Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

[ATasteOfHoney]

So the goal is to prevent her from attacking other inmates or making shanks by analyzing her... How many inmates has she attacked so far in the 4.5 years she's been in jail? How many violent infractions? History shows she has killed a man, but not a woman. What men are in danger now?

No, I was just trying to point out that there are many reasons that some of us here on WS are discussing various aspects of the case. We have our reasons, we have our speculations, and so we can. Thanks.

 

[Quester]

If her plan were to include the roommate she would have had to kill TA within an hour of the roommate showing up. That is why I believe she waited until 5:30 to kill him. Roommate normally was home by 6pm.

If that were the case, and it very well could have been, why did she pre-arrange a mid-day meeting with Ryan in Utah? TIA

 

[TorisMom003]

It makes no sense to me that he would voluntarily sit in the bottom of this tiny shower. Something's just wrong IMO.

This is my post from a few pages back.

If you look at the progression of the photos, IMO, you can see when Travis realizes that Jodi is still in his house and is taking photos of him in the shower. At 5:27:18 is when I think that Travis realizes Jodi is there. At 5:28:54 it appears that Travis kind of slides down the wall of the shower to the floor because, IMO, he once again is having to deal with this chick that he thought he had gotten rid of. At 5:29:20 Travis is looking at Jodi with a look of, IMO, can you please just leave me the hello alone?!?! At 5:30:30 we have Travis sitting completely on the floor of the shower without his head showing. I think that it was at the point where Travis had had more than enough of Jodi, had thought she was gone and that he was alone, and then he was still having to deal with her anyway. Jodi told Flores (yes, we know she lies) that she didn't think Travis would let her take photos of him in the shower. I believe that she told the truth about that. I believe that she took those photos without his knowledge, until the one where he saw her. I believe he got upset with her about it, but did NOT attack her.

I bolded the part that deals with Travis on the floor of the shower and why he was sitting on the floor of the shower.

 

[TigerBalm]

If you wanted someone to really suffer, what would you do first.
Shot them possibly killing them instantly or stabbing them over and over, so they die a slow agonizing death?

The defendant likes to paint herself in the best light possible.
Since when has she told the truth besides stating her name?!

We know she did stab him multiple times, shot him once, and he died a heinous not humane death.


"I don't think I could stab him. I think I would have to shoot him until he was dead if that were my intentions," Arias told the detective.
"If I had it in me to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/jodi-arias-murder-trial-r_n_2569452.html

 

[Pink Panther]

The "room mates" were clearly not an issue for her. They weren't even the ones that found him five days later. A concerned (not a room mate) found him five days later.

 

[TorisMom003]

If that were the case, and it very well could have been, why did she pre-arrange a mid-day meeting with Ryan in Utah? TIA

One that she showed up to 24 hours late as well. It kindof defeats the purpose of an alibi when you arrive 24 hours later than you had planned.

MOO

 

[Pink Panther]

If you wanted someone to really suffer, what would you do first.
Shot them possibly killing them instantly or stabbing them over and over, so they die a slow agonizing death?

The defendant likes to paint herself in the best light possible.
Since when has she told the truth besides stating her name?!

We know she did stab him multiple times, shot him once, and he died a heinous not humane death.


"I don't think I could stab him. I think I would have to shoot him until he was dead if that were my intentions," Arias told the detective.
"If I had it in me to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/jodi-arias-murder-trial-r_n_2569452.html

I think she shot him first (naively thinking he would die immediately) and was appalled that he didn't die. She panicked and stabbed repeatedly until finally she slit his throat!

 

[TigerBalm]

I am not excusing anyone, but children in a family experience things differently based on many things. If a child is sexually abused, burned with cigarettes, and berated, is there no pity for that child who did not choose that life? If that child turns out to be a killer, that person must be kept away from the rest of us.

When I think of my family, my friends and the people I know who provide love, nurturing, opportunities, problem solving skills, academic enrichment, etc and then read about children starved and locked in a closet for years, I wonder about the justice of it all. Cosmic questions.

The death penalty is extremely expensive. The appeals alone make it far more expensive.

LWOP and we are done with her.

Just because someone goes to prison doesn't mean they don't ever have contact with humans ever again.
Prison staff are still in danger dealing with these monsters day in and day out.

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't think that her plans included the roommate at all. She had planned on how to best get Travis in a vernable position and she did. There is no way, IMO that she could expect to do the same thing with the roommate.

 

[lonetraveler]

It makes no sense to me that he would voluntarily sit in the bottom of this tiny shower. Something's just wrong IMO.

I agree. I just can not see anyone, female or male deciding to just slide down and voluntarily sit on the bottom of this shower. Way too vernable.

 

[K9 5er]

Stephanie - You did a recap of what you thought happened a few pages back and I agree with it completely. I can't find it now or I would have quoted from it! A few things I'd add...

