]

Hopefully Sleuthy1 will see this. She would be the best person to ask about the GPS as she could probably find out info and clarify.

I think I recall Arlene saying she had the original GPS from the Jeep, that she took it when Gail removed it and replaced it with another one. It was in an interview, I think. Does anyone else remember that?

Yes, I think early on that was one of the first questions asked about this case. I believe the answer given was that there was not a GPS in the Jeep. If there was a factory installed GPS, at some point, for whatever reason, it was removed. If Gail purchased a portable GPS like a Tom Tom or Garmin, or something like that, it would be very easy, as with a cell phone to, throw it in the river or smash it to bits. I also wonder about these devices because we had a Garmin stolen from one of our vehicles while sitting in our driveway. We reported it to the Police, so if these things are so traceable, why couldn't they just find it? It would be pointless to destroy it after stealing it, so someone is out there enjoying our Garmin GPS without a worry in the world.

 

[fireflylink]

When the June 19 SMM interview came out, there was discussion about the box Arlene was talking about which starts right around here

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6


Personally, I don't know how accurate what SMM said is. She calls it a "black box" which I think confuses things, and I know back in June we were all wondering what she meant. GPS or the air bag data recorder? Later she says GPS, so was she talking about two different things?

To me, it sounds like Arlene has the original Jeep GPS unit and was with Gail when she bought a new one, which has been installed but LE cannot track it. Arlene says Matt told her that "the box" was in the garage -- I think she means the box the unit came in and not the unit itself, and he was going to get the serial number off the box (on the sticker that is on the outside of boxes of equipment like this) but never gave it to Arlene.

From there, it sounds like SMM and Arlene think the new GPS may not be traceable because it might have been removed at some point.

Just getting caught up on this, but let me try and eliminate some of the confusion:

1) GP had a portable GPS device for directions/travel, etc. When she upgraded to a different model, she gave the old one to AD.

2) The serial number/box (black box in the garage), is the cardboard box with the serial/model number sticker on it which could be used to track via the manufacturer; this was in the garage and was what AD had requested.

3) It is believed that anything trackable on the vehicle itself had already been removed.

Hope this helps, was making my head spin! :crazy:

 

[glorias]

Thank you fireflylink! That helps a ton.

 

[glorias]

BBM- Thinking, do we have a definite time AFTER the 12:15 sighting of GP making or rec'g a call? To date I can't recall that ever being stated? The calls to Diane, talking to LE, and the call w/Matt all could have occurred prior to her? dropping the kids off.

Is it possible GP could disable the GPS because she was worried about being tracked by MP?

I'm almost certain we don't have a definite time for any of those calls. We know she dropped the kids off about noon, both Susie Button and Matt said so. We know she left about 12:15 because Susie Button saw her. (The time and that it was Gail herself was confirmed by JBean quite a while ago, [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6577734#post6577734"]link here[/ame].)

From there, all we got were news article saying Diane was called "moments before" Gail was last seen by Susie Button. IIRC, Matt being called by Gail to say the kids were home alone is something a verified member told us, it hasn't been in the media yet.

As for the GPS being disabled, maybe she thought she was being tracked and didn't want the data recorded, or maybe she was going to meet someone she didn't want anyone to know about. I don't know much about GPS, but it sounds like from posts others have made that it's almost impossible to turn off the GPS entirely, that it still records some data even when it's "off". So no pings at all might mean it was damaged in an accident or something similar, or even removed completely and destroyed.

 

[BeanE]

Just getting caught up on this, but let me try and eliminate some of the confusion:

1) GP had a portable GPS device for directions/travel, etc. When she upgraded to a different model, she gave the old one to AD.

2) The serial number/box (black box in the garage), is the cardboard box with the serial/model number sticker on it which could be used to track via the manufacturer; this was in the garage and was what AD had requested.

3) It is believed that anything trackable on the vehicle itself had already been removed.

Hope this helps, was making my head spin! :crazy:

Thanks, firefly.

Do you know if the Jeep came with a factory installed GPS?

When you say anything trackable is believed to have been removed, do you mean before Gail disappeared? Is this believed because of the lack of pings, or because there was some conversation, e.g., Gail saying she was thinking of removing her GPS at some point?

Thanks!

 

[fireflylink]

Thank you fireflylink! That helps a ton.

You're welcome, glad to help!

 

[BeanE]

BBM- Thinking, do we have a definite time AFTER the 12:15 sighting of GP making or rec'g a call? To date I can't recall that ever being stated? The calls to Diane, talking to LE, and the call w/Matt all could have occurred prior to her? dropping the kids off.

Is it possible GP could disable the GPS because she was worried about being tracked by MP?

I really wish we had the sequence of the calls and Susie's sighting.

