TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[happy409]

Even if you have a PO Box, will the post officer still come to the home with a certified letter?

I would think if it was in another city, they probably do not have an association with a home address. Also no, if it is on the mountain. They leave a notice in the PO Box and you have to pick it up at the window. I have both, and they keep them separate (street vs. PO Box mail) even though they know me.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Irish, not really replying to you, just springboarding. I have noticed several places around the net where it is being questioned if these cases are related. I don't see any possible way, could you explain to me why people think this?

I'm sure in a missing person's case where all possibilities are being considered, including foul play, it's probably SOP to look at other cases of missing persons and other open homicides and try to see if there are any connections.

This woman and Gail did not seem to have a lot in common, and Gail didn't even live on the mountain in 2004, but it's possible they could have both come into contact with a person who had ill intent. From what I understand this is not an area where the murder rate is high or where people go missing often, voluntarily or otherwise.

There is a name mentioned in the WCRB article I linked above, and interestingly enough that individual was arrested this week (see mug shot here):

http://www.dunlaptattler.com/?p=11445

Assuming it's the same person, but it's the same name and Dunlap is close to Signal Mountain.

Could this be the source of the new information on the old case?

ETA: He was not arrested this week, but last month. It clearly says 6-3-11, and in my head that somehow translated to this week. You know what that means - time to get some sleep! Sorry for the confusion, but I don't think it changes much anyhow. It could still be the impetus for the new info on the old case.

 

[confused]

http://mapq.st/pjPumL


For those interested... It is quite possible to reach Cash Canyon Road from Suck Creek Road by boat...

Thanks for the map. Did I miss something about Suck creek Road, boats, etc.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I would think if it was in another city, they probably do not have an association with a home address. Also no, if it is on the mountain. They leave a notice in the PO Box and you have to pick it up at the window. I have both, and they keep them separate (street vs. PO Box mail) even though they know me.

Would LE be able to access the PO Box? Would they need MP's permission? Would MP be able to access the PO Box? If nobody can access it, is it possible that a notice has been sent and is just sitting there?

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I remember something about Matt saying she had gone away before but always stayed in touch with the kids. I don't remember the coming back part. Do you remember where you saw or heard that? Article, video, forum discussion, interview, etc?

Only that MP never said in his filings that she said "I'm not coming back," and I'm sure if she had said that, he would have indicated that since it would have bolstered his case. Also, he reported her missing after 48 hours. If someone said "I'm leaving and I'm not coming back" I don't think you would report them missing after only 48 hours, since they pretty much told you they had no intentions of being around.

 

[confused]

Only that MP never said in his filings that she said "I'm not coming back," and I'm sure if she had said that, he would have indicated that since it would have bolstered his case. Also, he reported her missing after 48 hours. If someone said "I'm leaving and I'm not coming back" I don't think you would report them missing after only 48 hours, since they pretty much told you they had no intentions of being around.

This doesn't have anything to do with anything, I just thought it was funny to see someone post the bolded part...everyone has screamed about the 48 hour wait and how long that is.

Forgive me, it's late and I am WIDE awake. :crazy:

 

[hollyblue]

Has anyone else seen this today? It is rather off-topic and concerns the murder of another woman in the area from 2004, but there is a search going on near Signal Mt on Cash Canyon Road for "more remains."

Chattanoogan 7-15: Investigators Looking Into New Leads, Possible Additional Bodies, In 2004 Murder Case

The reason I bring this up is that David Hoss is mentioned in the article. He found the body of the missing woman! I had never heard this before - I didn't follow the case.

Authorities said, "A ground search is being conducted of the area where Melissa Ward’s remains were located in December 2004. Interviews with persons of interest are being conducted by investigators in an attempt to bring closure to this active homicide investigation."

The body had been found by attorney Bryan Hoss in a remote area off Cash Canyon Road.

I just think if a body has been hidden somewhere before, it might be a place where a body could be hidden now. :twocents:

This might also give us an insight into how a search is being handled in this area in the even that more clues to Gail's disappearance ever surface. I know the local LE gives many people a headache, but I think they do know how to handle this type of investigation. And it should give people hope that justice delayed might not be a lack of justice:

Times Free Press 7/15: Hamilton County Deputies Search for Remains

On Wednesday, investigators moved into the densely wooded area toward the river with prisoners in tow to clear brush away. It’s unclear how long the search will continue, said Hamilton County Capt. Bill Johnson, who oversees the investigations division.

University of Tennessee forensic anthropologists in Knoxville have been called and may be brought into the investigation, he said.

“We just put them on standby to let them know that we are going to reopen this investigation. We’re going to move into this area and conduct a ground search,” Johnson said. “If we do find any human remains, we want them to come down and help us methodically go through them.”

Ward was reported missing on Nov. 2, 2004. Two months later, her body was found by local defense attorney Bryan Hoss when he was looking at a home to purchase near Cash Canyon Road.

