Transgenders express sex change regret...

[ArianeEmory]

I'm very familiar with all these issues, and I've never seen "cis" used as derogatory. Subsets of people being jerks don't get to own the language, no matter how wacky the Internet is getting right now. Interesting (and occasionally coded) tangent the thread has taken, though. I guess this is the Next Big Thing now that gay marriage is all over but the shouting, and I'm very sorry to see it happen.

Meanwhile, I can't recommend the TV series "Transparent" on Amazon highly enough.

 

[K_Z]

A fascinating, and very respectful discussion here in this thread, and I'd like to thank everyone for their input.

When I was a student nurse anesthetist, many moons ago, I administered several anesthetics to a sex reassignment patient. This individual was M2F, but living again as a male....but with lots of genitourinary issues from the M2F surgery.

I do remember that even though this person had had a number of surgeries in our facility, something in the computer system had to be altered to allow the same patient to have their gender changed, then changed again in subsequent admissions. I will refer to this patient as male, since the last time I cared for him he was living again as a male, and had gone off female hormones, had a full beard again from being on testosterone again, breast implants removed, etc. I don't have a lot of experience with gender re-assignment patients, but this man had a tremendous amount of genito-urinary issues that were addressed in surgery, and chronic incontinence. He was really distressed about this, as I recall (anyone would be!)-- and it had the most impact on his life. He also had a rectovaginal fistula, with stool leakage, complicating matters. Very embarrassing, and most unpleasant for him. I suspect he didn't have much of a sex life, due to his medical issues.

His original surgery took place in the 80's, so he was nearly 20 years out from the original surgery. From what I remember, he said he had some degree of urinary incontinence pretty much continuously since then, and was catheter dependent-- which is pretty unusual nowadays, as I understand it. Anyway, he was a very open and confident man, and made me feel very at ease the first time I interviewed him and cared for him (a little role reversal there!). A very kind person, saddled with really unpleasant and awful chronic genitourinary issues from the original surgery.

Interestingly, his ex wife and teen age daughter were still very close to him, and I remember meeting them both in the pre-op holding area. What a complex set of social issues for the teen daughter to have to process at such a young age.

I certainly would never have asked him about "regrets", but at the time I definitely wondered privately if he regretted his original surgery. I remember some of the staff kind of said "buyers regret" in a sad way when discussing his diagnosis, but no one said anything unkind or prejudicial, that I remember. I think we all just felt so sorry for what he had to live with at home. I haven't thought about him for a long time, but I really hope that his doctors have been able to improve some of the problems he had. He had probably had a dozen or more procedures at the time I met him, and I suspect he never imagined that the original surgery would have created such problems in the years to come. Certainly he had many, many more complications than is typical-- or else no one would ever want to have M2F surgery.

The article is very eye opening-- I absolutely had no idea that re-transitioning back to the birth gender was controversial in the transgender community. I kind of thought their whole mission was "live and let live"-- nonjudgmental. Very interesting, and thanks for posting it.

 

[ArianeEmory]

K_Z, briefly: the trans community, as I've learned in the last year, can be just as fractious and stratified as everyone else. I have a lot of respect for Laverne Cox (first Emmy-nominated trans actress, and activist). She's been keeping it super classy, even when reporters ask her unbelievably tacky questions.

I always find your medical insights interesting. I don't know a lot about gender-reassignment surgery, but I imagine that even in 2014 it's still a long and difficult road, and I'm sure that just piles on to the problems a person with gender dysphoria already has.

 

[forthelost]

gxm - Out of curiosity, is a person with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome male or female?

 

[mmmagique]

My dd told me a few weeks ago that she feels that she wants to be a guy. She is almost 14. She says she still likes guys but is "open minded" I have an appointment set up with a psychologist who specializes in transgender issues. Hopefully she will help my daughter discover what it is she wants and needs in her life and help her to acquire it. I am here for her whether she is eventually a man, a woman, or something else of her own definition. I will say that I worry about her a lot (the world is unkind to those who are different) but hopefully counseling will pave the way for her future happiness. She's rather sad now as she sees herself as a boy, but thinks no boy will want a f to m boy, and no female will either. I hope counseling will help her resolve some of these issues.

