Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

[Mom24]

OK then, why was Maciej Ignaciuk not charged with kidnapping? He did the exact same thing. Do you have any example of someone who has ran away with a minor, under the same circumstances, and was convicted of anything more than unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor? Because I can't find any examples.

Maciej Ignaciuk aka Max Kozak was charged with kidnapping and a host of other felonies (11 to be exact) but plead no-contest to two charges of sex with a minor. This was part of a plea deal party driven by the family's desire to not force their daughter to testify in court and part due to wanting to find out his true identity. Some feel the DA made a bad deal, but that doesn't mean it was any less of kidnapping. There are plenty of cases in which people who do not have legal custody of minor being charged with kidnapping. If, as you say, any person is able to live anywhere they want, why was custody given to the father? It's called custody, and as long as someone is under the age of 18 they are under someone's custody unless they are emancipated. Interfering with custody is kidnapping. So examples:
Walter Sawyer: convicted of kidnapping sentenced with 25-50 years
James A Morey - convicted of kidnapping for helping a teen run away from home, sentenced 10 years (he didn't take her out of state)
Johnathan Price- 18 years old, convicted of kidnapping for running away with his 16 year old girlfriend. Sentenced 5 - 7yrs
That's a quick search. Now whether TC would be convicted of the charges of kidnapping, we can debate, we can even debate whether he'd have the charges dropped if he returns her to her family safe and sound, but yes under the law he's committed kidnapping and is likely to be charged. When he crosses state lines, federal charges can be levied. Furthermore, if he used his weapons to control her, the situation under TN statute becomes a felony. I understand what you're saying but things are much different legally before the age of 18.

 

[Lori_belle]

So you are saying that anyone who travels with another person is guilty of kidnapping if they have a legal weapon with them? That doesn't make any sense. Guns are legal in this country. It's not a crime to have a gun.

Also what is the federal law you are referring to specifically? If what you say is true, then why was Maciej Ignaciuk and other similar offenders not charged with these more severe charges that you claim would apply? Can you give any examples of any similar cases where an offender was convicted of the charges that you claim would apply?

BTW a fourth DUI offense in TN is a Class E Felony, the same penalty as TC will likely receive.

DUI Offenses

I'm struggling to understand why you think he will be charged with/convicted of a class E felony. The only class E kidnapping-related felony that I know of is custodial interference, but only parents and family members can commit that offense, so...


You are correct that DUI>=4 is a class E felony in Tennessee, as it should be. And I'm not saying any person who travels with another person and a gun commits a crime...but one who does so with a MINOR against the parentswishes does. This is a 15yo CHILD. Just like not everyone who has sex commits statutory rape, but someone who does so with a CHILD usually will (Romeo and Juliet exceptions aside). I seriously can't with this. A person who takes a child even when he has groomed the child into being "willing" has still done something seriously wrong.

 

[Mom24]

For those that think Hawaii and its a big IF they can get to the big island....

Most of the island is rural with a lot of off grid living outside of the city folks live on acreage and there is a lot of places that look for farm workers than can live on the property as well as property sitters that live in Ohana's (small home off the main home). It's totally feasible that one could hide for quite some time IF they could make it here.

It sounds like getting there would present problems. From what I've read getting to the Islands is a bit more involved than it once was. I threw it out there as a possibility, but I'm inclined to think they're elsewhere and given that LE keeps secrets and they keep saying Mexico and hinting at age of consent, I'm going to assume they must have good reason for it.

 

[LaneGirl]

As for marriage...

I believe there is such a thing as marriage by proxy in Mexico, basically you pay someone to stand up for you (legal age) and they get married for you. The paper work is legit but coming back to the states if they ever did it would be up to the states to recognize if its legal, plus there's the fact that at this time he is still married, however if the divorce goes through before they are found and they get married by proxy then it would be legit.

Source - had a distant family member do this way back in the early 90's. He underage her of age (close ages not creepy) marriage certificate stands as legal in CA and they are still married.

I need to make sure I'm just stating the information I knew and a quick google search shows this is still a possibility unless someone has some more recent knowledge.

 

[EA18G]

In TN, how long will it take Jill to get a divorce from Tad?

 

[Jax49]

Do they have passports? TIA

 

[Father4nTx]

I will state this again because I see it pop up every once in awhile: just because there might be some laws in Mexico about marriage age, those rules mean nothing if you have some money and find the correct officials. Bribery there is out of control and the normal way of conducting business. Fact, not here-say, from my experiences.

 

[Mom24]

In TN, how long will it take Jill to get a divorce from Tad?

I don't think they have minor children, I'm assuming she's divorcing on the grounds of abandonment and that can take a while depending on how long it takes to get in front of judge to prove abandonment. I'm hoping that before TC left, he left her with some kind of written agreement which would explain why she reported him missing. It could take up to a year, or as little as 90 days.

 

[LaneGirl]

I will state this again because I see it pop up every once in awhile: just because there might be some laws in Mexico about marriage age, those rules mean nothing if you have some money and find the correct officials. Bribery there is out of control and the normal way of conducting business. Fact, not here-say, from my experiences.

This is exactly correct!

