TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

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ThoughtFox I know you weren't responding to me but thanks for clearing that up....obviously if Suck Creek has a boat ramp it would be considered navigable.

Still wondering about the size of the Palmgren's boat....
 
Irish_Eyes said:
I cracked up when I read this, because as I was typing that post I wondered to myself if you might say that....:) Shows how much time we've both spent on this thread!

To be clear, I think if someone said 'I'm out, done, finito, bye-bye' being gone for 48 hours wouldn't be a big deal since they told you not to expect them back. Just as if I said I was going on a 5 day cruise I wouldn't expect anyone to report me missing after 48 hours.

However, if someone doesn't say they're leaving permanently and doesn't take most of what they own, and according to MP is not emotionally well, I do think I might have become concerned before 48 hours.
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Glad you caught my humor.... I understand what you are saying, and that is the reason that I have always thought probably either Gail told him or the kids that she was going back to the lake. It would explain why he didn't think she was missing for those 48 hours.
 
Emeralgem said:
You mean Cash Canyon Road? I don't know what it has to do with Gail but IF we stay tuned we may just find out..One way or the other...JMHO
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Yes, I do mean Cash Canyon, thank you!

I will be staying tuned!
 
Irish_Eyes said:
I think they searched Suck Creek thinking it could have been possible for a vehicle have an accident and wind up in there. I didn't get the impression at the time that the search had anything to do with any theory about a boat, but I could be wrong.

I've heard this referred to as a creek and also a river. Is this even a navigable body of water? How big is MP's boat? Is it like a row boat or a pontoon boat or a speed boat or what? Maybe it was just my own head, but I was picturing a larger craft that I wouldn't think would be what you would use in a creek or small river.
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I don't think MPs boat would work there, but Suck Creek runs directly into the TN River and there is a boat ramp there I believe.

Most of it is like a wild rocky river. The water is probably lower in the summer, but recently we've had heavy rains. It's mostly for kayaks and canoes when the water is high.

(Where Suck Creek gets it's name: When the River was higher before TVA built the series of Dams, the fast-moving water of this creek ran into the River and created a dangerous whirlpool called "The Suck" because it would suck boats under. )

Pictures: Flickr

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pNJ2jVASHI&feature=related"]‪Suck Creeking‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]​
 
happy409 said:
Unsure of the legal ramifications. If the key was at home, MP found it, he has the COA knowing the PO Box number, so either he went to the PO Box to see if something was there or LE may have inquired. Maybe someone with PO or LE experience would know for sure.
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:twocents:GP has the key to P.O. Box #2. That is why she opened the NEW PO Box...let's call it P.O. Box #2. MP found the other key (to PO Box #1) and he (MP) had access to P.O. Box #1 ...she (GP) wanted to keep that P.O. Box #1 private from him. So, she had no choice but to open up another PO Box to replace the one MP found out about. She would not have wanted him to find the key to the NEW P.O. Box #2 as easily as he seems to have found the key for P.O. Box #1. Have I confused you all? GP had the only key, so I doubt anyone has been able to access the PO Box(#2) since her disappearance....as this is not a "criminal case" and there has been no "POI or Suspect" named. I doubt the police would be able to open GP's Federally protected, PO Box without a legal search warrant....and we know those are not easy to come by in Hamilton County...Just saying :innocent::waitasec:
 
Irish_Eyes said:
I think they searched Suck Creek thinking it could have been possible for a vehicle have an accident and wind up in there. I didn't get the impression at the time that the search had anything to do with any theory about a boat, but I could be wrong.

I've heard this referred to as a creek and also a river. Is this even a navigable body of water? How big is MP's boat? Is it like a row boat or a pontoon boat or a speed boat or what? Maybe it was just my own head, but I was picturing a larger craft that I wouldn't think would be what you would use in a creek or small river.
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BBM.. Neither did I have the impression that the search, at that time, had anything to do with any theory about a boat..

We are talking about the Tennessee River and yes, it is a navigable body of water.
 
