Trayvon Martin's Autopsy

[LambChop]

Exactly. Regardless of caliber or ammunition used (i.e., hollow point, FMJ, etc)

Another thing I was taught during firearms training. Don't buy a gun unless you're willing to take a life. The main reason for this approach is, if you buy a gun for, say protection, and you've not made that important decision, the burglar who you may be trying to protect your home against could easily turn the tables and shoot you, if you were undecided whether you were willing to shoot him/her.

I realize the above is harsh but I do think it is important that people who *choose* to own firearms see them as *truly* lethal weapons. Regardless of what their reasoning for getting them is.

This is all, JMO, of course.

And isn't that why GZ should have used that training knowledge, information for NWP and the directions from LE to not get out of his car and follow. If what you say is true GZ knew there was a potential for using his gun. jmo

 

[Reader]

This is very sad, but at one point in the video Trayvon seems to touch or tap the button...almost as if he is checking to see if it is still there or secure.

It is sad because in an earlier interview his mother stated this was a button in honor of a mentor of his who had recently died. Don't have the link now but posted before way back.

Very sad to think he was checking on that remembrance button, not knowing that he would be dead in 30 minutes and have so much remembrance of his
own life.

 

[elementary]

And isn't that why GZ should have used that training knowledge, information for NWP and the directions from LE to not get out of his car and follow. If what you say is true GZ knew there was a potential for using his gun. jmo

And let's not forget, using hollow point bullets in order to further ensure a kill.

 

[persnickety]

It is sad because in an earlier interview his mother stated this was a button in honor of a mentor of his who had recently died. Don't have the link now but posted before way back.

Very sad to think he was checking on that remembrance button, not knowing that he would be dead in 30 minutes and have so much remembrance of his
own life.

I agree. It's so heartbreaking to me. There was absolutely no reason why Trayvon had to die that night.



my opinion only

 

[elementary]

Not all bodies were a perfect as TM's was. Some could have been in water, out in the elements, degraded, etc. It had just happened. TM still had a tear on his face. Which reminds me. Would it make sense that this unafraid, would be criminal would be crying? Crying to the point of screaming? And with all that blood from the back of GZ's head if TM was bashing it on the cement, GZ has not hair. TM would have had to use his hands, would he not???? jmo

Which brings up another question and I don't know in which thread to place it: With all that blood from GZ, wouldn't there be blood on the sidewalk somewhere?

Oy, I did not know Trayvon had a tear on his face. Geeeeeeez.

 

[LambChop]

Which brings up another question and I don't know in which thread to place it: With all that blood from GZ, wouldn't there be blood on the sidewalk somewhere?

Oy, I did not know Trayvon had a tear on his face. Geeeeeeez.

Mr. Martin said when LE showed him the picture of Trayvon from the night before he had a tear on his cheek from his eye. I'm assuming he knew it was a tear and not rain because tears usually leave a little trail (a mark) on your face. jmo

 

[katydid23]

Hey Lambchop,
OT/ I just saw on HLN that Gary Giordono was just arrested for indecent exposure.

 

[K_Z]

I'd like to comment about the "tear" that has been documented on TM's cheek. Many have ascribed this tear as resulting from emotional upset/ fear that TM experienced at the time of death, or shortly before. I think there is a different physiological explanation.

A person experiencing the "fight or flight" reaction is responding to the adrenergic stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system. In other words, responding to endogenous catecholamines ("adrenalin"). In short, this produces dry mouth, blood shunted from gastrointestinal digestion, etc. Not typically eye watering/ lacrimation.

TM was shot in the heart, producing sudden and complete vagolysis. Parasympathetic cholinergic innervation of the heart is controlled by the vagus nerve. When parasympathetic cholinergic receptors are stimulated, lacrimation (eye watering) can occur, among other things (increased salivation, increased espohageal and bronchial secretions, etc.) We see this regularly with the expected effects of many of our anesthetic drugs and inhalational agents. We use anticholinergic meds to counteract these effects, when necessary. (Atropine, glycopyrollate, etc.)

I think a possible physiologic explanation is that the tear on his cheek was a reflex (death process) reaction of the afferent nerves of the parasympathetic nervous system to the GSW to the heart, sending information back to the central nervous system, which produced the lacrimation (eye watering).

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasympathetic_nervous_system"]Parasympathetic nervous system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[elementary]

I'd like to comment about the "tear" that has been documented on TM's cheek. Many have ascribed this tear as resulting from emotional upset/ fear that TM experienced at the time of death, or shortly before. I think there is a different physiological explanation.

A person experiencing the "fight or flight" reaction is responding to the adrenergic stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system. In other words, responding to endogenous catecholamines ("adrenalin"). In short, this produces dry mouth, blood shunted from gastrointestinal digestion, etc. Not typically eye watering/ lacrimation.

TM was shot in the heart, producing sudden and complete vagolysis. Parasympathetic cholinergic innervation of the heart is controlled by the vagus nerve. When parasympathetic cholinergic receptors are stimulated, lacrimation (eye watering) can occur, among other things (increased salivation, increased espohageal and bronchial secretions, etc.) We see this regularly with the expected effects of many of our anesthetic drugs and inhalational agents. We use anticholinergic meds to counteract these effects, when necessary. (Atropine, glycopyrollate, etc.)