And my family members experience the paperwork was legit in the US.

 

[Mom24]

I will state this again because I see it pop up every once in awhile: just because there might be some laws in Mexico about marriage age, those rules mean nothing if you have some money and find the correct officials. Bribery there is out of control and the normal way of conducting business. Fact, not here-say, from my experiences.

And the age of consent is 12.

 

[KaaBoom]

Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?

Maybe to throw off investigators, or maybe they changed their plans and decided to go to a different destination, or maybe they don't have any plans at all, and are just going whichever way the wind blows them.

 

[cady]

Im neither of these religions, but I would say, yes. They are opposite.

I'd say religion is religion......the opposite of that is atheism, no belief in any deity or deities. JMO

 

[Father4nTx]

Not sure if this has been posted as it's hard to scan these post songs on my phone, but there is a huge difference between the Nazarene church and the Catholic Church. Nazarene is a denomination birthed from the 19th century Holiness movement; the Catholic Church ... was not. Night...and day.

 

[DatelineFan]

I have been thinking about this. I think its entirely plausible that HE doesnt know there aren't really any warm year around beaches in Cali. When people think of Cali, they think about what they see on TV: beaches, sunshine all year long, bikinis, and girls on rollerblades. While some of that happens, that is not the reality for most living in Cali. Compared to where they are coming from in Tenn, California seems like a dream!

My guess isn't that he is going to California, though. My guess is they have traveled down I-40 from Oklahoma. Maybe gone on to Texas then to New Mexico. You can live on $4500 for awhile in the sticks of Texas and New Mexico. Not so long in California.

Totally! I literally live on the beach in SF, and while I've been here only a couple of years, I don't think I've ever worn my swimsuit there! And I go to the beach almost daily. Of course, Socal is different.

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[cady]

I don't think they have minor children, I'm assuming she's divorcing on the grounds of abandonment and that can take a while depending on how long it takes to get in front of judge to prove abandonment. I'm hoping that before TC left, he left her with some kind of written agreement which would explain why she reported him missing. It could take up to a year, or as little as 90 days.

Not sure of TN laws, but she WAS abandoned. He has to be served with the complaint. If he has no address and cannot be served within a specific amount of time, I think she can get a judgment for divorce fairly soon. Gitana may know how that works. JMO

 

[SilentRogue]

Not sure if this has been posted as it's hard to scan these post songs on my phone, but there is a huge difference between the Nazarene church and the Catholic Church. Nazarene is a denomination birthed from the 19th century Holiness movement; the Catholic Church ... was not. Night...and day.

Night and day? Hardly. More like day in Canada and day in Mexico. Different scenery, same planet.


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[KaaBoom]

From that Shoney's it's a pretty straight shot to I65.. to get to I40 from there they'd have to head towards north towards Nashville to get to I840/I40.. If I recall they left in the morning? They might hit rush hour traffic going N.. South I believe there is a highway that takes them from AL towards Memphis and I40..

All JMO..

The most direct route would have been straight west on highway 50 to I-40. The detour to Decatur added almost a hundred miles to their trip. I think they went south to throw off investigators. Then they turned off their phones and headed west.

 

[Father4nTx]

And the age of consent is 12.

In some territories down there; could be all. You are probably right, Not sure. Not like it's worth checking---laws down there change as the winds...and ...$$ ...change. Thais much I know if true.

 

[Rosewater20]

Thanks for the math lesson, but I can do math just fine. She will be 16 next month. So she will be 18 in 2 years and 1 month. She is very close to being a legal adult with the right to make her own decisions.

At that age even a year makes a big difference. Not sure how you can condone it all with this argument.

 

[Doghairrules]

O



With deep respect, IMO none of that is clear at all. Elizabeth Smart walked around "willingly" with her captor. Went to parties and didn't say a word. Didn't try to run when he was jailed for two weeks. Even lied about her identity when cops moved her away from her captors and asked her who she was. Was she "in love" with that monster and with him of her own volition?

Same thing with Jaycee Dugard. She had times where she had the physical freedom to run. And did not. She also lied at first about who she was. Wasnshe with him willingly?

The list goes on.

The fact that an abused and exploited teen is seen walking without chains with her predator does not mean she is some stubborn teenage delinquent trying to live out a romance with this old predator.

And to assume so is to totally discount and disbelieve family reports that: a) she told a sibling to look for her if she wasn't home by 6:00 pm. b) she kept excitedly pestering a brother to make sure he showed up for her confirmation that upcoming weekend. c) she hid from the predator on several occasions some just days before her disappearance, when he would show up at her work.

I believe all of that is true.

For many it seems hard to reconcile posts on SM she made about and to this guy, as well as emails they shared, and her behavior in grabbing belongings and going off with him, with a scared victim. How can both scenarios be true?

To me it's clear. Immaturity. Vulnerability. Manipulation. Exploitation. Control. Coercion. Abuse.



But didn't they release the sighting as soon as they got it and confirmed it? They got it Thursday.



Which supports the theory that this kid really didn't understand the reality of what the predator was intending. Why not bring many more clothes?

I heart you, Gitana. Thanks is not nearly enough for this post.


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