TN - Joann, 31, & Adrienne Bain, 14, Whiteville, 27 April 2012 - #5

[HaikuMommy]

It was a pretty specific complaint about him being in the bathroom with the child. How would he not know who made this complaint?

If it was a made-up complaint and the incident never happened, he would have to guess... and could only assume it was someone who was mad at him.

If it actually happened, but was not as described (they weren't nude, he was actually putting a bandage on the 7yo's knee, something innocent) but his sister walked in and said "what's going on here?" then he might know who reported it.

OR... if he was nude and shaving a nude 7yo's legs and his sister walked in and freaked out, he would know exactly who reported it... and would have probably hurried to get rid of any child *advertiser censored* before CPS showed up.

 

[menmo]

Not sticking up for AM in any way, shape or form, but all one would have to do when they've had a CPS visit is figure out who was ticked at you at the time. It's actually fairly easy to figure it out, imo. Been there, done that, could write a book on it.

ETA: I have helped so many people that had fake allegations of pay back, as the above poster spoke of, that it could make your hair curl.

MOO

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

In Oklahoma the person accused of abuse has the right to hear any phone calls where it was reported and can view any paperwork filled out reporting it. I found this out after I reported someone for neglect and after she got out of jail, came after me. Maybe AM was privy to this info after the complaint. JMO

 

[HaikuMommy]

Wow, I am shocked that people make false accusations of abuse that often. I would think you'd have to really hate someone to call CPS and make a false report. I can certainly see it happening with exes who are very bitter.

I only know two people who ever had CPS called on them (one says it was a false allegation, the other says it was a wake up call that changed the way they parented, so it was warranted though the kids were not taken away). But I guess people don't always tell their friends and family when they have had a CPS call, do they? So maybe its more common than I think.

Kinda OT -- I almost called CPS on someone once. Probably should have. I used to have a neighbor that yelled and cursed at her kids all the time, called them names, and threatened them with things like "I'll bust you in the head if you do that again." I never saw her actually hit them, though. She was very fat and had four preteen to teenage kids who could easily escape her, so I think she was all talk -- but it was cringeworthy. One of her boys made eye contact with me as she yelled at him from inside their condo, calling him an a-hole. He looked so humiliated. After that, I left her an anonymous note in her mailbox that said, "We can all hear you threatening and cursing at your kids, and calling them names. If it doesn't stop, we will call CPS." And it actually stopped after that. Then I worried that maybe she was just whispering the curses and threats. But I didn't want her to lose her kids... I just wanted her to stop treating them that way. So I can't imagine calling CPS on someone just out of spite.

 

[animallvr]

Another question that comes to my mind is if all the cell phones were left at home, didn't GB hear JBs phone ringing when he tried calling her? Of course, it could have had a dead battery, but if he tried calling the cell phones of JB or any of the girls, he could have heard it ringing in the house, or at least vibrating. If the phone was dead, it would probably go right to voicemail.

I know there are many of you posting here that have strong feelings against MJ and feel sorry for GB. I feel just the opposite. I am highly suspicious of GB and I hope and pray that MJ will be able to get his daughter back. GB was aware that AM was accused of being naked with his youngest daughter, and did nothing to protect her. He was obviously at home while the murders took place and didn't even hear any type of commotion?

I also think that it is odd that he wants to take the ashes to CA. There is a fund set up for funeral expenses, yet he is getting them cremated and taking them to CA. Why not spread their ashes in Arizona, since they loved it there so much?

I still think there is much more to this story than any one knows, and it may never be known. I also wonder if the girls will ever tell the entire truth about what happened to them. I bet they have been conditioned to keep secrets. Regardless, I personally am of the opinion that GB put his wife and children's lives in danger. AM was GBs buddy, and even after the DCS investigation, he continued to allow a pedo around his girls. WHY? He also was aware of AMs character. I don't believe that he knew this man this long and didn't know that he was a pedo, a mooch, mistreated his wife, never worked, had the cops called numerous times, did drugs, the list goes on and on....no way! He knew the character of AM, and obviously liked him! Birds of a feather..... Also, I don't believe he had GB fooled like he did his landlord. The landlord thought he was a great guy, etc. However, that's the landlord, someone you want to think highly of you. GB was someone who KNEW him his whole life. GB knew the good, bad, and the ugly. I don't believe that AM had him fooled. He knew his character, just like his AMs brothers and sisters knew his character. IMO THERE IS MORE TO THIS STORY, MUCH MORE!