Here's a map showing the area. Not too far from Raccoon Mtn that we had discussed earlier. How dense it all is. Noticed the difference in info in the articles. Chatt has her body was found 1 mo later on Dec 5, 2004. Cupp stated she was murdered and the probable motive was the company she was in with. Prostitutes and drugs...were previous arrests.

TFP states it was 2 mos after she was reported missing on Nov 2, 2004, Johnson declined to speculate on a motive and the COD was stated as unknown by the ME.

What a coinkydink....Hoss found her.

I have many thoughts on this cold case, but the first was deflection, the second-- someone doesn't like holding on to secrets any longer.

[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1580+cash+canyon+rd,+chattanooga,+tn&ll=35.073841,-85.35656&spn=0.137961,0.21904&t=h&z=12"]1580 cash canyon rd, chattanooga, tn - Google Maps[/ame]

 

[happy409]

BBM..Yeah..Prentive Cooper- Suck Creek Mtn with a fine tooth comb...JMHO

You're right Em! Wondering if you still have that intuition GP is somewhere right around here??

IMHO - Prentice Cooper obviously encompasses much of the mountain, basically. I previously wondered about CC's big fork recollection and realized that one part of Big Fork road comes off near her property and heads up the side of Signal from Whitwell. It's a long road, but ends up around where she said things were. Therefore, whoever was at Big Fork could very easily drive back down the back side of the mountain and never go through town. Interestingly, Big Fork road comes out near Suck Creek as well from another direction!?!? Hmmm...

Oriah...are these the copper mines near or around this route that you recall?? This appears to be near the end of Edward's Point Road (and the north end of the mountain overlooking Suck Creek (as the bird flies, since I don't think you can see it from there).

Edwards's Point - Latitude. 35.14833°, Longitude. -85.37028° , Elevation. 566m
Big Government Mine - Latitude. 35.145°, Longitude. -85.37778°
Barnes Mine - Latitude. 35.14833°, Longitude. -85.37833°
Backett and Pickett Mines - Latitude. 35.16194°, Longitude. -85.37583°
Doc Spangle Mine - Latitude. 35.16667°, Longitude. -85.35139°
Dill Mine - Latitude. 35.16583°, Longitude. -85.335°


Road trip!

 

[hollyblue]

Ummm...some big leaps here!

When my husband changes his phone, we all get new phones too. SOP for some reason I cannot ever fathom, except they usually have a 2 for 1 deal, then throw in another for a discount and........abracadabra, new phones all around and 100's of badly spent (IMO and I'm in the minority!) dollars later we emerge from the verizon store suitably tech'd-up.

Matt needed a new phone (for any number of reasons) and wanted one for his daughter with GPS etc. (who either didn't have one, or else had an old one with no GPS) and there was no doubt a deal to update his son's (if he even did so). I'll back up Sleuthy1 here, in that there was no number change for Matt's son, and am not so sure about the phone change for him either....

There are so many mysteries about Gail's disappearance, but I'm not convinced this is one of them...!

As long as LE can access the phone records from Matt's and his son's old phone, I don't see it being a problem. Unless LE needed the phone for certain info...and they are no longer available. Wonder if they donated or just tossed them? I'm no Verizon or AT & T Mobile geek, but wouldn't the sims card from the old phone just be installed into the new unit? imo

 

[Emeralgem]

Thanks for the map. Did I miss something about Suck creek Road, boats, etc.

I don't know have you? I do recall reading about a search at the river on Suck Creek Road.. Also, IIRC something about MP and a boat has been mentioned in this case too...

 

[hollyblue]

I know what a pay for click blog is, but "that Hoffman woman" stuff seemed like a personal thing that I don't really want to get in to.

If I'm allowed to say this, a mod told me the link was fine, so I'm leaving it so everyone can make their own decision. FWIW, I suspect the link is listing Gail erroneously; the three women the governor has set up a reward for do not currently include Gail, according to the other articles out there right now. But it's the weekend so maybe there's an update coming on Monday.

Her article is a little hard to understand.....that's why I ask about $amount of the reward. Wasn't too clear.

There is one "paid blogger" thru the Examiner, who I think is pretty good and she has "reported" on Gail's case previously. I even think Trisha, the owner here, has given her the thumbs up, IIRC. Big on reporting DV issues and missing/disappeared women. imo

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ing-husband-co-worker-terminated-at-bluecross

 

[confused]

I don't know have you? I do recall reading about a search at the river on Suck Creek Road.. Also, IIRC something about MP and a boat has been mentioned in this case too...

Yep, I remember that, but what does that have to do with Cave Canyon Road? That's the road from the Ward case not the Palmgrem case. I just don't get any connection.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Am I the only one that thinks this may not be coincidence?

