TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[BeanE]

Glorias, per your question:

"Odd. Was that Matt's brother or Gail's brother KN? I ask only because I've heard similar sentiments attributed to KN and his wife, too."

On the BGHN fb page it was definitely K & S Palmgren posting after having been in some sort of conversation/forum where CB was involved. You can see their full names on their posts clearly on yesterday's evening postings. CB welcomed him as MP's brother and said he does want to hear from them, too, and understands that he would want to "stick up" for his brother.

BBM. almino, that makes it sound, to me, a whole lot more friendly than it was. From my perspective, Keith was treated deplorably by CB and others.

That being said, I hope we're not going to bring the trashing and bashing of the family - on either side - here. All the family members are suffering.

My opinion.

 

[Annie_61]

Matt's PI was hired specifically to help find Gail - this has been stated by Matt's attorneys in the media several times. Because of one of AZlawyer's answers in Gail's legal/law question thread, I'm led to believe those statements hold some legal weight.

Based on what AZlawyer said, I *think* ordinarily when a PI is working with an attorney, as Matt's PI is, their work, including information they uncover, is considered 'work product', and therefore governed by that state's laws on attorney/client confidentiality. That's covered by what I've seen referred to as 'work product privilege'. I *think* that is basically governed by what attorneys have to disclose, and when they have to disclose it (such as discovery laws).

**But**, again, based on what AZlawyer said, because it's been stated Matt's PI was hired to help find Gail, I think his work, or some portion thereof, under certain conditions, may *not* be covered by the work product privelege.

Your question is a good one, and I am also interested in a 'real' answer, rather than just my own amateur opinions. So I hope you will post it the legal/law questions thread we have for Gail's case, where a 'real' attorney will answer you, and we can all learn about it.

AZlawyer is answering our legal/law questions for Gail's case in this thread:
TN TN -Legal Questions for our Verified Attorneys - Gail Palmgren case - *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

thank you for that BeanE, here in Australia we don't seem to hear about PI's as much, so I had no idea about how they worked. I even googled PI's in my home state and only came up with 6 results :blushing:

 

[Oriah]

Not trying to speak for AZ, but she'd just come to this case, and I think she was saying that was the only article she could find at that time.

There are other articles that list the reasons for the termination. My impression from the articles has never been that Matt was fired unfairly because his wife went missing. My impression has been that Matt was fired because he misused company time, money, emails, equipment, travel funds, was not working at times when he was being paid to work, etc.

That was my impression as well, Bean.

I guess I can't help but wonder about the time frame of all of these events occurring within such a short period of time- and in relation to Gail missing. Kwim? :waitasec:

Would Gail have known about Matt's upcoming termination?

Might that explain the acct situation?

 

[BeanE]

That was my impression as well, Bean.

I guess I can't help but wonder about the time frame of all of these events occurring within such a short period of time- and in relation to Gail missing. Kwim? :waitasec:

Would Gail have known about Matt's upcoming termination?

Might that explain the acct situation?

Good question, Oriah! Matt wasn't put on admin leave until after Gail went missing, but I can tell you from experience that investigations into employees can take many months, and the higher the level employee, the longer the investigations can take.

Once the investigation starts, at some point, most often, the employee is talked to, and even given written documentation to sign to ensure they have been properly notified of their infractions and understand what is expected of them going forward, have time to change their ways, and there can be several similar go-rounds with reviews of their performance and behavior, and further advisement of changes they need to make.

It's quite possible that BCBS started investigating Matt some time prior to Gail's disappearance, and had counseled him, and that Gail knew about this.

On the other hand, sometimes, if infractions are very serious, and there is plenty of documentation to support the action, employees are not counseled first, and the termination can happen quickly.

Perhaps the reason Matt returned from the trip early, if true as reported, is because BCBS found out what happened at the conference, and pulled the plug so to speak. He may have come home that Thursday or early Friday (both have been reported) and told Gail. That could even be the basis of the argument at the SMPD that Friday.

Arlene was reading from the police reports yesterday, including that Friday's, but I don't recall her reading out what the argument was about.

 

[Shelby1]

I think I know what the confusion is regarding the search of the lake house.

- It's been reported in several articles that the lake house and property it's on was searched during the week of May 11. There's even a video with a LEO talking about it in a manner that indicates he was there.