Emeralgem said:
BBM.. Neither did I have the impression that the search, at that time, had anything to do with any theory about a boat..

We are talking about the Tennessee River and yes, it is a navigable body of water.
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So the Tennessee River and Suck Creek are the same thing? :waitasec:

Nevermind....ThoughtFox to the rescue again. I understand now.
 
confused said:
Glad you caught my humor.... I understand what you are saying, and that is the reason that I have always thought probably either Gail told him or the kids that she was going back to the lake. It would explain why he didn't think she was missing for those 48 hours.
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:twocents:Okay....Let's try to clear something up now. It is my understanding that GP's son, told an adult neighbor within the first day or two of GP missing (I believe it was sometime between Apriil 30th and May 2, 2011 ... when GP was officially reported missing to the Signal Mountain Police Department). GP's son said that his Dad told them (the brother & sister) that their Mom went down to the Lake. So that story was told by MP & GP's son to an adult neighbor. This was before MP stopped allowing the children to speak to anyone without Palmgren supervision. That started a little bit later...exact date, I can't be sure. But, that is how the story of GP going back down to the lakehouse got out and by who. I hope this helps. So....you understand....MP told his kids this story about GP's alleged whereabouts when GP failed to come home to the kids on Saturday after bringing them home from Alabama and the son passed that information on to a VERY CREDIBLE adult neighbor, who in turn relayed the story, as it was told to the neighbor, by the son. This story was then passed on to KN, DN, AD...and a few others.:twocents:
 
Yikes, that isn't what we see at the bottom of the mountain (i.e., white water). This is one of the boat launches on Suck Creek Road (there are more), pretty deep water, fishing, etc., we take our 18 foot boat out all the time, it could handle any trailored boat I would imagine. Although this isn't about a boat...but could a vehicle go missing? Absolutely! Did the two-hour water search cover the least bit of this waterway, NO! IMHO

18.gif




ThoughtFox said:
I don't think MPs boat would work there, but Suck Creek runs directly into the TN River and there is a boat ramp there I believe.

Most of it is like a wild rocky river. The water is probably lower in the summer, but recently we've had heavy rains. It's mostly for kayaks and canoes when the water is high.

(Where Suck Creek gets it's name: When the River was higher before TVA built the series of Dams, the fast-moving water of this creek ran into the River and created a dangerous whirlpool called "The Suck" because it would suck boats under. )

Pictures: Flickr

Click to expand...
 
happy409 said:
Unsure of the legal ramifications. If the key was at home, MP found it, he has the COA knowing the PO Box number, so either he went to the PO Box to see if something was there or LE may have inquired. Maybe someone with PO or LE experience would know for sure.
Click to expand...

Seems to be a touchy situation. Federal offenses. LE would need a search warrant.
 
Irish_Eyes said:
ThoughtFox I know you weren't responding to me but thanks for clearing that up....obviously if Suck Creek has a boat ramp it would be considered navigable.

Still wondering about the size of the Palmgren's boat....
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Do we know Matt had a boat in TN? I know I've speculated on a fishing boat being in the back yard, garage or storage area.
 
Saw a jeep like GP's today...same color, but had NM tags, a compass on the tire cover, roll bars and a big flag sticker in the side window. Also a two door. The poor guy must of thought I was a stalker or something. On a four lane street and I was slowing down in the passing lane to get a looksee.
 
Irish_Eyes said:
I'm sure in a missing person's case where all possibilities are being considered, including foul play, it's probably SOP to look at other cases of missing persons and other open homicides and try to see if there are any connections.

This woman and Gail did not seem to have a lot in common, and Gail didn't even live on the mountain in 2004, but it's possible they could have both come into contact with a person who had ill intent. From what I understand this is not an area where the murder rate is high or where people go missing often, voluntarily or otherwise.

There is a name mentioned in the WCRB article I linked above, and interestingly enough that individual was arrested this week (see mug shot here):

http://www.dunlaptattler.com/?p=11445

Assuming it's the same person, but it's the same name and Dunlap is close to Signal Mountain.