Is it possible that:

1) The recent attention on GP's case caused someone to have an attack of conscience about this old case and come forward with information?

2) The police have a POI in this old case and realized that person may have some remote connection to Gail or Matt?

3) Other?

I thought the same thing, plus the headline was vague - just a search for remains. I had to read the article to figure out whose remains they were talking about!

If they've heard talk about a place where bodies were being dumped even now, then it would explain them bringing prisoners out to haul away brush in the middle of a heat wave!

Also, since they allegedly haven't found any new remains, why would they go ahead and have the archaeology team on stand-by? That set off my hinky-meter. I think they are searching for something specific. But what?

When I saw that Hoss was involved I nearly flipped out. That might or might not be a coincidence, but it sure is rather strange.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

This doesn't have anything to do with anything, I just thought it was funny to see someone post the bolded part...everyone has screamed about the 48 hour wait and how long that is.

Forgive me, it's late and I am WIDE awake. :crazy:

I cracked up when I read this, because as I was typing that post I wondered to myself if you might say that.... Shows how much time we've both spent on this thread!

To be clear, I think if someone said 'I'm out, done, finito, bye-bye' being gone for 48 hours wouldn't be a big deal since they told you not to expect them back. Just as if I said I was going on a 5 day cruise I wouldn't expect anyone to report me missing after 48 hours.

However, if someone doesn't say they're leaving permanently and doesn't take most of what they own, and according to MP is not emotionally well, I do think I might have become concerned before 48 hours.

 

[hollyblue]

http://mapq.st/pjPumL


For those interested... It is quite possible to reach Cash Canyon Road from Suck Creek Road by boat...

Thanks Em. Too, I just noticed from your map that Cash Canyon Road is more or less just like Suck Creek Road, but on the opposite side of he river---only more remote? You can access CCR from SCR...right....near Marion Co line? Is there a bridge there? TIA

 

[Emeralgem]

Yep, I remember that, but what does that have to do with Cave Canyon Road? That's the road from the Ward case not the Palmgrem case. I just don't get any connection.

You mean Cash Canyon Road? I don't know what it has to do with Gail but IF we stay tuned we may just find out..One way or the other...JMHO

 

[ThoughtFox]

Thanks for the map. Did I miss something about Suck creek Road, boats, etc.

There was a River search on May 24th - you can watch the video on WRCB. It was near a boat ramp on Suck Creek Road.

Cash Canyon Road where police are searching now is on Moccasin Bend just across the River from Suck Creek Road.

It's all the same general area just below Signal Point.

From the Media Thread Page 2:

WRCB: River Search for Missing Woman's Jeep Turns Up Nothing (with Video)

Each year, vehicles are pulled from a portion of the Tennessee River referred to as Suck Creek. It sits at the foot of Signal Mountain, where Palmgren was last seen, so investigators say it was worth searching.

"We didn't see anything we could dive for," said dive team member John Scruggs, "if there was anything here we hadn't seen in the past we would dive it, but right now we're just looking at wet rock."

Crews used highly accurate side-scan sonar to navigate the 50 foot waters Tuesday morning. The search lasted two hours and covered a quarter mile stretch of the river. Electronic images returned parts of vehicles, some 30 years old, but not Palmgren's Jeep Rubicon.[/QUOTE]

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I don't know have you? I do recall reading about a search at the river on Suck Creek Road.. Also, IIRC something about MP and a boat has been mentioned in this case too...

I think they searched Suck Creek thinking it could have been possible for a vehicle have an accident and wind up in there. I didn't get the impression at the time that the search had anything to do with any theory about a boat, but I could be wrong.

I've heard this referred to as a creek and also a river. Is this even a navigable body of water? How big is MP's boat? Is it like a row boat or a pontoon boat or a speed boat or what? Maybe it was just my own head, but I was picturing a larger craft that I wouldn't think would be what you would use in a creek or small river.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Well, now I'm up too. I need assistance in showing a map.

Could someone please show a map of the residence of the person of interest named today in the 2006 case -- 3814 Taft Highway, Dunlap, TN (I think that's correct) AND show the distance/route to (l) Big Fork Road, and (2) the Palmgren's St. Ives residence.

Thanks for the help.

I see Sleuthy has posted the maps. Truly, none of those places is very far. It's all the same area. Prentice Cooper where Big Fork Road is on what we call the "back" of the Mountain (facing Sequatchie County, not Chattanooga and the River). Just beyond Prentice Cooper in the Sequatchie River Valley is Dunlap.

 

[happy409]

Would LE be able to access the PO Box? Would they need MP's permission? Would MP be able to access the PO Box? If nobody can access it, is it possible that a notice has been sent and is just sitting there?

Unsure of the legal ramifications. If the key was at home, MP found it, he has the COA knowing the PO Box number, so either he went to the PO Box to see if something was there or LE may have inquired. Maybe someone with PO or LE experience would know for sure.