I couldnt have said it better. There is no way they need to go back to GB. If he had not let "his" girls continue to be around this pedophile maybe none of this would have happened. That makes no sense to me as a parent. I am so thankful that my parents protected me from anything suspicious like this. Maybe AM would have left all this alone, who knows, if they weren't allowed to be around them, but that was a full year ago. His "obsession" grew more every day after this. And no telling what he did after that to them since he was allowed to get away with this once and still got to see them. I feel sorry for MJ that he is worried his child is going back to an unsafe condition. MJ could definitely not do worse in raising her than what she was in before. I hope he is successful but I do worry about KB being around GB.

 

[HaikuMommy]

In Oklahoma the person accused of abuse has the right to hear any phone calls where it was reported and can view any paperwork filled out reporting it. I found this out after I reported someone for neglect and after she got out of jail, came after me. Maybe AM was privy to this info after the complaint. JMO

Scary! That seems like a bad idea. That lack of anonymity would certainly cut down on people reporting real abuse, I would think.

P.S. Love your avatar, lol

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

Scary! That seems like a bad idea. That lack of anonymity would certainly cut down on people reporting real abuse, I would think.

P.S. Love your avatar, lol

If I'd known beforehand that they would let her listen to the phonecall I made, I really don't know if I would have gone through with it. It sure caused a lot of problems. Thankfully her kids now live with her parents since she continues to make bad decisions. :banghead:

Thanks! I love the killer kupcake :rocker:

 

[animallvr]

MJ stated on his Fb page that after much thought and consideration, he has come to the conclusion that he doesn't have it in his heart to separate AB from her sister but that he does wish to sit down with GB and work something out. (Presumably visits, IMO.)

He has publicly admitted (on FB) that he knows he made mistakes with his daughters. It's horrible that sometimes it takes a tragedy to realize how much mistakes have cost you, as I believe sadly is the case here. I believe he is in deep mourning over the loss of both AB and JB and will probably live his entire life with gut-wrenching regret and heartache. Whatever his reasons for giving up legal custody, nobody deserves that.

It's natural and easy for us to judge situations and relationships which we know very little about. But in reality, the fact that he isn't the legal father doesn't change that he (along with his side of the family) is suffering from this horrific tragedy.

The interest of the two surviving girls should obviously should be placed first and foremost. I believe that GB and MJ both have good hearts and will continue to take any and all steps necessary to put AB and KB on the path to recovery and healing. I believe that they are surrounded my so much love and support and, although the path will be tough, these brave little girls are going to be okay.

MOO

I am glad he decided that and would hope GB would agree.

 

[menmo]

SBBM

In Oklahoma the person accused of abuse has the right to hear any phone calls where it was reported and can view any paperwork filled out reporting it. I found this out after I reported someone for neglect and after she got out of jail, came after me. Maybe AM was privy to this info after the complaint. JMO

Yikes. I don't like that idea at all, but I would like for the person to have to leave their name, etc. so that DFS can go back and follow up with them. Then again, some people may not trust that either. Never mind, I think being an anon person is the best way for some.

Wow, I am shocked that people make false accusations of abuse that often. I would think you'd have to really hate someone to call CPS and make a false report. I can certainly see it happening with exes who are very bitter.

Kinda OT -- I almost called CPS on someone once. Probably should have. One of her boys made eye contact with me as she yelled at him from inside their condo, calling him an a-hole. He looked so humiliated. After that, I left her an anonymous note in her mailbox that said, "We can all hear you threatening and cursing at your kids, and calling them names. If it doesn't stop, we will call CPS." And it actually stopped after that. Then I worried that maybe she was just whispering the curses and threats. But I didn't want her to lose her kids... I just wanted her to stop treating them that way. So I can't imagine calling CPS on someone just out of spite.

