Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Mango33]

I agree that it only needs to happen once to make it a permanent worry. But the point is that he doesn't appear to have reported anything. I've been burgled once and there have been subsequent (failed) attempts (one while I was in the house). I reported every incident though - did you not report yours?

And having been burgled, there is no way I would be sleeping with any exterior doors open!

He didn't report anything at Silverwoods it seems (though Roux asked about the spelling of the potential complainants names, making me wonder if that was relevant to anything coming later.)

But there are other options.

If OP experienced a crime as a kid or teenager, it would have been his parents or relatives reporting, friends could have reported if they were in a group at the time, it might have been overseas in Mozambique or Europe. My point is his alleged terror and paranoia may well have started long before Silverwoods.

If so, no amount of statistics saying Silverwoods is safe is likely to completely diminish his fear. (Remember the police arrived on the scene fresh from a burglary at a similar gated communty iirc)

 

[Insp.Dots]

I've read posts concerning Reeva and things about her decision to dress certain ways or to model for FHM and how she should want to be known for things more than that (words to that effect). I really don't understand this line of thinking/posting. Reeva was much more than just a model for FHM and should not be defined by what she decided to wear. From an article that I found about Reeva:

"A law school graduate, with a vibrant personality and a slew of modeling gigs under her belt.

Her growing exposure brought more opportunities. She served as a presenter for FashionTV in South Africa, was an FHM cover girl and was the face of cosmetics company Avon."

Also this:

"Before she died, Steenkamp sent out a message urging her thousands of social media followers to empower women.

"Speak out against the rape of individuals" in South Africa, she said in a post on the photo-sharing site Instagram. "RIP Anene Booysen."

Booysen, 17, was raped and mutilated in South Africa in February of last year, putting a spotlight on violence against women in the nation.

Steenkamp urged her followers on Twitter to wear black the day after Valentine's to protest violence against women."

Personally I would never judge someone based on what they wear or what they choose as their profession. It sounds as if Reeva was a truly wonderful, kind, caring human being and it is the world's loss that she was killed.

link to article:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/14/world/africa/south-africa-model-profile/index.html

MOO

From what I wrote and read the clothes were ONLY discussed in regard to OP possible influence. I am certainly NOT implying anything negative about Reeva's image. I believe her friend that said she was beautiful inside and out!

 

[steveml]

O.K. Now I will be watching the OP testimony with baited breath and Nel had better ask him this question: "What are all these rabbit things you have around your house?":floorlaugh:

On a more serious note, would shooting a "double tap" mean the two bullet holes in the door would be near each other, or can the gun be moved while doing the double tap?

I think my question was answered above, but is there a way to see from the holes in the door the likelihood of a double tap?

It's very difficult to say I'm afraid. The further away from the door you are, the more difficult it should be.

I really wouldn't like to say, a shot under pressure could likely be much further from the target than a controlled shot, where you would have more time to steady your body and check your aim. I think there are too many anomalies to determine this from the bullet-holes.

All we really determined from ballistics is that the shots were probably taken from no closer than 2 feet, to anywhere as far as the back wall.

 

[james83]

Thanks, I must have missed him saying that!
I think there expert is going to have to be pretty good to try and dent his evidence.

Yeah Mangena really was fantastic, very impressive guy.

 

[james83]

If pistorius never reported these supposed crimes against him then those claims are meaningless and I can't see the judge buying into it.

 

[steveml]

Agreed, it could be he couldn't hear after the first shot, but then wouldn't that make him even more reckless to pump a full 4 bullets into such a tiny space without any warning and without even stopping to listen whether the intruder/burglar had been hit, was calling stop, groaning etc. Surely if that were the case then OP's claim he just wanted to scare the intruder/s/burglar/s (he needs to claim this if he aims to get the charge reduced to culpable homicide) doesn't make sense because 1, at most 2 bullets through the door would have been more than sufficient to scare anyone trapped in such a tiny space and even one shot in the air and/or a verbal warning would have achieved the same. And I recall OP in his statement says he thought there could be two intruders/burglars, so how the heck could anyone not foresee at least one of the these getting mortally hit from one of the 4 soft nosed bullets considering that two in such a tiny toilet would have had even less space to take cover and therefore it would be even more foreseeable that at least one would be killed. jmo.

I agree. I doubt anyone could suggest that he didn't realise he was likely to kill whoever was behind the door.

That would be beyond belief.