- I think he kicked her out or she left (but on bad terms) and she snuck back in
- I think she took several of those shower photos without him realizing that she was there
- I think she scared the daylights out of him when she made it clear that she was there (by speaking to him while still photographing)

I'm torn about the picture of his face when he is already seated in the shower. I'm convinced that she had already shown him that she had a gun but I'm not sure as to whether she was threatening suicide or threatening him at that point. He doesn't look scared yet. He looks like he's trying to "reach" her through eye contact. So either, he's trying to settle her down not to hurt herself or not to hurt him but I'm not sure which...

Then all hell breaks loose. She shoots him and he DOESN"T JUST DIE! He manages (who knows what state - primal survival maybe) to stagger out of the shower and lift himself up with the counter in front of the mirror at the sink. (Blood spatters everywhere!). I think she only came "equipped" with the gun. I think she tried to shoot it again and it jammed. He got out and got to the sink while she ran back to the bedroom. According the DA there WAS A KNIFE IN THE BEDROOM that they had used for "tie up play". When the gun didn't shoot again and he kept moving around, I think she ran back the bedroom and got it. She stabbed him in the back at the sink and continued to do so as he stumbled out and then all fours along the hallway. She stabbed and stabbed and stabbed until finally desparately, she slashed his throat from behind while he was on all fours in the hallway entering the bedroom. (Hence the pool of blood there.) She dragged him back to the bathroom on a sheet, cleaned up as much as she could and left. I think TA could still have been alive at that point. Incapacitated and brain dead but still alive!

A brutal vicious murder but one that she initially thought she would handle with a single shot.

MOO

I tend to agree the gun was used first. She might have thought a shot to the head would have been enough to kill him. When he still showed signs of life she would have had to fire a 2nd round; maybe the gun jammed or there's one other scenario I've pondered. Anyone who has fired a gun outdoors knows how loud it sounds, at a range you'd wear ear plugs to protect your ears, so I couldn't imagine the sound of a round going off in an enclosed room (bathroom). Maybe she didn't anticipate how loud it would be until after the first shot and had to resort to plan "B" (the knife).


I do have a question cuz I missed some of the early details of this case. What was the check she gave TA for? A car payment? Did she use that as an excuse to stop by that night.

 

[minor4th]

I think I read in Flores' report that one of the roommates was home for part of the day, in the mid to late afternoon, in between doing things with his girlfriend. If that's the case, I think the reason Jodi waited until 5:30 to kill him is because she was waiting for the roommate to leave.

 

[amyfarrahfowler]

I suppose hitting her brother over the head with a baseball would be considered as a warning sign if it was over something she wanted. Some children think they are special and can get whatever they want. If they have the fortune of having a mother who thinks the same way it could spell trouble for the child. Some Mom's cover for their children when they know they have done wrong, go to bat for them, so to speak. They sometimes blame the victim...it's all your child's fault that my daughter threw a rock at your child. This can go on forever until the child is grown and they feel entitled to privileges no one else has. When denied chances are that child will be looking for a baseball bat until their hurt feelings are satisfied. Don't we see it a lot today with parents and their denial. Instead of making their child responsible, they cover up their indiscretions thereby avoiding them taking on that responsibility. It's not healthy for a child to experience this way of dealing with their mistakes. Mommy's not always going to be there. jmo

IMO it's a sad fact that SOME mommies ARE always going to try...

My boyfriend is a university dean and it just FLOORS me how many helicopter parents actually follow their offspring right into college to hover above them and to attempt to fight their children's fights FOR them, even in the dean's office! Their children are legally adults and yet Dean Fowler has to inform these zealous parents that he cannot discuss details about their children's situation due to privacy regulations and they get pissed at him for that. He has to point out to parents that they need to discuss their concerns with their children if they want more facts, and poor parents are so frustrated, but their children have been lying to them about WHY they've been suspended or about WHY they are flunking a class or whatever, and afraid to tell parents the truth and parents are just blindsided. :twocents::twocents:

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Dang, cleaned the house today so I could be ready for the trial and then went into my bathroom for something and saw disaster. Feathers all over everywhere, rugs bunched into a mess and everything turned over on the counter and my cat throwing a dead bird up into the air playing with it. She uses a cat door to go in and out of the house. :what: I feel horrible because I filled the bird feeder a couple of days above. Now, I feel like I set up dinner for her.

Awww, LT

I have a birdie death-in-the-house-by-cat story, as well.

Mr DD surprised me at our wedding with 2 white doves. We then kept them in a huge (!!) cage in our bedroom for 3 weeks afterwards. Didn't quite know what to do with them. Well, Mr DD had a cat when I married him....long story short, a family member got injured and we ran out the house to get to the hospital quickly...and in our running out of the house, our bedroom door didn't latch completely. We got home 3 hours later and there were white feathers with red blood throughout the whole 2 story house. Kitty had gotten into our room and knocked over the big cage. One bird was okay, the other, we thought had to be dead! .... Mr DD went and got the bird's body (what was left of it, I swear), put it in a plastic bag and went downstairs to throw it away. Right then, he realized it was still barely breathing...off to the emergency vet and 3 days there...we nursed that dove back to health via feeding it through a eye dropper, etc. But it really looked like a house of carnage. Ugh.