I think a possible physiologic explanation is that the tear on his cheek was a reflex (death process) reaction of the afferent nerves of the parasympathetic nervous system to the GSW to the heart, sending information back to the central nervous system, which produced the lacrimation (eye watering).

Parasympathetic nervous system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or he had been crying in fear and this was indeed, a tear of distress left behind.

 

[K_Z]

Or he had been crying in fear and this was indeed, a tear of distress left behind.

Sure-- that is another potential explanation. I'm just pointing out that there is often more than one possible explanation for something. In this case, there is a very plausible physiological (scientific) explanation that can also be a possibility, that is not dependent on a particular emotional state preceeding the shooting.

Saying there was a "tear" in his eye, and making a leap to a particular emotional state, and then another leap to the circumstances of the shooting, is not logical. Particularly because fear is a sympathetic dominant condition which would be less likely to produce tears.

 

[Karmady]

Or he had been crying in fear and this was indeed, a tear of distress left behind.

yes, if we <modsnip> and ignore the physiological likelihoods and the fact that it was raining. jmo

 

[rossva]

Or it was an actual raindrop.

Or he had been crying in fear and this was indeed, a tear of distress left behind.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I have never been shot, but I'd have to believe it hurts like hell...burns like hell and it could be quite possible he was starting to cry when his heart just stopped pumping blood..

It's an horrific last image of their healthy son to have to see him that way at all...if not for GZ....and it all goes back to him...

the more I read, the more I see folk taking his side as he was right in what he's done, I fear that bad behavior is well welcomed in a civilized society..being a survivor of homicide, I can tell you, you never stop missing your loved one, you never stop thinking what he would have become had he lived to fulfill his dreams...you never stop grieving....it seems there is no empathy anymore in this world as bad behavior is embraced...Ive walked in those shoes and still walk in them today and this all could have been avoided if GZ just stayed in his vehicle...but it appears <modsnip> can do no wrong..and that's the troubling part for me...I believe he should have been arrested at the crime scene and if he had, there'd be no split...

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun
George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239

In the autopsy report, TM has no DNA on GZ's weapon or did TM have it on his hands...so, what does this say about GZ if not lies?

I certainly hope if a jury is seated (if MOM doesn't recommend a plea deal before that) that take everything into consideration and that goes for GZ's embellishments and lies...I wonder why CSerino asked for manslaughter charges and not given to him that night? He must have seen things that GZ stated didn't match the crime scene and the fact he didn't follow the order, to not follow...his following TM is what started the confrontation and it's GZ who ended it with one POP to TM chest <modsnip>

 

[diesel]

If Trayvon had his hand(s) over GZ's mouth and nose while GZ's nose was bleeding, wouldn't DNA be all over his hand(s) including at least one fingernail. And on his sleeve cuffs, too. That pic that was posted of GZ taken with the iPhone, too - wouldn't there be blood smeared all over GZ's face from twisting and turning underneath Trayvon's hand(s)?

JMO

 

[joypath]

If Trayvon had his hand(s) over GZ's mouth and nose while GZ's nose was bleeding, wouldn't DNA be all over his hand(s) including at least one fingernail. And on his sleeve cuffs, too. That pic that was posted of GZ taken with the iPhone, too - wouldn't there be blood smeared all over GZ's face from twisting and turning underneath Trayvon's hand(s)?

JMO

BBM/U


Excellent question and in fact presents some of the logical questions one SHOULD ask to evaluate the second participant in the altercation, the one who can SPEAK on his own to tell "the story"!

DNA is transfered from one individual via celluar material, that's a fact....so in the above scenario, the opportunity to "pick up" GZ's DNA occurs via 1. saliva (epithelial cells within the oral cavity being shed), 2. blood (leukocytes (White blood cells) within the fluid, flowing blood stream), 3. nasal secretions (more phagocytic cells (white blood cells, differing type and the squamous and columnar (pseudostratified) epithelial cells of the nasal cavity being shed) and 4. skin ("good ole" epithelial cells, any layer or type). Any and all of the above cells contain nuclear components which has the DNA present.
BUT.....here's the "elephant in the room"......WAS the decedent's hands et al SECURELY protected from the elements of the night? Just the yellow tarp placed EVENTUALLY over him might NOT have been enough protection from the watery environment (rain falling, wet grass, puddles forming in depressions...etc.)
I also agree that unless the clothing worn by Trayvon was "Scotchguarded" or pushed up away from any contact, there should be some "wicking" of the bodily fluids of the other participant and/or "cast off" droplets as GZ struggled, turned, twisted, fought to get away & then fought to stand his ground.
All, JMO.

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/...lialInfoWeb/Ciliated Columnar Epithelium.html

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/...lialInfoWeb/Ciliated Columnar Epithelium.html

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/epithelial+cell

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/DNA

 

[zenreaper]

I have never been shot, but I'd have to believe it hurts like hell...burns like hell and it could be quite possible he was starting to cry when his heart just stopped pumping blood..