JBean posted that one call with Diane was about 12:15 or so. Don't know if that was before or after Susie's approximate 12:15 sighting. We need a sequence!
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6720263&postcount=306"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6[/ame]

 

[fireflylink]

Thanks, firefly.

Do you know if the Jeep came with a factory installed GPS?

When you say anything trackable is believed to have been removed, do you mean before Gail disappeared? Is this believed because of the lack of pings, or because there was some conversation, e.g., Gail saying she was thinking of removing her GPS at some point?

Thanks!

It is my understanding based on my own personal conversations, that what was believed to be a component of a factory installed GPS was removed from the vehicle prior to her disappearance (not by GP), and that a subscription-based GPS package was not active on the vehicle.

Personally, I can understand not activating a subscription with a fee when the Garmins and Magellan's can be carried in any vehicle you use in a multi-car household with no cost except the up front purchase price.

As for removing components from a vehicle, only a few reasons it might be feasible and I don't like any of those. IMO

ETA: BELOW (BBM) SNIPPED FROM GLORIAS LATER post and adding here for clarification in ONE place at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glorias
Wow. Does that mean Gail bought a GPS specifically to replace the one that was removed from her car?

NO, she already had the original handheld/portable prior to this. She simply purchased a new handheld/portable and gave her original handheld/portable to AD.

 

[glorias]

It is my understanding based on my own personal conversations, that what was believed to be a component of a factory installed GPS was removed from the vehicle prior to her disappearance (not by GP), and that a subscription-based GPS package was not active on the vehicle.

Personally, I can understand not activating a subscription with a fee when the Garmins and Magellan's can be carried in any vehicle you use in a multi-car household with no cost except the up front purchase price.

As for removing components from a vehicle, only a few reasons it might be feasible and I don't like any of those. IMO

Wow. Does that mean Gail bought a GPS specifically to replace the one that was removed from her car?

 

[fireflylink]

Wow. Does that mean Gail bought a GPS specifically to replace the one that was removed from her car?

NO, she already had the original handheld/portable prior to this. She simply purchased a new handheld/portable and gave her original handheld/portable to AD.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm still going with my original speculation...she was overcome in the driveway or garage. Gail not acknowledging Susie is part of my reasoning. Gail NOT dropping the kids off and someone else doing it....is just too hard to understand for me at this point. That would mean the children were terrorized by someone they didn't know...or being kept from telling who they may have felt comfortable with---under a ruse...yet are being made to keep it to themselves. I don't even want to go there. tbh

 

[Snowbunny]

I wish Gail's sister would make it public why Gail called her and asked her to have LE meet her at the house? That to me is key in this case. Susan stated that Gail was crying when she left the house. If we knew the answer to that we could probably piece this case together.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I really wish we had the sequence of the calls and Susie's sighting.

JBean posted that one call with Diane was about 12:15 or so. Don't know if that was before or after Susie's approximate 12:15 sighting. We need a sequence!
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

I agree. I've even considered the possibility that they occurred contemporaneously. Perhaps Gail had her phone on speaker mode and so from outside the car it didn't appear she was on the phone. She may have been intently listening to what her sister was saying and focusing less on Susie?

 

[glorias]

NO, she already had the original handheld/portable prior to this. She simply purchased a new handheld/portable and gave her original handheld/portable to AD.

Gotcha, thanks! The GPS Arlene is talking about is the handheld one.

The original factory-installed GPS you mentioned is believed to have had a component removed. I assume this means the unit was still there but disabled. Do you know if it would have appeared to be working or would it look like it had broken down? Just curious about that.

I don't mean to be irritating with this. I just want to clarify, and without having used GPS myself, doing Google searches only gets me so far.

 

[glorias]

I wish Gail's sister would make it public why Gail called her and asked her to have LE meet her at the house? That to me is key in this case. Susan stated that Gail was crying when she left the house. If we knew the answer to that we could probably piece this case together.

Diane said earlier that Gail wouldn't tell her why she was scared:

Gail Palmgren's whereabouts are a mystery that has only been intensified by her last conversation with her sister Diane, moments before Palmgren was last seen.

Palmgren wouldn’t say why she was scared but the Nichols made out this much, “She just thought she was being followed.”

It was a bizzare conversation and Diane wonders if it's in any way connected to Gail's husband, Matthew Palmgren.

http://m.newschannel9.com/news/palmgren-1001216-nichols-last.html

This is speculation, but I wonder if she didn't want to say too much to Diane while the kids were in the car and worry them. But not telling Diane why she wanted LE at the house must have made her request for Diane to call LE on her behalf pretty complicated.