 

[darcedarce]

It makes no sense to me that he would voluntarily sit in the bottom of this tiny shower. Something's just wrong IMO.

I would sit down in it. It's not THAT small imo.

 

[LambChop]

Insightful and good points regarding the shower and the timing. However, I don't believe killing the roommate was part of her plan at all or she could have waited for him to come home. Perhaps from her being with Travis previously she knew he'd take a long, hot shower and she knew this would be the perfect place for her to get him cornered where he couldn't fight back. Or so she thought.

MOO

That could be but I do not see her waiting until the roommate came home. I don't think she could handle both of them at the same time. Usually the ME gives an approximate time of death when it's been days before a body is found. I don't think she is a particularly good planner. To go to all that planning only to wait until 5:30 to kill him makes me wonder why would she wait. We see pictures of him on the bed and it's pretty clear she could have shot him right there and been on her way. Plus why did she take those pictures, only to delete them and throw the camera in the washer at the last minute? To do what she had to do in the short period of time the roommate would have walked right into her because she had to still have been there.

The roommate said the furniture was fine in the morning and all the furniture was moved and a cleaner was in the middle of the floor when he got home. My guess is she threw the bloody towels, clothes over the banister onto the floor below. That is why the banister was cleaned off and why the floor cleaner was sitting out in the living room and entry area. There was probably blood on the floor. Also she cleaned up in the downstairs bath because there was blood in there LE found. The OS tells us she claims she went in there to clean up after she had sex with TA. My guess is she had blood all over her after putting the wash in the washer and may have showered there. That all takes time so I don't see her out of there by 6pm. It is certainly something to think about. It just makes it seem as if there was a plan and killing him at 5:30 was part of her plan.

It would also give her time to do the sheets and put them in the dryer and reload the washer. I think the picture of him on the bed with the big bottle of KY was show he routinely was having anal sex. No bottle of KY was recovered at the scene to my knowledge. She certainly was bloody after getting TA back into the shower and then washing him off. Again that takes time. It also could explain why she did not try to clean up all the blood, only what was outside the bedroom. It just seems to me there was a reason she waited until 5:30 unless she suspected the roommate knew she was there. jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is the first I have heard any reference to cigarette smoke. Would someone please provide a little background as to what this is about? TIA

Could it have been a smoke smell if she burned the evidence in the desert? I know when my hubby are burning off some of our land every year our clothes smell like smoke. So if her clothes smelled like smoke the car would too since she was in it for awhile.

IMO

 

[TorisMom003]

I don't think that her plans included the roommate at all. She had planned on how to best get Travis in a vernable position and she did. There is no way, IMO that she could expect to do the same thing with the roommate.

Agreed. I think Jodi planned on Travis already being asleep when she got there, shoot him and/or stab him while he slept, leave immediately to go to Utah to see Ryan.

Jodi was supposed to be at Ryan's around 12 - 1 pm on 6/4/08. The trip from Mesa, AZ to West Jordan, Utah is around 11 hours and 19 minutes. If she arrived at Travis's house at 3 am, spent say 20 minutes killing him, then made the trip to see Ryan she would have arrived around 2 pm or so. The extra time could be easily explained as getting lost or whatever. However, Jodi did not arrive at Ryan's until 10 -11 am on 6/5/08.

MOO

 

[darcedarce]

IMO it's a sad fact that SOME mommies ARE always going to try...

My boyfriend is a university dean and it just FLOORS me how many helicopter parents actually follow their offspring right into college to hover above them and to attempt to fight their children's fights FOR them, even in the dean's office! Their children are legally adults and yet Dean Fowler has to inform these zealous parents that he cannot discuss details about their children's situation due to privacy regulations and they get pissed at him for that. He has to point out to parents that they need to discuss their concerns with their children if they want more facts, and poor parents are so frustrated, but their children have been lying to them about WHY they've been suspended or about WHY they are flunking a class or whatever, and afraid to tell parents the truth and parents are just blindsided. :twocents::twocents:

The parents probably feel they should have a say because of the amount of money they're paying for their adult children to go to school. :floorlaugh:

 

[Quester]

I think she shot him first (naively thinking he would die immediately) and was appalled that he didn't die. She panicked and stabbed repeatedly until finally she slit his throat!

^ I tend to agree with this theory. First shot, second shot jammed, repeated stabbings, throat slit. However, I think she brutally slit his throat because he was probably yelling/screaming/begging for help and she couldn't risk him being heard.

Which leads me back to a question I asked yesterday but didn't see a response - could someone please help me out with this?? TIA

Was it the case that no roommates, no neighbors, no passersby reported having heard screams, calls for help, or a gunshot?
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