- Now along comes approx June 8, and we've got the search agreement, which includes these properties:

The consent order lists five locations for the search:
The Palmgren family residence at 40 Ridgerock Drive, Signal Mountain
439 Easy St., Wetumpka, Ala.
481 Jordan Lake Road, Titus Ala.
A public storage unit in Red Bank
Matt Palmgren’s mother’s residence in Chattanooga

Those two AL properties are reported now as not yet having been searched, but planned to be searched... soon (no date).

- I think the search during the week of May 11 was more of a cursory search, e.g., they didn't take or copy documents, spray Luminol, dust for fingerprints, those sorts of things, and I think those sorts of things are planned to be done under the search agreement... soon.


So... everybody's right in this. The lake house both has, and has not, been searched. Just depends what kind of search you're talking about.


ETA:
Alabama police join search for missing mother
http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14698557
WRCB – Updated: May 23, 2011 7:29 PM EDT

Police in Wetumpka tell Eyewitness News they have searched the Palmgren’s lake house for clues to her disappearance.


A Missing Woman Investigation Leads Tennessee Police to Elmore County
WAKA - Thursday, 19 May 2011 10:57 pm
"Basically they just got with a couple of our investigators and went to the residence that this family owns here in Elmore County off of Easy Street. Just got a layout of the residence and the land," said Elmore County's Deputy Chief, Ricky Lowery.

Deputy Chief Lowery says they looked for Palmgren's car or any signs of foul play at her Easy Street home, but nothing was found.

It's the video at the bottom of this page that has the LEO. I don't know who he is.

BBM

Why rush? I think they should wait a couple more months before moseying on over there. <insert major sarcasm>

 

[almino]

BeanE regarding:

"That being said, I hope we're not going to bring the trashing and bashing of the family - on either side - here. All the family members are suffering."

I've seen you write this before and I don't know if you are admonishing me or not for simply posting what I read last evening and what KP posted. THAT was interesting to me and I thought people here would find it interesting.

I am simply reporting, you bring up bashing over at BGHN. Obviously you are in the know, more than I am of what happened at BGHN, but I still think it is okay to cite something from that site here if it is an "insight".

 

[Annie_61]

Another question to those who are far more experience at this than I am, why can we find records of the disputes in SM between GP & MP where 911 was called and yet nobody can post a report on GP phoning 911 regarding the couple trying to take her children. Would there not be some sort of record the same as in SM when someone reports something?

They said the wife took Ms. Palmgren to a store and they became separated. Ms. Palmgren then called the police on the couple, claiming they were trying to take her children away from them.


Again I apologize for my ignorance on these subject but I am so new to all this and on the other side of the world. I thank everyone who has provided answers to my questions.

 

[BeanE]

BeanE regarding:

"That being said, I hope we're not going to bring the trashing and bashing of the family - on either side - here. All the family members are suffering."

I've seen you write this before and I don't know if you are admonishing me or not for simply posting what I read last evening. I have not started that here, I am sharing what I posted and what was posted back by KP. THAT was interesting to me and I thought people here would find it interesting.

I am simply reporting, you bring up bashing over at BGHN. Obviously you are in the know, more than I am of what happened at BGHN, but I still think it is okay to cite something from that site here if it is an "insight".

Nope, not admonishing you at all, just springboarding off your post. It was a general statement of my hopes. Things sometimes bleed from FB and other net places over to here on these cases, and it's a disappointment to me when they do. I was expressing my hopes that it doesn't happen in this case. It wasn't at all directed to you or anyone personally.

 

[believe09]

I am glad that DNA samples were provided, in spite of Hoss' allusion to that being halted by Gail's siblings court action.

I also like the theory that Gail may have been on to the possibility that her husband was in trouble at work for misuse of work property.

 

[JayCeeVee]

I am somewhat confused over the BCBS firing as well.

AZlawyer stated in the Q&A attorney thread that the only MSM article found was the one stating MP was fired b/c of 'the distraction' at work due to Gail's disappeance.

Other reports say misuse of property- and then other reports say misconduct.

Why would a company such as BCBS fire an employee because their spouse has disappeared... and the other spouse was distraught and preoccupied by that??

I would think they would cut their employee a break there- a leave, or something- not fire them (?)

Unless there was a lot more known about the circumstances? Just thinking out loud, and trying to figure out what the heck is going on here.

Gail, where are you??