Well, I had an attorney friend that I would work with some of his clients on advice, etc. so I think I just saw a lot more than others. My brother had a report filed on him when my sister n law wanted her kids. She said there was no food in the house. He had two freezers full plus a refrigerator and cabinets full. It was ridiculous and we knew it was her and my brother told her he was told it was her and she confessed to us. Stupid waste of funds and time that another child needed, I'm sure.
I love the note in the mailbox thing. I wish more people would stand up and do that for the children, or anyone being used and abused. If everyone would do it for just one person they know of, then imagine how much better it could be for so many.
I have reported people and won't ever hesitate to do it again. I reported my ex for abusing my child and the state did step in eventually after I took him to the doctor for documentation after the adults in the home kept saying I was lying.
I've also reported being in a neighborhood where my friend sent me to work with one of his clients and saw a kid chained up like a dog to the front porch. I always wonder about that kid, still.

MJ could definitely not do worse in raising her than what she was in before. I hope he is successful but I do worry about KB being around GB.

I'm of the belief that one should never say things couldn't be worse because life has a way of showing you that it certainly can. We just never know what's around the bend.

If I'd known beforehand that they would let her listen to the phonecall I made, I really don't know if I would have gone through with it.

Thank you for making that phone call and helping!

MOO

 

[HaikuMommy]

Bain family focused on healing
"Let me emphatically say there's no way that [AM] is the father of any of these children," said L*. "And that when confronted about that, [AM] would say, 'Oh, I know I'm not the father, I just love them like I'm their father.'"

http://www.kctv5.com/story/18420542/bain-family-focused-on-healing

This makes me a little crazy. So AM apparently WAS confronted with "why are you telling people these are your kids?" and he responded with "I just love them like I'm their father." That would creep me out!

The girls already had a biodad (MJ) and an adoptive dad (GB), I wouldn't have wanted AM inserting himself in there, too. GB knew AM was pretending the kids were his and was not uncomfortable with that?

 

[animallvr]

"I'm of the belief that one should never say things couldn't be worse because life has a way of showing you that it certainly can. We just never know what's around the bend. "


That is true. I never thought about it that way. I guess I should have said from what I have seen so far about GB, then maybe she would be better off with MJ. But of course like you said, who really knows what's around the bend.

 

[Ladylub]

Scary! That seems like a bad idea. That lack of anonymity would certainly cut down on people reporting real abuse, I would think.

2 weeks ago while walking my daughter to school an older couple and a man were out and I heard them shooing something away. As we get closer I see they are shooing 4 dogs and a boy who looked maybe 2 yrs old. They said they were not sure where he lived but thought he lived at the house across from them. They said they were not getting involved. I pass the house daily and never seen this kids before. they had boys a bit older then him but never seen him. He was only wearing a shirt that was small for him and a diaper that looked like it had not been changed in days. He sat on the ground and his poor little legs were all red were the diaper was rubbing while he walked. And it looked like it was falling apart. ( none of which I told the cops I only said he was out by himself and I was not sure where he lived just where neighbors thought he lived, I was told not to knock on the door) 20 minutes later a cop shows up, I talk to him and he lets me go walk my oldest to school. Walking back another cop yells are you the one that called and the one I talked to earlier said yells yes that is girl. Grrr now if he needed to talk to me fine I told the other cop where I was headed for that purpose if they wanted other question answered etc but he called me out in front the parents with my 4 yr old there. Parents called me every name under the sun thanking me for having cps on there backs even more then what they were already. I was told cps may call but it was unlikely. Well they called to get more info from that day and asked me questions about how they are daily since we pass by. We pass them for maybe a minute. I see boys out there daily not really seeing an adult but maybe they were somewhere I couldn't see. In front this house there are sofas, tables, chairs, mattresses, motorcycles, trucks, seat from inside cars and many many more items all over the driveway and front lawn. Like a big junk yard so when we get there we are listening to my daughter who is in full jabba jaws mode and Im trying to steer my kids from falling into the pits from H E double hockey sticks. Had I known they were going to directly point me out like that I would have walked way out of my way to get home. We now have to walk the way out of our way to and from school so we do not run by them b/c if they see me or my kids they yell more names our way. Which I do not mind they can call me as they see fit I get it they are mad that I called the cops but Im not subjecting my kiddos to it.

