GUILTY TN - Six elementary students killed in Chattanooga school bus crash, 21 Nov 2016

[Jax49]

It disgusts me that there were so many complaints and NOTHING was done!

I couldn't agree more. IMHO, school districts that contract with outside companies to bus students need to rewrite those contracts to include the ability to reject drivers.

A principal who she saw the bus going too fast leaving the school should not have to try to find a way to get that driver out of the system. It should take one phone call!

Sorry, I have little patience when it comes to the safety of children.
Driving too fast, going a different route, etc., are not acceptable.

I'm curious to see if his speed can be determined. Based on the damage to the bus it must have hit with tremendous force. I can't believe it happened at 25 or 30 mph. Crime scene recreation will be critical to the case against the driver, imho.

 

[mmj5377]

We are in Texas and our school district also uses Durham and last year my girls bus driver would get mad at the kids and he would tap his breaks real fast and make the kids faces hit the back of the seats. I called up to Durham to complain and they didn't believe me. They told me that they checked his GPS that showed how fast he was going and it also has a dash cam and that he never slowed down when he wasn't supposed to. It tried to tell them that when you tap the breaks real fast and let up his speed wouldn't slow down. She told me that maybe my daughter had a vendetta against the driver and that she was lying. My girls were 9 and 6 at the time and I tried to tell them that there was 3 other parents that their kids were saying the same thing. Me and my husband called and emailed so many times that they just stopped calling us back or replying to our emails.

They loved riding the bus before that and thankfully I stay at home so they didn't have to ride it after that.

I knew something like this would happen and knowing that it could of been prevented because there were complaints makes me so angry.

 

[CARIIS]

This quote The driver of Bus No. 366, the child added, drove so that it felt “like the bus is going to flip over.” makes it sound like it was earlier in the week. I saw this child make that statement on the news after the crash, in direct relationship to event.

moo

Maybe denial here, but if it was as bad as this is -- he could have been stopped. NTSB will be able to determine speed etc so we will see.

I do not know - maybe I do not want to believe that if it is as bad as the

media is making it --- your fired --it not difficult.

Maybe I am hoping this is all overblown??

If all this pans out - his charges are fine.

At the same time from administrtion point of view if a staff memeber has a couple of complaints it makes sense that nothing would have happened yet.

I wish we could get verified info how many complaints, when etc for sure.

 

[KaaBoom]

really? that was their only option to get home?...to get on the bus?

they didn't have the option to walk home, ride a bike, parents pick them up, friend pick them up?

when you consider all the possibilities of how children arrive at school or get home from school, riding on a school bus is one of the safest ways,

ever heard of a child being abducted on their way to school, or their way home from school while riding on a bus?

Many of the school bus routes in Chattanooga are express routes traveling long distances. Do you expect the kids to walk or ride their bikes 20 miles down the freeway? Parents work. Even when I was a kid, having my parents give me a ride to school was not an option most of the time. Friend? Yeah, maybe if they have an adult friend who has a car, and nothing better to do, then chauffeur them to and from school. Unfortunately most people with cars, usually have to have jobs to pay for the car. So that is not an option for the vast majority of them.

So yes, they are required by law to attend school and the only way 99% of them are going to get there is to ride a school bus contracted by a cheap *advertiser censored* foreign company, driven by an inexperienced minimum wage driver, and supervised by a school district transportation supervisor, who doesn't like to hear complaints about it.

 

[K_Z]

Most school bus driver positions are not full time employment, but 0.6 or 0.8 FTE at best. So, there is a different "pool" of potential employees than for other jobs. School bus drivers need a "clean" driving and criminal record, clean drug tests, no smoking on the job, a commercial driver's license, and willingness to work a "split shift" that is less than FTE, while complying with '"no drugs, no alcohol" during the entire day that may span 12-15 hours if they do both morning and afternoon runs. And a willingness to work with children, adolescents, parents, and school districts. Believe it or not, there are not a lot of people willing (or qualified) to work for low wages under those conditions.

For those who do it well, professionally, conscientiously, and compassionately, it's like a calling for them. The best drivers are impeccably devoted to safety and the children's well-being. Unfortunately, the demands of the job, coupled with very low wages and benefits, mean that the pool of applicants is often shallow and less than ideal. Actually driving a bus is not difficult or a particularly skilled job. But situational awareness, maturity, mental health, judgement, and compassion are essential. Thankfully, most of the time we hire the drivers who approach children's school transportation as a serious and devoted calling.

