TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[TxLady2]

Belimom, it's strange that there doesn't seem to be any evidence in the home. Or even around the home....
We know HB was incapacitated and taken from her home.
Because blood was left behind.
According to local news, Karen was decomposed and identified by dental records.
There were periods of 60 degree days after she went missing, so that makes sense.
But then the reports have LE saying that there was obvious trauma to her body.
That implies a broken hyoid bone (strangling) or a gun or knife or some weapon to bludgeon.
I just don't have a clue.

The first report I read stated she was in the early stages of decomposition, there could still have been some skin and flesh on her bones. Probably still enough tissue that indicated bruises or cuts. Could have been heavy bruising around her neck, they don't necessarily have to check the hyoid bone to tell if someone's been choked or strangled. I'm not sure if LEO's are that medically knowledgable, seems like the ME would have to determine that.

 

[TexasCharm]

Just because there was "No indication she was killed in a different location" doesn't mean that she was killed where she was found.

Just that there was "no indication" of it.

Just sayin ...

Prayin' for some DNA ..

 

[OldSteve]

The slashed tires make no sense to me - she couldn't have driven with them to where her car was found, and if there is no way I can see her stopping on her own at that spot, someone taking her, and then taking time to slash the tires. This seems like a plan that was not well thought out!
As much as I don't want the husband to be guilty, it doesn't look good in that I see
a scenario in which she is left where she was found, but then her car is needed to get closer to home. Instead of just leaving her car there, her tires are slashed in an attempt to give some sense (that doesn't make sense to me) as to why her car is where it is...

 

[cluciano63]

Has anyone come up with a good reason why she would have gone back out after bringing her daughter home? Was anyone expecting her? Did she tell anyone she would be back at the party? I just can't imagine why she would leave her house again, unless she was in danger there. I have heard nothing credible to indicate that she would go meet a lover or anything like that, after bringing a child home late at night. That is my main issue with this being a stranger...unless she was running for her life from her home, but then would she leave her little girls? This all seems very staged to me, JMO.

 

[otto]

Kudzu Vine on Vimeo - long version:

Thank you.

That was completely bizarre. I guess it's been known to be a problem plant for a very long time - it's just that the response was a bit more superstitious than scientific until 1972.

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

The first report I read stated she was in the early stages of decomposition, there could still have been some skin and flesh on her bones. Probably still enough tissue that indicated bruises or cuts. Could have been heavy bruising around her neck, they don't necessarily have to check the hyoid bone to tell if someone's been choked or strangled. I'm not sure if LEO's are that medically knowledgable, seems like the ME would have to determine that.

Thanks for your thoughts. That makes sense.
I guess I am just trying to find a way that no one who loved her or knew her is responsible for her death.
I know it's more likely that the opposite is true, but as in other cases, I won't discount a stranger until LE says different.
This area where she was found is "out of the way". In some ways it is much like where Holly Bobo was taken.
Near water, about 45 minutes from Jackson, Tennessee.
That area in Dyer county is still recuperating from the spring floods and the Obion river behind the cemetery has been running high lately, with more rain.
I just can't discount a predator or even a serial killer actively killing in Western Tennessee.
I think Holly was taken the Wednesday before Good Friday, if my sometimes bad memory is correct.
And Karen was taken the day before Halloween.
JMO

 

[cocomod]

Yes, I just realized how creepy that is! And weird, too - who goes to a graveyard on Halloween night?

Well adults anyway, teenagers would find the graveyard so much fun for Halloween. :floorlaugh:

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Thank you.

That was completely bizarre. I guess it's been known to be a problem plant for a very long time - it's just that the response was a bit more superstitious than scientific until 1972.

If I recall what they told us around here in school the vine was introduced to stop erosion, and it does that, along with eating everything it gets near!

 

[cluciano63]

Thanks for your thoughts. That makes sense.
I guess I am just trying to find a way that no one who loved her or knew her is responsible for her death.
I know it's more likely that the opposite is true, but as in other cases, I won't discount a stranger until LE says different.
This area where she was found is "out of the way". In some ways it is much like where Holly Bobo was taken.
Near water, about 45 minutes from Jackson, Tennessee.
That area in Dyer county is still recuperating from the spring floods and the Obion river behind the cemetery has been running high lately, with more rain.
I just can't discount a predator or even a serial killer actively killing in Western Tennessee.
I think Holly was taken the Wednesday before Good Friday, if my sometimes bad memory is correct.
And Karen was taken the day before Halloween.
JMO

But Holly was leaving her home at a time that was normal for her...so anyone interested in her could presume she would be exiting her house that morning. I can't imagine anyone thinking Karen would be out and about in the middle of the night...

I don't see a connection at all. I think someone who knew Holly came to see her and then got into an altercation with and ended up taking her away with him once she was injured. Maybe a stalker, but someone who wanted Holly, not just any blond woman. JMO

Too much going on in Karen's life for this to be a total coincindence, for me, unless we find out she had a secret life, of which there is no indication.

 

[tarabull]

When we are touched by something it's as if we're being brushed by an angel's wings. ~ Rita Dove

As long as I can remember October 30th has been known as Devil's Night and there's no doubt many people have been touched by Karen Swift Johnson.

IMHO the entire planet should continue on with the Detroit's community response of renaming October 30th Angel's Night in light of Karen's heartbreaking story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Night

http://detroit.about.com/od/peoplelifestyles/a/Devils_night.htm

There's no doubt we have all be touched by an angel.

:angel: Karen Johnson Swift :angel:

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

There is an outside chance that Karen could have discussed plans with a friend at the party or elsewhere and been overheard, but that doesn't explain the slit/flat tire.
I know that staging is probable here, I just hate what it implies.
JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

If COD is strangulation or suffocation then I wouldn't expect there to be much (if any) evidence. Because she shared a house with her estranged husband, there will be ample DNA of both in the residence and in any shared vehicles, so that might not provide any clues.

