trial day 31: the defense continues it's case in chief #87

[megmono]

Appropriate

 

[Thurston]

................................................................................................................................................
I think there are a couple of things going on here. First, she HAS NO "personality " of her own. She is a socio/psychopath, void of feelings, emotions and real reactions. Her frame of reference is only from those with whom she interacts in prison (and she has been there for 5 years).
Her female defense attorney, with whom she spends a lot of time is very easy for her to mimic. She is bright enough to realize that this "professional" person is someone she can try and measure up to. As well, she and Samuels have spent many hours together, and she can gather a lot of psycho babble in this way, and KNOW what defense mechanisms/ behaviors (excuses) he will try to define in her, ahead of time. She has had a good long time to practice and learn all of this gobldygook in her brain. MOO

Originally Posted by CourtsInSession
Here it is! Look at Nurmi drinking from his cup at approx. 2:19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux4cp-YIQ-o

Aria's and Nurmi both hold their cups when drinking the same way.

I wonder if Arias in the 48 Hours Interview taped shortly after she was arrested was mimicking Travis Alexander? We did see the video of Travis Alexander describing a previous near death experience - and, during the 48 Hours Interview Arias "borrows" Travis Alexander's previous near death experience, and, makes it her own.

Again, I have never watched a defendant "take" on the characteristics and behaviors of his/her defense team.

This is changing the subject - but I wish that Samuels could be asked how Travis Alexander's PTSD from his near death experience (having a gun held up to his forehead) factors into all of this. If we are expected to mitigate / understand Arias' criminal behavior due to PTSD - then, going with Arias' description of June 4, 2008 - Arias should have understood that if Travis Alexander stated verbally aggressive statements to her - Travis more than likely was unaware that he was being verbally aggressive, and, Arias should have been able to recognize this.

Arias is a very frightening individual. I feel badly with the people that have to spend time with her / in her presence (such as the jury).

 

[ElleElle]

You'd think they would of least had someone other then another creepy bald guy as a defense witness.

No offence to bald men but the resemblance between Gus and Dr Samuels is uncanny.

Honestly, I can't imagine why on earth they put this guy on the stand. If anything it seriously hurts their client. .

 

[tinkabella]

Holly Carp. Did you see Mike reenact the crime on HLN? Does anyone have that video? It's pretty accurate and at a frantic pace. First time I have seen this done.

:what: No is there a link where we can watch?

 

[thefragile7393]

Haha, I suppose it's a bit of my British blood showing here.

It just means to toss something, throw something, etc. For example, just bung it in the oven for 10 minutes!

:seeya:

I have never heard this....I like it!

 

[KarmicLaw]

To be fair, I think we've all had 'those nights' we'd rather forget...:blushing:

Hahahahahaha, that literally made me laugh out loud in a public place. So, so true.

 

[LotusPawprint]

Oh, I just found this in my favorites, before I head off to bed.

An article titled "DSM-5 Is A Guide, Not A Bible—Simply Ignore Its 10 Worst Changes"

Very interesting... talks about how DSM-5 is expanding more behaviors into psychiatric diagnoses. Everything now has a dx. The author thinks this is not good. I agree. A few highlights but I think it's a must read.

This is no way to prepare or to approve a diagnostic system. Psychiatric diagnosis has become too important in selecting treatments, determining eligibility for benefits and services, allocating resources, guiding legal judgments, creating stigma, and influencing personal expectations to be left in the hands of an APA that has proven itself incapable of producing a safe, sound, and widely accepted manual.


So, here is my list of DSM-5’s 10 most potentially harmful changes. I would suggest that clinicians not follow these at all (or, at the very least, use them with extreme caution and attention to their risks); that potential patients be deeply skeptical, especially if the proposed diagnosis is being used as a rationale for prescribing medication for you or for your child; and that payers question whether some of these are suitable for reimbursement. My goal is to minimize the harm that may otherwise be done by unnecessary obedience to unwise and arbitrary DSM-5 decisions.



***
(10) DSM-5 has opened the gate even further to the already existing problem of misdiagnosis of PTSD in forensic settings.



Except for autism, all the DSM-5 changes loosen diagnosis and threaten to turn our current diagnostic inflation into diagnostic hyperinflation. Painful experience with previous DSM’s teaches that if anything in the diagnostic system can be misused and turned into a fad, it will be. Many millions of people with normal grief, gluttony, distractibility, worries, reactions to stress, the temper tantrums of childhood, the forgetting of old age, and ‘behavioral addictions’ will soon be mislabeled as psychiatrically sick and given inappropriate treatment.