But the reality is that a certain percentage of hires are just "not" very good people, and not good employees. Marginal people with poor interpersonal skills, immaturity, low education, weak commitment to safe and competent performance, and worrisome impulsive behaviors. That may sound harsh, but it's true. Johnthony Walker is one of those hires, IMO. He never should have been hired for a job like this, with such heavy responsibility for children, when he himself was so immature and irresponsible. But there you have it. He got the job despite a sketchy driving history and youthful immaturity, and continued in the job despite serious complaints, observed erratic driving by administrators, an accident 8 weeks before this one, poor job compliance and performance, and a bad attitude toward any criticism and improvement.

People like this shouldn't be hired for these kind of jobs, or retained with such poor performance, but even more disturbing is how difficult it is to get rid of them (fire them) when their performance is poor. That is something that affects the safety of all kids in public schools, IMO. That's something we should all be worried about.

 

[CARIIS]

Durnham bus:$14.39 hr

min wage $7.25

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=tenn mnimum wage

 

[Spellbound]

K_z, I agree with most (maybe all) of what you wrote. I wonder what type of qualifications the company has for these positions. Around here, until recently, school bus drivers were usually parents or retired parents in the local districts.... they probably had a little more emotional attachment to making sure the kids stayed safe since they either knew many/most of them directly.

Comparing bus drivers in cities with (pre-college) school bus drivers here .... on our local Univ of Mich campus, the drivers are a bit on the wild side in my opinion. It feels like they think they are driving a compact car as fast as they go around corners and through crowded streets. Not implying they are exceeding the local laws, just a bit too hasty for me. Of course that is my opinion and may not be actuality, but I never got over how overly confident they seem.

We are in Texas and our school district also uses Durham and last year my girls bus driver would get mad at the kids and he would tap his breaks real fast and make the kids faces hit the back of the seats. I called up to Durham to complain and they didn't believe me. They told me that they checked his GPS that showed how fast he was going and it also has a dash cam and that he never slowed down when he wasn't supposed to. It tried to tell them that when you tap the breaks real fast and let up his speed wouldn't slow down. She told me that maybe my daughter had a vendetta against the driver and that she was lying. My girls were 9 and 6 at the time and I tried to tell them that there was 3 other parents that their kids were saying the same thing. Me and my husband called and emailed so many times that they just stopped calling us back or replying to our emails.

They loved riding the bus before that and thankfully I stay at home so they didn't have to ride it after that.

I knew something like this would happen and knowing that it could of been prevented because there were complaints makes me so angry.

Curious if you reported this to the School Board or Superintendant, also. It just adds to my concerns for this school district and the use of this company. If I was you, I might even consider contacting my local news. Very glad you were able to make different arrangements for your kids' transportation then.

Durnham bus:$14.39 hr

min wage $7.25

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=tenn mnimum wage

For the few hours a day they drove and were paid, that really is not much of an income. It definitely would not raise a family, nor likely a single person.

 

[JohnPaul]

I just really do not buy all this guys. He came back clean all this insane driving all around some small city, a couple of complaints , dont really buy it - it is tragic yes, but I feel as if a lot of this is lawsuit stuff.

A yellow school bus, drag racing all over the city since April IMO is not credible only mo.

Apparently, the guy was a good father, worked two jobs to take care of his child

Has no criminal background--horrible yes

Teire children some of them thought he was going to fast. Two them. There are 40 kids on a bus that route.

Two folks filed something.

I think this was an accident, its physics, he went off the road on the right, overcorrected to the left, it flipped over, and the rest is what it is


If this dude was hauling all over town like this parent reaction, community reaction, school district reaction , contractor reaction would all be different since April.

The story that he yelled out everyone ready to die proved false.


He did not help horrified what he saw and heard. It was his fault, that's pretty traumatic in itself.

I think it was a horrible accident, people make mistakes all this he said in front of some boss that he does not care about kids, he has a child , that apparently he took care of.

He was off route- does not make him evil- might make him smart - faster.

There are no speeding tickets, and this yellow school bus for months tearing through this place for months just has no credibility IMO


It was a overreaction to going off to the right - he overcorrected (awareness) and physics overtook the rest of it

All this he said I hate you kids in front a boss defies logic - it is not what a father who is working two jobs to take care of his child would say.

He needed the job to take care of his child - would any of us say I hate my kids, in front of my boss, not translate to me being fired on the spot?? Its media nonsense imo.

The I will do it again disproven.

Is fatigue real , yes, were mistakes made yes, he is human, is this sad yes.

.
Only mo but to make this dude as a kid killer just does not fit

Single parent doing the best he can, does he go faster some days, he is tired, he has a kid to take care of, he has to work the next day at Amazon, stressed.