Could this be the source of the new information on the old case?

ETA: He was not arrested this week, but last month. It clearly says 6-3-11, and in my head that somehow translated to this week. You know what that means - time to get some sleep! Sorry for the confusion, but I don't think it changes much anyhow. It could still be the impetus for the new info on the old case.
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Thnx to Emeralgem and Sleuthy1 for the maps. I live on the "front" side of Signal and I'm not very familiar with these other areas. My husband did request that I consider staying off Big Fork Road. No argument there.

I believe LE (and now TBI and Gov. Haslam's office as well) is looking at Gail's case from every possible angle. If they're looking at foul play, and if any new information may be coming from the person of interest they mention, it appears his residence is about 10 minutes from Big Fork Road -- kinda scary, especially when you look at his mug shot and read the account of the 2004 case. I'm not saying nothin about nobody at this point because all I have is a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach to go on. We'll have to see how this unfolds.

It plays into what many locals had said from early on in this case. This is all pure speculation from people whose families have lived here for generations and seem to know a lot, covering many, many years -- I'm a newbie having lived here only 22 years. The old locals fear Gail was killed by someone who lives in this general area. They think he associated with a bunch of similar bad characters and that they liked to hang out at a place run by a close relative of one of the main players in this case. I don't know if we're supposed to repeat speculation from locals in this way, so moderator, please delete if needed. But it has been the consistent theory that I've heard in two months...from dinner parties to the kid who carries out the groceries at Bi-Lo, they believe Gail is gone and that her husband had something to do with it. And, that the jeep was taken to a chop shop (easy for the same bad characters) and had disappeared before Gail was reported missing. Does any of this strike a chord with anyone? Or are the locals telling their tale and we're sitting on ours?

I would love nothing more than for Gail to come home to her children and family. I still believe about 50/50 that she will. I don't think it would matter to anyone if she felt she had to hide or leave for whatever reason. She would be welcomed with open arms and more (old and new) friends than she ever knew she had.
 
Sleuthy1 said:
:twocents:Okay....Let's try to clear something up now. It is my understanding that GP's son, told an adult neighbor within the first day or two of GP missing (I believe it was sometime between Apriil 30th and May 2, 2011 ... when GP was officially reported missing to the Signal Mountain Police Department). GP's son said that his Dad told them (the brother & sister) that their Mom went down to the Lake. So that story was told by MP & GP's son to an adult neighbor. This was before MP stopped allowing the children to speak to anyone without Palmgren supervision. That started a little bit later...exact date, I can't be sure. But, that is how the story of GP going back down to the lakehouse got out and by who. I hope this helps. So....you understand....MP told his kids this story about GP's alleged whereabouts when GP failed to come home to the kids on Saturday after bringing them home from Alabama and the son passed that information on to a VERY CREDIBLE adult neighbor, who in turn relayed the story, as it was told to the neighbor, by the son. This story was then passed on to KN, DN, AD...and a few others.:twocents:
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haha I think that constitutes double hearsay.:hug:
 
IrishEyes

That's interesting. And directly across from the Fairmount Cemetery. Wonder if neighbors from the Walnut residence know anything? From the police reports it seems he stayed busy.
 
Yes, F. Lee. There was one from summer of 2010 as well w/ same name for DUI, assaulting officer, property damage, etc. but I didn't pull it over because there was no address, so no real new info on this angle.
 
JBean said:
haha I think that constitutes double hearsay.:hug:
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:twocents:Good thing we are not in court under oath:crazy:....double hearsay should be fine in conversation outside of the courtroom... Most people are not talking about this as much anymore on the Mtn. Even those that were originally very vocal, are no longer speaking about it. I think what F. Lee said might turn out to be more truth than rumor eventually. I think people are becoming more scared of MP and his possible connections...if they really believe he had something to do with GP's disappearance.:twocents:
 
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