People with real psychiatric problems that can be reliably diagnosed and effectively treated are already badly shortchanged. DSM-5 will make this worse by diverting attention and scarce resources away from the really ill and toward people with the everyday problems of life who will be harmed, not helped, when they are mislabeled as mentally ill.

Our patients deserve better, society deserves better, and the mental health professions deserve better. Caring for the mentally ill is a noble and effective profession. But we have to know our limits and stay within them.

DSM-5 violates the most sacred (and most frequently ignored) tenet in medicine—First Do No Harm! That’s why this is such a sad moment.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blog/frances/content/article/10168/2117994

 

[Gypsy Road]

sorry for the slight o/t, but just had to ask if everyone's page has the french sexy ad at the top right of their page?.... I've never seen it before and its in all French, smudob.com is the ad and has a woman in just lace panties embracing a nude dude(atleast all visible areas are nude, save her lacy panties).. the pic looks like one from steamy romance novel cover..lol..does everyone have this ad??

I don't think I've had that ad, but I have had the "Do you want to meet a sexy Asian girl?" ad. She's wearing a "sexy" school girl outfit. The answer is no...I don't want a sexy Asian girl or any other girl for that matter! I'm the only one who uses this computer and I can not figure out why I am getting that ad - except I did look at the x-rated photos of Jodi because I just couldn't help myself after everyone said how bad they were.:blushing:

 

[RadarLuv]

:what: No is there a link where we can watch?

I don't know. I was watching Showbiz tonight and Mike (don't know last name). He had a camera and started taking photos and did the bodyslam, roll, run, gun, run. and that was so so quick, then, had to run for the knife. I tried to google it, but you guys are way better at finding that stuff. I could try to video off my TV. I am hoping they play the whole thing. Pretty compelling. They did it in the offices at HLN studios.


I have not seen it reenacted in person, only by virtual reenactment. NO WAY it could have happened the way she said. And Mike was running FAST!

 

[DairyGirl]

Ok, my PTSD is from something that happened 40 years ago, when I was 15. I don't even want to talk about it, very few people in my life even know about it. However, this is not in defense of JA but I did block out a lot of things that to this day I don't remember. Even at the time I knew they were to horrible to remember and I vowed never to allow myself to remember, if that makes sense. Only one or two things have come back to me in all this time and those were things that I needed to remember to make sense of what happened.
I have spent years in counseling and nothing could make me remember those things. Like I said, to this day I wouldn't want to. I only know the condition I was found in and that is enough for me to know that I don't want to know what happened to get me that way. The things that happened afterwards with the hospital and police only added to my sense of shame and blaming myself. In the 70s they weren't compassionate towards female victims as they are now. There was only one person who showed me kindness and that was weeks later when a female police person called me to see how I was after seeing my pictures from that night.
I was also blamed by my mother because I had called her for a ride home that night and she refused because she was going out gambling so to spite her I hitchhiked home. Only I never got there. I wound up deep in the woods of the Angeles National forest in the middle of the night, saved by a car full of church goers who happened to decide to go looking for a place to have a future camp out at 1 am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning, that caused the perpetrator to flee before he could finish killing me.
Anyway, I am only telling this because I do understand how traumatic events can cause you to black out certain things. One thing I remember clearly was feeling my body float above me and looking down at the person being attacked and wondering why someone didn't help that person. I had never heard of an out of body experience before so it wasn't as if I was suggestible to imagining that. I just know what happened. Years later a counselor told me that it wasn't an out of body experience but that I had disassociated myself. All I know is I felt myself rise above the situation and was watching it from above as if it was happening to someone else. Then car lights and the attacker fled on his motorcycle and a car full of Christians saw me and took me to the hospital.
This is probably more then I have talked about this outside of a professionals office or a rare confidant since it happened.
ETA, I was the victim obviously and not the perpetrator and I can guarantee you that there would be nothing in the world that could have caused me to ever intentionally have contact with the attacker again. In fact it was my biggest fear since one of the things I blocked out was his face so I was terrified I could have passed him on the street and not known it. And drive 1200 for a roll in the hay with my attacker? Seriously?
There is no way JA is a victim of PTSD.

 

[KarmicLaw]

I've managed to go without a working desktop for over two years, but I swear I think I am going to have to get one in the next week because I hate how slow my iPad is when I try to read and post. So many things I want to say, but most of all, I'm just grateful to know that I am not alone in this crazy obsession I have against violence and for truth and justice.

 

[Sleuth13]

OK!!!! I'm officially creeped out! Have any of you looked at the 180 evidence photos on HLN?? Around 162ish there's pix of the back of the house and what appears to be the window screen laying nearby!! I believe after BRUTALLY MURDERING TA she left out the front but now I'm more convinced than ever she snuck back into that house when TA was in the shower and certain she was gone!