This is all a bit confusing to me, even though I am about as open-minded as they come. I do fetish related telephone work (my dd has no idea) but I was definitely taken aback when she came to me with her issues.

I don't take cis as anything offensive at all. It's just another way to describe someone who is comfortable in the skin they were born in. (and that's ok!)

Thanks to the person who recommended transparent. I'll definitely look into that.

 

[LaborDayRN]

My dd told me a few weeks ago that she feels that she wants to be a guy. She is almost 14. She says she still likes guys but is "open minded" I have an appointment set up with a psychologist who specializes in transgender issues. Hopefully she will help my daughter discover what it is she wants and needs in her life and help her to acquire it. I am here for her whether she is eventually a man, a woman, or something else of her own definition. I will say that I worry about her a lot (the world is unkind to those who are different) but hopefully counseling will pave the way for her future happiness. She's rather sad now as she sees herself as a boy, but thinks no boy will want a f to m boy, and no female will either. I hope counseling will help her resolve some of these issues.

This is all a bit confusing to me, even though I am about as open-minded as they come. I do fetish related telephone work (my dd has no idea) but I was definitely taken aback when she came to me with her issues.

I don't take cis as anything offensive at all. It's just another way to describe someone who is comfortable in the skin they were born in. (and that's ok!)

Thanks to the person who recommended transparent. I'll definitely look into that.

Your dd is very lucky to have you. Bless you both. It's a journey neither of you will have to take alone.

 

[Nova]

I'm so impressed, mmmagique! Who among us wouldn't have wanted a mother like you when we were 14?

(To be fair, my folks were, for the time, pretty accepting of my gayness, but you've got 'em beat, hands down!)

If I may, let me add that, yes, there are difficulties in being different, but there are advantages as well.

 

[mmmagique]

Thanks everyone. I am very nervous as this is uncharted territory for us, but I feel better having made a few small steps.

 

[Sonya610]

Secondly, it was my understanding that only a small percentage of transsexuals undergo the genital surgery. Is that no longer true?

I don't have numbers but I believe that is true. Also the current state of F2M genital surgery is not that great so many forgo it entirely.

The hormones (and breast removal) will provide most all of the changes needed to live/pass as the opposite gender (and in the case of M2F if the hormones don't do enough surgery isn't likely to help).

If someone starts having doubts about surgery yet they HAVE been on hormones for a couple of years their body has already undergone significant PERMANENT changes so the actual surgery isn't really the only deciding point.

My dd told me a few weeks ago that she feels that she wants to be a guy. She is almost 14. She says she still likes guys but is "open minded" I have an appointment set up with a psychologist who specializes in transgender issues. Hopefully she will help my daughter discover what it is she wants and needs in her life and help her to acquire it.

Well one thing you can assure your daughter of is that "time is on her side" (unlike m2f teens her age, for them puberty can all but destroy any hope of looking like a genetic female).

F2M transitions can happen at any time of life with pretty good results so there is no rush. Hormones to increase height would be the only thing that could change future results and I doubt if they even give those to young F2M teens.

Look at Buck Angel as an example, s/he was a fashion model and is now a pre-op F2M "gay male" *advertiser censored* star.

 

[mmmagique]

I'll know more after her first counseling session but from the reading I've been doing, they do recommend hormones as soon as possible. Even for young teens. But maybe that's just internet bs.

 

[Sonya610]

I'll know more after her first counseling session but from the reading I've been doing, they do recommend hormones as soon as possible. Even for young teens. But maybe that's just internet bs.

For M2F yes, but for F2M??? I can't imagine why unless there was a fear the female would develop hips as wide as a barn door, and even then I would doubt most doctors would rush into writing scripts.

Hormones are a very serious decision with lifelong affects and since females can easily transition at any age the benefits of "being sure" far far outweigh the risks of permanent physical changes that may be a mistake.

JMO but if I had a 14 year old daughter that suddenly decided she wanted to switch genders I would buy her an ace bandage and some baggy clothes and say "go for it, start living your life as a male, and when you are 18 you can decide if you want to take this further".

 

[EmmaliLucia]

I think that they have medication out there that can delay puberty if she is undecided right now.