 

[Anne2]

In my first post I made some statements that hopefully make one think. Fact is CPS false allegations exist and I have first hand knowledge of that. I can not supply documents to that 1) I signed a confidentially agreement and 2) I thought I was the only person with the same story, but have heard the same story before, therefore my story is not unique. I gave no identifying information so I did not break the confidentially agreement.
In my case and others I have heard of similar, you are either classified as founded or unfounded. While unfounded would indicate you are cleared of charges/allegations, there is no document stating such.
Yes, hate CPS, but they did their job.
While i hate mentioning that false allegations exist as a means to make one to put down their red flags, I do want those to know these exist more than one can imagine. What I want to convey is that false allegations exist and we as a society must take these seriously, but not jump on a bandwagon, due to preconceived prejudice based on looks, socioeconomic status, media frenzy, social site postings and innuendos.
I am a strong believer that if I can not find it as fact, based on a fact finding website, not the media, social website, perhaps I need to investigate more. I do believe that we should speak up for children, who can speak for themselves. it is the responsibility of that agency to find the truth. Sometimes that truth is not what the perpetrator wanted though.

 

[HaikuMommy]

He was only wearing a shirt that was small for him and a diaper that looked like it had not been changed in days. He sat on the ground and his poor little legs were all red were the diaper was rubbing while he walked. And it looked like it was falling apart.

Poor little thing! That hurts my heart. You did the right thing, absolutely. Shame on the cop for exposing that it was you who called.

 

[Anne2]

Wow, I am shocked that people make false accusations of abuse that often. I would think you'd have to really hate someone to call CPS and make a false report. I can certainly see it happening with exes who are very bitter."

not sure if i successfully only posted the section I am relying to. Yes I am shocked myself that these false allegations exist in difficult custody cases, but they do. I have read, heard and talked to parents that have experienced this, only to find the basic premise of the story is the same with the names and location as the parts changed. it is heart breaking.

 

[impatientredhead]

I am sure this varies from state to state, if not county to county, but I made a call to CPS and was told that if I did not leave my name my tip would be treated with minimal seriousness and there was no guarantee it would be investigated at all. I was really surprised but was basically told that so many people make false complaints and misuse the system that their limited resources require that the incoming info be triaged so to speak. From a practical standpoint I know that makes sense, but it doesn't help the kid and doesn't encourage you to make the call in my opinion.

In my situation I worked for the girls uncle. He was married to her maternal aunt. The sisters had a high drama relationship, multiple restraining orders, calls into CPS against each other, straight out of a Jerry Springer episode. But every Monday morning the man I worked for would fill me in on all the drama from the previous weekend. There were many horrifying stories but you never knew what was true because most of the time he was telling me what his wife claimed the sister was up to. Third hand info at best and from a less than credible source.

One particular morning though he told me that the nine year old niece had come back from her overnight visit with her bio dad with blood in her panties. It was supposedly being written off as the beginning of her menstrual cycle even though there were previous allegations about sexual abuse with bio dad (again the credibility of which I have no idea). And while I know some girls do menstruate at that early of an age it didn't ring true in this scenario at all. Even the fact that everyone in the family was talking about her bloody panties seemed highly suspect to me. Hardly a family announcement or facebook update, not in my world anyway.

My boss wouldn't call. He thought the info would get back to the biomom and he didn't want the drama and didn't want his own kids in the line of fire when they retaliated. I told him I was going to call and he encouraged me to.