I totally get after impact sequence ended, I tried to remove some children, and it was too slippery (blood) to get any of them, pretty hard to see this - I shut down and go sit on a wall, That is hugely traumatic imo.

We shall see We are all angry, sad about this,



IMO only, I think this horrible- but to vilify him is way premature.


Only MO, he was tired, the bus went a little off to the right, he overcorrected, and the rest of the accident sequence occurred. .

At this point, I think he was tired and stressed

Humans make mistakes.....................................does not make them evil ; it makes them human

All of this is only mo

very well said.....i agree 100%

accidents happen, and always will happen....that does not make him a bad person....<modsnip>

if any of us here were driving that bus the same thing would likely happen, <modsnip>

put yourself in another persons shoes before you assume the worst of them,

 

[Jax49]

[h=1]When an accident is the result of reckless behavior it becomes a crime.

39-13-213 - Vehicular Homicide[/h]39-13-213. Vehicular homicide.
(a) Vehicular homicide is the reckless killing of another by the operation of an automobile, airplane, motorboat or other motor vehicle, as the proximate result of:
(1) Conduct creating a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury to a person;

 

[Elley Mae]

very well said.....i agree 100%

accidents happen, and always will happen....that does not make him a bad person....get over it

if any of us here were driving that bus the same thing would likely happen, would any of you like to be crucified and have your life ruined because of an accident?

put yourself in another persons shoes before you assume the worst of them,

An accident that he was on the wrong road?

An accident that he was traveling twice the speed limit?

An accident that he had multiple complaints?

The only accident I see is that he was hired. jmo

 

[JohnPaul]

An accident that he was on the wrong road?

An accident that he was traveling twice the speed limit?

An accident that he had multiple complaints?

The only accident I see is that he was hired. jmo

that is all speculation and assumed at this point,

the internet has made it too easy to destroy peoples lives without knowing all the facts, this is a perfect example along with the teacher grabbing the microphone,

 

[Elley Mae]

that is all speculation and assumed at this point,

the internet has made it too easy to destroy peoples lives without knowing all the facts, this is a perfect example along with the teacher grabbing the microphone,

The road the bus crashed on was the wrong road, that's a fact.



There&#8217;s one key possibility authorities have already homed in on: speed.

The school bus, which had dozens of children onboard, was barreling down a narrow and winding road Monday afternoon, according to an arrest affidavit.

&#8220;Mr. Walker lost control of the bus and swerved off of the roadway to the right, striking an elevated driveway and mailbox, swerved to the left and began to overturn, striking a telephone pole and a tree,&#8221; the affidavit says.

Witness statements and physical evidence showed that Walker was traveling &#8220;at a high rate of speed, well above the posted speed limit of 30 mph,&#8221; according to the affidavit.

http://ktla.com/2016/11/22/driver-i...ll-above-posted-speed-limit-arrest-affidavit/


bbm

 

[JohnPaul]

The road the bus crashed on was the wrong road, that's a fact.



There&#8217;s one key possibility authorities have already homed in on: speed.

The school bus, which had dozens of children onboard, was barreling down a narrow and winding road Monday afternoon, according to an arrest affidavit.

&#8220;Mr. Walker lost control of the bus and swerved off of the roadway to the right, striking an elevated driveway and mailbox, swerved to the left and began to overturn, striking a telephone pole and a tree,&#8221; the affidavit says.

Witness statements and physical evidence showed that Walker was traveling &#8220;at a high rate of speed, well above the posted speed limit of 30 mph,&#8221; according to the affidavit.

http://ktla.com/2016/11/22/driver-i...ll-above-posted-speed-limit-arrest-affidavit/


bbm

so what if he was on the wrong road, does that make him a horrible person?....you have never taken a detour in your life to avoid traffic etc etc?

maybe the accident would have been WORSE if he was on route, killing all the kids, would that be better?

<modsnip>

i use common sense and form my own opinions about things,

<modsnip>

im not blaming this guy until the proof is there in front of me, and so far it aint

 

[Spellbound]

very well said.....i agree 100%

accidents happen, and always will happen....that does not make him a bad person....get over it

if any of us here were driving that bus the same thing would likely happen, would any of you like to be crucified and have your life ruined because of an accident?

put yourself in another persons shoes before you assume the worst of them,

BBM:

I don't understand what you mean by this. Seems highly unlikely this would/could happen to most people if driving within the speed limit, being an observant driver, mindful of having a bus load of students. We would have to reconstruct the exact actions of this driver for it to happen like is reported.