It's an horrific last image of their healthy son to have to see him that way at all...if not for GZ....and it all goes back to him...

the more I read, the more I see folk taking his side as he was right in what he's done, I fear that bad behavior is well welcomed in a civilized society..being a survivor of homicide, I can tell you, you never stop missing your loved one, you never stop thinking what he would have become had he lived to fulfill his dreams...you never stop grieving....it seems there is no empathy anymore in this world as bad behavior is embraced...Ive walked in those shoes and still walk in them today and this all could have been avoided if GZ just stayed in his vehicle...but it appears <modsnip> can do no wrong..and that's the troubling part for me...I believe he should have been arrested at the crime scene and if he had, there'd be no split...

ANd TM would be alive if he had just stayed in his HOME that night. What's that you say, he had a RIGHT to leave his home? Well, GZ had a RIGHT to leave his vehicle. And you can keep repeating that ALL DAY LONG, but the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle was NOT grounds for TM to attack him, and ALL the evidence points in that direction, IMO.

 

[lisalei321]

BBM/U


Excellent question and in fact presents some of the logical questions one SHOULD ask to evaluate the second participant in the altercation, the one who can SPEAK on his own to tell "the story"!

DNA is transfered from one individual via celluar material, that's a fact....so in the above scenario, the opportunity to "pick up" GZ's DNA occurs via 1. saliva (epithelial cells within the oral cavity being shed), 2. blood (leukocytes (White blood cells) within the fluid, flowing blood stream), 3. nasal secretions (more phagocytic cells (white blood cells, differing type and the squamous and columnar (pseudostratified) epithelial cells of the nasal cavity being shed) and 4. skin ("good ole" epithelial cells, any layer or type). Any and all of the above cells contain nuclear components which has the DNA present.
BUT.....here's the "elephant in the room"......WAS the decedent's hands et al SECURELY protected from the elements of the night? Just the yellow tarp placed EVENTUALLY over him might NOT have been enough protection from the watery environment (rain falling, wet grass, puddles forming in depressions...etc.)
I also agree that unless the clothing worn by Trayvon was "Scotchguarded" or pushed up away from any contact, there should be some "wicking" of the bodily fluids of the other participant and/or "cast off" droplets as GZ struggled, turned, twisted, fought to get away & then fought to stand his ground.
All, JMO.

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/...lialInfoWeb/Ciliated Columnar Epithelium.html

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/...lialInfoWeb/Ciliated Columnar Epithelium.html

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/epithelial+cell

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/DNA

Joypath...will you be my new bff?

Even I understood what you were saying!

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

ANd TM would be alive if he had just stayed in his HOME that night. What's that you say, he had a RIGHT to leave his home? Well, GZ had a RIGHT to leave his vehicle. And you can keep repeating that ALL DAY LONG, but the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle was NOT grounds for TM to attack him, and ALL the evidence points in that direction, IMO.

Zen, you taking the words of a liar, there was nothing to show that TM attacked him at all...everything is pointing to GZ and GZ alone..

The state will drive that fact home, had he not left the security of his vehicle, TM would be alive today...that is the first premise the state took into consideration...he never should have left his vehicle as told to not follow...why is everyone not taking that into consideration....everything the state has written the first sentence is, TM death could have been avoided if GZ stayed in his vehicle..

So, you can drive the fact home that it was TM who started this, yet the DNA evidence states otherwise...NO DNA of GZ on TM's hands...so he must have been quite the magician to beat him to a bloody pulp and not get his DNA onto GZ...and this alleged struggle over the gun, no DNA of TM there either..Hmmmmmm GZ is a liar, is my belief.

It's looking more and more like it was GZ who started the entire scenario...

 

[cityslick]

Zen, you taking the words of a liar, there was nothing to show that TM attacked him at all...everything is pointing to GZ and GZ alone..

The state will drive that fact home, had he not left the security of his vehicle, TM would be alive today...that is the first premise the state took into consideration...he never should have left his vehicle as told to not follow...why is everyone not taking that into consideration....everything the state has written the first sentence is, TM death could have been avoided if GZ stayed in his vehicle..

So, you can drive the fact home that it was TM who started this, yet the DNA evidence states otherwise...NO DNA of GZ on TM's hands...so he must have been quite the magician to beat him to a bloody pulp and not get his DNA onto GZ...and this alleged struggle over the gun, no DNA of TM there either..Hmmmmmm GZ is a liar, is my belief.

It's looking more and more like it was GZ who started the entire scenario...

BBM

You cannot convict the man of 2nd degree murder simply because he got out of his car. I don't understand how any jury is going to convict primarily based off the fact he got out of his car.

Once you get beyond the 'getting out of the car', what other evidence is there that shows that GZ started or instigated the confrontation. Saying 'getting out of his car' is a reason for the confrontation makes no sense to me and IMO there is no way that is going to hold up in a courtroom as the reason TM is dead.