 

[norcat]

In the Great Reveal of JA as a victim of her own violence, the "expert" said she exhibited the following list of symptoms, blah, blah, blah

AND THEN at the very end he swallowed one important disclaimer. None of them apply for a diagnosis of PTSD if there is the presence of an Axis I or Axis II diagnosis.

With that caveat, a competent psychologist would start looking at the criteria for the Axis II diagnosis, even if just to rule them out. He didn't mention that he even considered it. His twelve visits don't give him the background that we have here about Jodi Arias, after listening to this trial.

After all, because plenty of people lose their lover and don't become murderers. I think they didn't rule out Axis II disorders because JA's pride wouldn't allow it. It's the only point I've ever found that I agree with JA.

Axis II includes the disorders more usually considered permanent, like Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder.

She didn't think much of this guy since she didn't even consider him "professional help" enough to mention when JM asked her if she had ever spoken to a professional about her mental condition.

And how much time did he spend during those 12 days?

 

[ctmom]

Thanks. That makes sense -- except why would he have mentioned that as a reason for moving? Or did he. I think the OP wasn't sure?

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/act...SI00106000.pdf
Stipulation# 3 of the ORDER. March 3, 2000
Respondent shall successfully complete continuing
education concerning ethics and boundary issues, which courses
shall be completed within six months of entry of the within
Consent Order. Respondent may take continuing education
in either New Jersey or Arizona. Prior taking the course/courses,
respondent shall obtain from Board approval the
course/courses. Respondent shall also be required to submit to the
Board written proof of successful completion of the required course
work.

 

[KathrynL]

Oh, I just found this in my favorites, before I head off to bed.

An article titled "DSM-5 Is A Guide, Not A Bible—Simply Ignore Its 10 Worst Changes"

Very interesting... talks about how DSM-5 is expanding more behaviors into psychiatric diagnoses. Everything now has a dx. The author thinks this is not good. I agree. A few highlights but I think it's a must read.




http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blog/frances/content/article/10168/2117994

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have intuitively and intellectually believed that the expanded DSM included a bunch of horse hockey. Certainly listening to the carp spewing forth from the witness stand today confirmed my opinion. moo

 

[RadarLuv]

OK!!!! I'm officially creeped out! Have any of you looked at the 180 evidence photos on HLN?? Around 162ish there's pix of the back of the house and what appears to be the window screen laying nearby!! I believe after BRUTALLY MURDERING TA she left out the front but now I'm more convinced than ever she snuck back into that house when TA was in the shower and certain she was gone!

That would totally make sense! Sneaky little &^&*# she was.

 

[LizardQueen74]

I have never heard this....I like it!

Here in the States...bung usually only precedes the word hole. Too much Beavis and Butthead probably.:floorlaugh:

 

[tinkabella]

I don't know. I was watching Showbiz tonight and Mike (don't know last name). He had a camera and started taking photos and did the bodyslam, roll, run, gun, run. and that was so so quick, then, had to run for the knife. I tried to google it, but you guys are way better at finding that stuff. I could try to video off my TV. I am hoping they play the whole thing. Pretty compelling. They did it in the offices at HLN studios.


I have not seen it reenacted in person, only by virtual reenactment. NO WAY it could have happened the way she said. And Mike was running FAST!

So basically he did Jodi's version of events PLUS the 29 stabs and gun shot and slicing of throat in 62 seconds or less? If so he needs to try out for the Olympics because only usain bolt can pull off something like that. I will look for it online. I can't wait to see this.

 

[LizardQueen74]

In the Great Reveal of JA as a victim of her own violence, the "expert" said she exhibited the following list of symptoms, blah, blah, blah

AND THEN at the very end he swallowed one important disclaimer. None of them apply for a diagnosis of PTSD if there is the presence of an Axis I or Axis II diagnosis.

With that caveat, a competent psychologist would start looking at the criteria for the Axis II diagnosis, even if just to rule them out. He didn't mention that he even considered it. His twelve visits don't give him the background that we have here about Jodi Arias, after listening to this trial.

After all, because plenty of people lose their lover and don't become murderers. I think they didn't rule out Axis II disorders because JA's pride wouldn't allow it. It's the only point I've ever found that I agree with JA.

Axis II includes the disorders more usually considered permanent, like Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder.

She didn't think much of this guy since she didn't even consider him "professional help" enough to mention when JM asked her if she had ever spoken to a professional about her mental condition.

Excellent post!!:rocker:

 

[RadarLuv]

I honestly believe that everyone has something that can trigger PTSD. We don't kill people because of it. I am in the commercial airline industry and was flying on 9/11. Could I have PTSD? Yes, I could. I still would not murder someone because of it, in cold blood. Not an excuse.