I believe BCBS had their ducks in a row prior to firing MP. He and his honey were at a company meeting in Minnesota and NEITHER attended sessions but I would imagine improprieties from within and the level that both were had a lot to do with it also. Had he been forthright regarding his wife's disappearance from the beginning certainly would have helped his credibility also.

 

[Some1Nose]

I've been pondering a few things:

1) Why did MP closely monitor GP's daily activities when he was the one philandering? Could it be because he is the one with the mental issues...?

2) Why did MP, and the other main players, that we are aware of, in this case, lawyer-up with criminal defense attorneys so quickly if they truly believe that GP just took off somewhere?

3) Why didn't/doesn't MP show much concern for GP's disappearance? I come up with three possibilities: a) sociopathic b) he knows what happened
c) he just truly doesn't care (he sure seemed to care about her money, though!)

4) How can MP not be considered a suspect when he hasn't even been officially interviewed by LE, yet, let alone his children, and other family members and friends not being interviewed, as yet, either?

ALL IMOO

 

[Emeralgem]

I believe BCBS had their ducks in a row prior to firing MP. He and his honey were at a company meeting in Minnesota and NEITHER attended sessions but I would imagine improprieties from within and the level that both were had a lot to do with it also. Had he been forthright regarding his wife's disappearance from the beginning certainly would have helped his credibility also.

One question.. IF they were in Minnesoto attending a conference, who purchased the car in Pennsylvania that week or am I misunderstanding some facts concerning this case? Did MP and TH fly to Pa instead of Minnesoto or did they fly out to Minnesoto and then fly to Pa?

Also, JayCeeVee do you have any information as to when the conference started and when the conference in Minnesoto was supposed to end? My understanding is he was due to fly back in to Chattanooga late on Friday night but arrived via TH (automobile) around noon on Friday the 29th..

ETA...OK I realize that was more than one question

 

[Melodie]

I am somewhat confused over the BCBS firing as well.

AZlawyer stated in the Q&A attorney thread that the only MSM article found was the one stating MP was fired b/c of 'the distraction' at work due to Gail's disappeance.

Other reports say misuse of property- and then other reports say misconduct.

Why would a company such as BCBS fire an employee because their spouse has disappeared... and the other spouse was distraught and preoccupied by that??

I would think they would cut their employee a break there- a leave, or something- not fire them (?)Unless there was a lot more known about the circumstances? Just thinking out loud, and trying to figure out what the heck is going on here.

Gail, where are you??

From my experience, if a company sends you, all expenses paid, to a conference, barring an emergency, you are expected to attend. It is very easy for your absence to be noted as there may be other employees from the same company there, too. The penalty for this could very well be termination and remember, TN is an at will state, so they don't have to give a reason but this is a perfectly acceptable one. At the least, if he wasn't fired, his reputation with his employer would be seriously tarnished. He had only worked there for 2 yrs. This company has over 60,000 job applications on file. In TN, a job with this company is highly desired. They don't put up with shenanigans at any level because they don't have to. This is one fact that has really troubled me because this is common knowledge. Why risk serious repercussions with your employer? To spend time with someone you have been having an affair with for months? I don't buy it. In my opinion, there was something very important going on for him to just skip that conference. And the plans for him to fly home were scrapped and he instead went with TH to buy a new car and drive back to TN? This has seemed suspicious to me from the beginning. All of this is my opinion.:twocents:

 

[Sleuthy1]

From this article, what jumped out at me was "Matthew Palmgren has submitted DNA, consented to property searches and lost his job over his wife's disappearance. He has not been charged with a crime."

Interesting how Gail is presented as the cause of MP's problems. She did NOT cause him to lose his job. His impropriety and dishonesty did.

Of interest, I posted this at the BGHN on facebook and MP's brother KP was responding to posts over there. You may want to scroll through there to glean his response to things. He basically said we are throwing stones at his brother and wonders, "how does MPs being fired by BCBS help the children." IMO, MP should have thought about that question long before he crossed the bridge in misusing BCBS funds and equipment. This has nothing to do with the children, and I don't think that trump card can be used now!

I've been pondering a few things:

1) Why did MP closely monitor GP's daily activities when he was the one philandering? Could it be because he is the one with the mental issues...?

2) Why did MP, and the other main players, that we are aware of, in this case, lawyer-up with criminal defense attorneys so quickly if they truly believe that GP just took off somewhere?

3) Why didn't/doesn't MP show much concern for GP's disappearance? I come up with three possibilities: a) sociopathic b) he knows what happened
c) he just truly doesn't care (he sure seemed to care about her money, though!)