But I called CPS, did not want to leave my info because I knew I would get drug into the drama fest. I had all of the childs info (due to my job) her birthdate, address, school she went to. Details from previous calls that had been made about this child to validate I had some insight even though this was third hand info. The chick I talked to told me point blank it would be noted that the call was made but unless I gave my info it would not result in a visit.

After that I called the child's teacher, told her what I knew. I told her that I had called CPS and they basically didn't take the call. I was hoping that as a mandatory reporter that she would at least keep an eye on her, maybe ask her how things were at home, etc... Sometimes someone thinks something is off but they don't think they have enough info to make a credible call, I thought maybe some validation of those feelings might result in a call. Made the same call to her medical doctor. All of the mandatory reports I could think of. I don't think anything ever came of it in all honesty.

 

[forthelost]

Sandra Cantu's perverted murderer is an incredible aberration and exception to the rule. Yes, it happens occasionally, but historically and statistically, female child molesters are incredibly, incredibly, rare, unless you include women who seduce teen boys.

Not the case. Their bibliography gives a lot of sources.

 

[GrainneDhu]

In Oklahoma the person accused of abuse has the right to hear any phone calls where it was reported and can view any paperwork filled out reporting it. I found this out after I reported someone for neglect and after she got out of jail, came after me. Maybe AM was privy to this info after the complaint. JMO

Wow. Just wow.

Oklahoma doesn't find that this policy greatly depresses the number of reports?

Or maybe they figure that's a feature rather than a bug.

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

Wow. Just wow.

Oklahoma doesn't find that this policy greatly depresses the number of reports?

Or maybe they figure that's a feature rather than a bug.

I don't think most people know. I assumed it would be anonymous, I didn't give my name or info, but she knew my voice. Apparently the call was used during her trial even though I've never been contacted by LE.

 

[GrainneDhu]

2 weeks ago while walking my daughter to school an older couple and a man were out and I heard them shooing something away. As we get closer I see they are shooing 4 dogs and a boy who looked maybe 2 yrs old. They said they were not sure where he lived but thought he lived at the house across from them. They said they were not getting involved. I pass the house daily and never seen this kids before. they had boys a bit older then him but never seen him. He was only wearing a shirt that was small for him and a diaper that looked like it had not been changed in days. He sat on the ground and his poor little legs were all red were the diaper was rubbing while he walked. And it looked like it was falling apart. ( none of which I told the cops I only said he was out by himself and I was not sure where he lived just where neighbors thought he lived, I was told not to knock on the door) 20 minutes later a cop shows up, I talk to him and he lets me go walk my oldest to school. Walking back another cop yells are you the one that called and the one I talked to earlier said yells yes that is girl. Grrr now if he needed to talk to me fine I told the other cop where I was headed for that purpose if they wanted other question answered etc but he called me out in front the parents with my 4 yr old there. Parents called me every name under the sun thanking me for having cps on there backs even more then what they were already. I was told cps may call but it was unlikely. Well they called to get more info from that day and asked me questions about how they are daily since we pass by. We pass them for maybe a minute. I see boys out there daily not really seeing an adult but maybe they were somewhere I couldn't see. In front this house there are sofas, tables, chairs, mattresses, motorcycles, trucks, seat from inside cars and many many more items all over the driveway and front lawn. Like a big junk yard so when we get there we are listening to my daughter who is in full jabba jaws mode and Im trying to steer my kids from falling into the pits from H E double hockey sticks. Had I known they were going to directly point me out like that I would have walked way out of my way to get home. We now have to walk the way out of our way to and from school so we do not run by them b/c if they see me or my kids they yell more names our way. Which I do not mind they can call me as they see fit I get it they are mad that I called the cops but Im not subjecting my kiddos to it.

Ladylub, how awful.

I hope you will find out whether child abuse or neglect reporters are covered by anonymity laws and then talk to the chief of police about how you were treated. It was inappropriate and the officers investigating should have known better.

They won't learn any better if someone doesn't point it out.