It would save the extreme dysphoria that many trans* teenagers feel

 

[Snoopster]

My dd told me a few weeks ago that she feels that she wants to be a guy. She is almost 14. She says she still likes guys but is "open minded" I have an appointment set up with a psychologist who specializes in transgender issues. Hopefully she will help my daughter discover what it is she wants and needs in her life and help her to acquire it. I am here for her whether she is eventually a man, a woman, or something else of her own definition. I will say that I worry about her a lot (the world is unkind to those who are different) but hopefully counseling will pave the way for her future happiness. She's rather sad now as she sees herself as a boy, but thinks no boy will want a f to m boy, and no female will either. I hope counseling will help her resolve some of these issues.

This is all a bit confusing to me, even though I am about as open-minded as they come. I do fetish related telephone work (my dd has no idea) but I was definitely taken aback when she came to me with her issues.

I don't take cis as anything offensive at all. It's just another way to describe someone who is comfortable in the skin they were born in. (and that's ok!)

Thanks to the person who recommended transparent. I'll definitely look into that.

Bless you mmmagique. Luckily I haven't had to deal with any of this stuff with the people that I love. You sound like you have your head screwed on straight. Your daughter is lucky. All I know is that I can't imagine what it is like to not feel comfortable in your skin. How confusing it must be and how cruel society can be, as well.

 

[Teche]

Your child is blessed to have you as a parent!

 

[jjenny]

I'll know more after her first counseling session but from the reading I've been doing, they do recommend hormones as soon as possible. Even for young teens. But maybe that's just internet bs.

I don't agree with this at all. How do they know this is not a confused teenager who will change his/her mind later on?
There could be all kinds of side effects from hormones. So it's not like it's harmless.

http://www.femaletomale.org/ftm-transitioning-guide/testosterone-hrt/testosterone-side-effects/

 

[Nova]

I don't agree with this at all. How do they know this is not a confused teenager who will change his/her mind later on?
There could be all kinds of side effects from hormones. So it's not like it's harmless.

http://www.femaletomale.org/ftm-transitioning-guide/testosterone-hrt/testosterone-side-effects/

I assume the poster in question is going to a counselor who is an expert on transsexuality. It's not as if she said she was buying a home kit at Walmart.

Everyone agrees that hormone therapy has potential side effects. (This is true at any age, actually.) But doing nothing also has consequences (permanent ones) for a transsexual young person.

Which is why I wouldn't begin to form an opinion as to whether hormones or surgery is right for any individual.

 

[Sonya610]

I assume the poster in question is going to a counselor who is an expert on transsexuality. It's not as if she said she was buying a home kit at Walmart.

Which is why I wouldn't begin to form an opinion as to whether hormones or surgery is right for any individual.

I also wouldn't assume every "expert" is trust worthy and free from personal bias or agendas.

From what I understand the brains of F2M transexuals actually have a noticeable "male" structure to them (m2f is much less defined). They believe it may be a hormonal problem in the womb, the brain develops male but the body stays female.

IMO as a parent I wouldn't even consider hormones or anything else on a teen "girl" unless there was strong evidence to suggest it is the right decision, in fact maybe not even then as years of testosterone use can have very negative consequences later in life so why start the clock ticking earlier than necessary.

Two decades ago one of my favorite veterinarians in California decided to go through a sex change in her 50's (F2M) and she explained the differences in brain development even back then (she was well known and was considered one of the top vets in Silicon Valley, no one was all that surprised when she decided to change genders, plus she had been with the same female partner for many years so it wasn't a big change of lifestyle). She said they believe it is a hormonal problem that occurs in the womb, the brain develops male but the body does not. (I guess I should refer to her as a he now, however I moved out of state and never saw "him" after the change).

The point is a sex change (especially involving a young teen female) is not just about how the person "feels at the time", there is often physical evidence too support the decision especially in F2M.

They found significant differences between male and female brains in four regions of white matter – and the female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain (Journal of Psychiatric Research, DOI: 10.1016/j.jpsychires.2010.05.006). "It's the first time it has been shown that the brains of female-to-male transsexual people are masculinised," Guillamon says.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...rences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VHMj0ckrh0A

 

[Nova]

I also wouldn't assume every "expert" is trust worthy and free from personal bias or agendas.