I have tried putting myself in this driver's shoes, so to speak, and cannot imagine his disregard for the safety of his passengers .... assuming all is true that we have heard so far. And if it turns out reports have been incorrect, then I would be more than happy to make apologies. Just like any case, LE will start with the closest persons and work out from there. The closest person in this case is the driver.

JMO

 

[JohnPaul]

I have tried putting myself in this driver's shoes, so to speak, and cannot imagine his disregard for the safety of his passengers .... assuming all is true that we have heard so far.

exactly my point,

wait till the investigation is over,

 

[Inthedetails]

I couldn't agree more. IMHO, school districts that contract with outside companies to bus students need to rewrite those contracts to include the ability to reject drivers.

A principal who she saw the bus going too fast leaving the school should not have to try to find a way to get that driver out of the system. It should take one phone call!

Sorry, I have little patience when it comes to the safety of children.
Driving too fast, going a different route, etc., are not acceptable.

I'm curious to see if his speed can be determined. Based on the damage to the bus it must have hit with tremendous force. I can't believe it happened at 25 or 30 mph. Crime scene recreation will be critical to the case against the driver, imho.

I wish the school personnel who saw him drive too fast would've called 911 and let an officer pull him over. I'm sure the school often feels like hands are tied when working with a contractor - the school probably doesn't have immediate authority over the driver. But they do have responsibility for the kids, and LE has authority to stop a driver. Then, at least the school then would have documentation to move forward to get the driver fired.

20/20 hindsight, I know!!

But sometimes working with the red tape of bureaucracies requires working the system - and calling 911 on a fast driver might have worked.

FWIW, I don't think the driver intended to kill children. I do think he was in the habit of driving unsafely and making very bad decisions.


jmopinion at the moment.

 

[JohnPaul]

A principal who she saw the bus going too fast leaving the school should not have to try to find a way to get that driver out of the system. It should take one phone call!

why should the principal have the authority to fire a bus driver, based on their own opinion?

you can not decide the fate of somebodies job based on one persons opinion, on one single event, get real,

the principal thought the bus was going too fast?....did they have a radar gun?.....what is their opinion of "too fast"??

what if the principal simply did not like the bus driver, and made up the story of him driving too fast?.....should he lose his job?.....im sure you wouldn't like that if you were in his position,

 

[Jax49]

why should the principal have the authority to fire a bus driver, based on their own opinion?

you can not decide the fate of somebodies job based on one persons opinion, on one single event, get real,

the principal thought the bus was going too fast?....did they have a radar gun?.....what is their opinion of "too fast"??

what if the principal simply did not like the bus driver, and made up the story of him driving too fast?.....should he lose his job?.....im sure you wouldn't like that if you were in his position,

I said rejected from that school. Doesn't mean he/she couldn't have another job with the company; of course, none of that is a perfect solution.

I like the suggestion above that 911 should have been called.

 

[Elley Mae]

Another student wrote: &#8220;The bus driver was doing sharp turns and he made me fly over to the next seat. We need seat belts.&#8221;

According to Woodmore Elementary School records provided to CBS News, six students complained on Nov. 16 that Walker had tried to make them fall over while driving. There were other complaints about Walker cursing at the students.

On Nov. 2, a school official boarded the bus after the driver complained that students were not listening him. One student had complained about the heat on the bus and cursed about it to the bus driver.

&#8220;The driver was now visibly upset and continued on by saying that he had another job and driving this bus was just a part-time job for him,&#8221; wrote Carlis Shackelford, a behavior specialist at the school. &#8220;Driver stated that he could just leave him at the school. He then stated &#8216;or I can just leave the student on the bus and I will get off the bus and leave the school.&#8217;&#8221;

&#8220;Driver stated that he did not care about the students and proceeded to tell the students he did not care about them,&#8221; Shackelford wrote.


The complaints about Walker appear to have begun in September when a parent wrote a letter to complain that the driver had cursed her kids and slammed on the brakes, causing them to hit their heads and fall out of their seats.

The parent wrote that if it happened again, she would take it upon herself &#8220;to beat his (expletive) my damn self.&#8221;

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chattanooga-tennessee-school-bus-crash-johntony-walker-complaints/

He's not going anywhere soon, from the county jail to court and then the big house. watch. jmo

 

[SCHMAE]

He's got 6 homicide charges for one. So LE does think he is at fault. Accident investigators can tell by the damage to a vehicle in a crash whether or not speed was involved. Inside a residential area the speed limit is 20 or 30 mph TOPS, but mostly 20. I could tell looking that he was not going 20 when he hit that tree. I am sure he's regretful. I think you can tell by his mug shot ( again because he was arrested after the ' accident' ) that he's probably regretful. But regret doesn't take away all your responsibility after the fact.