Most of these cases get solved and statistically-speaking it tends to be someone close to the victim or at least someone the victim knows.

The rest is a waiting game. Law enforcement generally doesn't tell the public what specific evidence they've found during their investigation. It's a wait 'n see process.

 

[ThoughtFox]

If COD is strangulation or suffocation then I wouldn't expect there to be much (if any) evidence. Because she shared a house with her estranged husband, there will be ample DNA of both in the residence and in any shared vehicles, so that might not provide any clues.

Most of these cases get solved and statistically-speaking it tends to be someone close to the victim or at least someone the victim knows.

The rest is a waiting game. Law enforcement generally doesn't tell the public what specific evidence they've found during their investigation. It's a wait 'n see process.

Blood can still be a clue. And a fractured skull or other broken bones might be a clue.

 

[OldSteve]

Has anyone come up with a good reason why she would have gone back out after bringing her daughter home? Was anyone expecting her? Did she tell anyone she would be back at the party? I just can't imagine why she would leave her house again, unless she was in danger there. I have heard nothing credible to indicate that she would go meet a lover or anything like that, after bringing a child home late at night. That is my main issue with this being a stranger...unless she was running for her life from her home, but then would she leave her little girls? This all seems very staged to me, JMO.

I see a scenario in which a husband (speaking hypothetically and not accusing anyone) about to be divorced plans to kill his spouse... he gets wind that she will out at a party the same night their kids will also be out. His plan is to make it appear something happened to her while she is out.
All seems to going okay until one of the kids who is supposed to be out, needs mom to get her and bring her home that night.... the husband is too intent on his plan and still goes thru with it, but now he's got a problem... need to say she went out again.... that she went back to a party that was all but over...

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

And here we all are, as in other cases, wondering......
Why does LE believe she was killed where found?
There has to be a reason.
I agree that it is best for them to keep info safe for a case.
I just hope and pray this case doesn't end up unsolved forever like others have!
I guess that is what brings us to WS.
Looking for answers when we don't have all the info.
JMO

 

[belimom]

And here we all are, as in other cases, wondering......
Why does LE believe she was killed where found?
There has to be a reason.
I agree that it is best for them to keep info safe for a case.
I just hope and pray this case doesn't end up unsolved forever like others have!
I guess that is what brings us to WS.
Looking for answers when we don't have all the info.
JMO

I think it's a pretty strong statement to say that she wasn't killed elsewhere. I wonder if there is evidence that they recovered there...?

I mean, there are ways that someone can be killed that don't leave blood (strangulation, etc). So I don't understand how LE can be certain that she wasn't killed somewhere else. :waitasec:

ETA: Okay, I re-read the statement and it says 'no indication' that she was killed somewhere else. Still very confusing. I mean, why even say that? Hmm.

 

[cluciano63]

While LE is being mysterious with their wording...this makes me wonder if her cause of death involved a large loss of blood and they are indeed finding that there is/was a large amount of blood in the location where she was found. (Yikes )

 

[Madeleine74]

Blood can still be a clue. And a fractured skull or other broken bones might be a clue.

Yes, absolutely! Autopsy will tell the tale and if there is anything forensic to be found, I'm sure they'll find and test it.

I re-read the statement and it says 'no indication' that she was killed somewhere else. Still very confusing. I mean, why even say that? Hmm.

There's always these read between the lines type of statements in investigations. Look for the police saying things like, "this crime appears to be an isolated incident" or "not a random murder..." those are hints that they believe the victim knew her killer and it is someone close to her. Someone in the media probably asked if she was killed where her body was found, so they give an answer that doesn't commit them to saying definitively, in case their investigation reveals something different.

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

While LE is being mysterious with their wording...this makes me wonder if her cause of death involved a large loss of blood and they are indeed finding that there is/was a large amount of blood in the location where she was found. (Yikes )

That's the only way I can see it also.
And if we exclude anyone from her home as her killer, that would just leave her meeting someone out there at Bledsoe or someone somehow following her or just the kind of "luck" that a serial killer/predator seems to have:maddening:
JMO

 

[AmyMarie222]

My theory, and this is purely MOO, is the DS got angry about something - perhaps it was Karen's cat costume. I'm sure it infuriated him that she went to a Halloween party at a country club in a cute little cat costume. I don't know any husband who feels his wife slipping away who wouldn't have been angry about his wife in a costume at a Halloween party.

I don't think it was necessarily pre-meditated. If it was pre-meditated, then her clothes would have been better concealed and her tires wouldn't have been slashed (tires slashed or air let out of tires is too obvious for pre-meditated. Seems rushed.)

In my opinion, he lost his temper and accidentally killed her. He only had a few hours to work with, so he drove towards the river with the intention of dumping her there, but it was too cumbersome, so he found that brush area instead and buried her there without her clothes. On his way home from the cemetery, he pulls over on Millsfield Hwy, but realizes that he still has her clothes in the car, so he ran out, hid the clothing, then walks home.

He was way too scared to call the cops to report her missing, because of the sloppy job he did, so he wasn't the first to call - Karen's friends were.

He decides to use it as an opportunity to make Karen look like an unfit mother who goes out at all hours of the night, while making HIMSELF look like the "caring" dad who was home with his kids.

I also think there might have been conflicting reports about which way Karen's car was facing. Perhaps it was originally facing south on Millsfield Hwy, while he was planting her clothes, but after he planted the clothes, he realized he needed to turn the car around to make it look like Karen was on her way home.

That is the scenario that keeps playing over and over in my mind.

I hope he's innocent, for the kids sake, but the fact that the car was so close to home is a huge red flag to me.