4) How can MP not be considered a suspect when he hasn't even been officially interviewed by LE, yet, let alone his children, and other family members and friends not being interviewed, as yet, either?

ALL IMOO

:twocents:MP's brother KP and his wife SP have been on the BGHN page bright and early claiming that it is AD that should be considered a suspect/person of interest and not their brother MP. They stated that AD has not been cooperating at all with the police and is in possession of evidence that their brother requested be returned over 1 month ago. So in their eyes, AD is exhibiting suspicious behavior and is not been cooperating at all with law enforcement.:waitasec: I had to laugh (although it really is not at all funny) but AD is having a copy of the DVR's hard drive made by Elmore County Sheriff's office to give to Hamilton County's Sheriff's office because she has faith and trust in her local officials and has very little, if any at all in the Hamilton County Sheriff's Official(we won't even mention Signal Mountain guys and Tizzio). Anyway, my point being is...they consider AD a person of interest and say she has not cooperated with LE at all. Are they in their right minds? I mean really ....did they actually throw that out there?:twocents::banghead:

 

[believe09]

Has AD cooperated with LE Sleuthy? I mean, she would be subject to LDT and interviews much like MP. LE has to rule out everyone who is close to GP-it is SOP. It isnt a big deal and is part of any investigation.

AD hasnt turned over the DVR yet? I have been away-I figured that she would have done that to propel the investigation forward at this point. *shrug.*

 

[BeanE]

Has AD cooperated with LE Sleuthy? I mean, she would be subject to LDT and interviews much like MP. LE has to rule out everyone who is close to GP-it is SOP. It isnt a big deal and is part of any investigation.

AD hasnt turned over the DVR yet? I have been away-I figured that she would have done that to propel the investigation forward at this point. *shrug.*

believe09, would it be possible to have a separate thread in the PL for the FB stuff as we've done on other cases?

 

[believe09]

believe09, would it be possible to have a separate thread in the PL for the FB stuff as we've done on other cases?

I will run it up the flag pole!

 

[Emeralgem]

Has AD cooperated with LE Sleuthy? I mean, she would be subject to LDT and interviews much like MP. LE has to rule out everyone who is close to GP-it is SOP. It isnt a big deal and is part of any investigation.

AD hasnt turned over the DVR yet? I have been away-I figured that she would have done that to propel the investigation forward at this point. *shrug.*

Has MP taken a LDT with LE? IMO..All MP has done is hide behind his attorneys..And their actions from what has been revealed and their refusal to answer any questions presented to them is suspect to say the least...JMHO

 

[believe09]

Has MP taken a LDT with LE? IMO..All MP has done is hide behind his attorneys..And their actions from what has been revealed and their refusal to answer any questions presented to them is suspect to say the least...JMHO

Oh believe me I agree. But that isnt the yardstick AD should use, I would think. I am not saying I even slightly agree that she is a POI or a prospective POI. She has a lot of inside knowledge that she is alleging-hopefully she has ruled herself out so no one will spend any time wondering.

 

[carolinagirl56]

Good question, Oriah! Matt wasn't put on admin leave until after Gail went missing, but I can tell you from experience that investigations into employees can take many months, and the higher the level employee, the longer the investigations can take.

Once the investigation starts, at some point, most often, the employee is talked to, and even given written documentation to sign to ensure they have been properly notified of their infractions and understand what is expected of them going forward, have time to change their ways, and there can be several similar go-rounds with reviews of their performance and behavior, and further advisement of changes they need to make.

It's quite possible that BCBS started investigating Matt some time prior to Gail's disappearance, and had counseled him, and that Gail knew about this.

On the other hand, sometimes, if infractions are very serious, and there is plenty of documentation to support the action, employees are not counseled first, and the termination can happen quickly.

Perhaps the reason Matt returned from the trip early, if true as reported, is because BCBS found out what happened at the conference, and pulled the plug so to speak. He may have come home that Thursday or early Friday (both have been reported) and told Gail. That could even be the basis of the argument at the SMPD that Friday.

Arlene was reading from the police reports yesterday, including that Friday's, but I don't recall her reading out what the argument was about.

Many of these large companies have policies in place regarding dating in the workplace. It seems that is the a general rule that you can date within the company outside your area, but not a direct report. From what I hear, TH was a direct report to MP. I think that may be where the line was crossed and BCBS started investigating.