From what I understand the brains of F2M transexuals actually have a noticeable "male" structure to them (m2f is much less defined). They believe it may be a hormonal problem in the womb, the brain develops male but the body stays female.

IMO as a parent I wouldn't even consider hormones or anything else on a teen "girl" unless there was strong evidence to suggest it is the right decision, in fact maybe not even then as years of testosterone use can have very negative consequences later in life so why start the clock ticking earlier than necessary.

Two decades ago one of my favorite veterinarians in California decided to go through a sex change in her 50's (F2M) and she explained the differences in brain development even back then (she was well known and was considered one of the top vets in Silicon Valley, no one was all that surprised when she decided to change genders, plus she had been with the same female partner for many years so it wasn't a big change of lifestyle). She said they believe it is a hormonal problem that occurs in the womb, the brain develops male but the body does not. (I guess I should refer to her as a he now, however I moved out of state and never saw "him" after the change).

The point is a sex change (especially involving a young teen female) is not just about how the person "feels at the time", there is often physical evidence too support the decision especially in F2M.

I'm trying to understand your position, Sonya. If a young person presents with the F2M brain pattern, would you oppose puberty delay therapy in such a case? Because that strikes me as a reasonable indicator FOR the hormone treatment. Yes, I know it's serious; but as I said doing nothing also has serious, permanent consequences.

(And, yes, I know all experts aren't perfect. But unless you have credentials you haven't mentioned, such experts are still more knowledgable than you and I. (I apologize if I have underestimated your expertise on this subject. Your posts are very sharp and I have already agreed that to intervene is a serious decision that shouldn't be undertaken on a whim. I'm just reminding us that the decision NOT to intervene should be whim-based either.)

You didn't say this, but we should be careful of the bias that "doing nothing" is somehow "more natural" and therefore safer. It may be more "natural" to leave scoliosis untreated, but it's hardly better for the patient.

 

[K_Z]

As a health care professional, and a parent, I've been trying to educate myself more about teens and hormone therapy/ puberty blockers. I think it's definitely not something to be undertaken lightly, nor do I think someone should undertake this course of treatment without considerable evaluation by a team of reputable experts, and probably a second and third opinion.

This is such a drastic measure that I would have to consider it in the same category as a life threatening illness for a child (which some say it is, due to psych/ emotional trauma), and seek A LOT of expert opinions, seeking consensus. Just as you would with a serious diagnosis. To permanently alter a child's birth gender before puberty is an enormous decision.

My gut instinct says have the child/ teen live in the preferred gender until the child is at least 18, and then let them pursue hormones and surgery as an adult. But I do also understand the horror some kids may feel as they grow breasts and menstruate, yet identify as male, or grow facial hair, and identify as a female.

It's a very, very tough issue to contemplate on behalf of a young teen, and to make sure one is advocating in the child's "whole life and health" best interests. I don't worry so much about adults choosing transgender surgery or hormones, because their judgment, maturity, and ability to weigh decisions is different than for teens. But I completely understand some kids are literally born identifying with the opposite gender. I don't think hormone treatment is for every transgender child or teen, but for those that are very carefully selected and continuously and thoroughly monitored during treatment. I also think ongoing psychological counseling should be a mandatory part of the therapeutic plan, for the teen, as well as the key members of the family.

I'm open minded, but just as obesity surgery for teens is controversial, I think we have to be very careful to set up care systems for these children/ teens to make sure that they are evaluated appropriately for the therapy, and receive expert continuing care and follow through by a team of providers. I don't think "one" rogue physician should be treating these kids alone in a vacuum-- this kind of therapy, IMO, requires a continuous team approach, at least until the teen turns 18.

Here's an interesting story about a UK teen, "I Am Leo", a documentary about a young teen on puberty blockers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...following-transgender-teen-s-journey-boy.html

http://www.kidsinthehouse.com/teena...berty-blockers-and-hormones-transgender-youth

 

[Snoofo]

To mmmagique and anyone else out there who may be interested. There is a chapter called Transgender in the book Far From The Tree that is a very worthwhile read. I'm sure it will bring you comfort and good information. Incredible reading overall.