 

[glorias]

I'm still going with my original speculation...she was overcome in the driveway or garage. Gail not acknowledging Susie is part of my reasoning. Gail NOT dropping the kids off and someone else doing it....is just too hard to understand for me at this point. That would mean the children were terrorized by someone they didn't know...or being kept from telling who they may have felt comfortable with---under a ruse...yet are being made to keep it to themselves. I don't even want to go there. tbh

I agree that Gail not dropping the kids off is really difficult to imagine. I've been going through older posts and was reminded that Gail also had the dogs with her on the trip as well as kids, so being taken over by someone when you have kids and dogs seems unlikely. If she was accosted, it was after she was alone, surely.

 

[fireflylink]

I'm still going with my original speculation...she was overcome in the driveway or garage. Gail not acknowledging Susie is part of my reasoning. Gail NOT dropping the kids off and someone else doing it....is just too hard to understand for me at this point. That would mean the children were terrorized by someone they didn't know...or being kept from telling who they may have felt comfortable with---under a ruse...yet are being made to keep it to themselves. I don't even want to go there. tbh

BBM
hollyblue, I have to agree and that has always been in the back of my head.

In a scenario where she chose to leave, these four things just keep jumping in my face:

1) She clearly and methodically planned and prepared for a departure. She placed special items and cash with those she felt she could trust. She made sure that they were not all in one location - diversified things important and necessary. She was taking action, reaching out to those close and preparing for legal maneuvers. She followed the "how-to's" for exiting right up to her disappearance.

Yet, she has never attempted to recover any of the items she so thoughtfully placed for safekeeping. She has never reached out to any of her "safe" people.

2) Her personal financial assets had not been transfered or moved to new accounts for safekeeping. PIN access, yes. But no funds removed. One of the last minute things to do when exiting would be to safeguard any personal retirement or inheritance. Do it too soon, you send up a red flag...do it quietly, only when "you on the way out the door" to avoid a clonflict.

She could have accessed those funds, transfered to new plans or arranged for wire transactions or distribution via the internet if she had to "run" quickly. She never did.

3) The kids...I don't see her "just dropping them off" without MP home if she was voluntarily leaving, especially considering the events of the past 24 hours. IMO, I would think she could have easily waited to make sure MP or SB was keeping an eye on the kids "while she ran to the store"...then not returning. I don't see her being comfortable just leaving them and not knowing how long it might be before MP returned.

4) With the exception of wanting to wait until the kids finished the school year, when she was at the lakehouse the night before, she had (or had access to) everything she had pre-planned for the exit. By returning to SM it seems she lost access to everything and everyone in her life. In the span of a few hours she went from an intelligent, prepared, motivated and careful person with two children...to an unacknowledged missing mother with nothing to show for her efforts except two little ones, family and friends wondering where their mother is.

 

[hollyblue]

I agree that Gail not dropping the kids off is really difficult to imagine. I've been going through older posts and was reminded that Gail also had the dogs with her on the trip as well as kids, so being taken over by someone when you have kids and dogs seems unlikely. If she was accosted, it was after she was alone, surely.

My current theory is with the kids and dogs in the house....or the dogs being just being turned loose on the property. They have labs (friendly) so I don't think they would pose a problem for someone hiding in the garage or the woods and then slipping into the jeep. But, you could be right. We don't even know if Gail got out of the jeep to go into the house.

 

[BeanE]

The calls and Susie sighting. My own recap, any part of which could be incorrect!

- Unknown day/time. Per his sworn affidavit, Gail and Matt talk. Matt proposes they meet back at the SM house. Unknown who called who.

- 6:30 Gail and Diane talk. Gail says she's going back to SM. Doesn't say why. Don't know if Diane asked why. Unknown if Gail had talked with Matt at this point.

- My personal speculation! During drive to SM, Gail called LE and asked them to meet her at SM house. They said no. This is the only reason I can think of why Gail would call Diane and ask her to call LE.

- During drive to SM. Gail calls Diane and asks her to call LE and tell them to meet her at SM house. Doesn't say why. Gail, per Arlene, begs and begs and begs and begs (I'm pretty sure it was 4 begs in 2nd Jammer interview that Arlene said).

- During drive to SM. Diane calls SMPD. Unknown if she asked them to meet Gail at the house or asked them to call Gail or what.

- Unknown if during drive to SM, or when Gail got to house. SMPD and Gail talk. Unknown who called who. Per Clive on FB, Gail tells SMPD she's okay. Unknown where he got that info. Per article, the contents of this phone call have not been revealed, even to Diane.

- Time unknown. Gail arrives at SM house.

- Time unknown. Gail calls Matt and says kids are at the house and she's leaving.

- Approx 12:15. Gail calls Diane and says she's scared. Doesn't say what she's scared of except Diane makes out that she thinks she's being followed. Unknown if Diane calls LE again.

- Approx 12:15. Susie sees Gail driving away. Susie runs up hill to say hi. Gail doesn't acknowledge Susie.

- Approx 12:25. Matt arrives home after running errands with his mother for an unknown period of time.