 

[Cherwell]

He didn't report anything at Silverwoods it seems (though Roux asked about the spelling of the potential complainants names, making me wonder if that was relevant to anything coming later.)

But there are other options.

If OP experienced a crime as a kid or teenager, it would have been his parents or relatives reporting, friends could have reported if they were in a group at the time, it might have been overseas in Mozambique or Europe. My point is his alleged terror and paranoia may well have started long before Silverwoods.

If so, no amount of statistics saying Silverwoods is safe is likely to completely diminish his fear. (Remember the police arrived on the scene fresh from a burglary at a similar gated communty iirc)

But apparently his terror and paranoia is not so great that he isn't comfortable sleeping with his balcony doors open.

 

[Koozit]

Mangena said 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th could have been double tap.


Hubby an ex-cop, says a double tap is 2 shots to the torso, or to the head.

 

[Mango33]

If pistorius never reported these supposed crimes against him then those claims are meaningless and I can't see the judge buying into it.

Yes, I think we will definitely need Roux to show evidence of crimes he was witness/victim of, reported by him or other family.

Since the foundation of the DT's whole defense is a primal terror, I would think establishing the roots of this extreme fear will be key.

 

[Interested Bystander]

From what I wrote and read the clothes were ONLY discussed in regard to OP possible influence. I am certainly NOT implying anything negative about Reeva's image. I believe her friend that said she was beautiful inside and out!

I think everyone would agree with that. Her murder stripped SA of a very valuable member of society.

 

[Carol70]

I'll just elaborate on the double-tap technique a little bit more for clarity.

A double tap is a shooting technique where two well-aimed shots are fired at the same target with very little time in between shots.

If you very very quickly pulled the trigger twice on a gun, the likelihood is that the second shot would rise quite high above the target. This is because the gun naturally rises after a bullet is released.

To enable accuracy you have to aim back at the target after the first shot and squeeze the trigger again. It's an individual skill which varies from person to person, therefore a time guesstimate is quite difficult.

Thanks so much for that...haha, been wondering how the hell you get 2 bullets to shoot out a gun with only pulling the trigger once :blushing:

 

[G.bng]

And would a "reasonable man" fearful of intruders keep a 9 mm Parabellus under his bed but sleep with his balcony doors open?

And not immediately repair a broken window pane downstairs ?

 

[james83]

Yes I agree .
It is their testimony that is the most interesting to me because of that very fact ,correct me of I am wrong, but they were quite convinced that they had heard two sets of shots not bangs ?

yes they both said that both sets of shots sounded the same.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I spent a fair time looking at Twitter accounts of RS, OP and various others who are friends and ex's of the couple. Some tweets have been removed probably for obvious reasons but there is still a lot that you can link up to the What's App chats read in court. Also found that RS had received abusive tweets around that time from a 3rd party who she reported and blocked. The line that involved her saying she was not a stripper etc was indeed said after someone had said things about her to OP and she was upset that he should have come to her instead of just listening/believing what someone else said.
Sorry I am on a Kindle and cannot link but if you look at accounts you can find this.

However, this ends.....It IMO shows that OP was very insecure and RS though she also had been hurt before was trying to show genuine love and affection and that she loved him. It is truly tragic if all that did have an affect on the outcome. TRAGIC.

ETA. I wasn't going to say this but My partner had massive issues with insecurity when we first met and came across as controlling and possessive to my friends and others. Nearly, ten years on and he has grown to trust and believe...also after me telling him if it didn't stop I'd leave. He still makes the odd comment which I usually tut at and we move on. I have NEVER once felt I was in danger but thinking about it I do remember saying to him the way he 'flipped' moods and complain about whatever scared me....but reflecting what I meant was it scared me the way his mood changed from lovely and kind to sulking or complaining.
I think only Reeva knew what she meant when she wrote those things. Friends said he treated her like gold. Maybe he did....I struggle to imagine she was about to leave him or why the Valentine's gift, which is an album of pics of them together. IF he intended to kill he deserves everything he gets. IF it was a blue rage and jealousy caused him to lose it, he will punish himself much more than any sentence the court could give.

No matter what BEFORE this happened he really did change the lives of many many people and showed that you can achieve anything if you try. How sad that those he was helping are now left with a chasm and the knowledge that things can also go very badly wrong in a split second. As always, just my thoughts.

 

[G.bng]

Plus if he genuinely feared for his life, why didn't he put his prosthetic legs on in the 1st place???? It takes him seconds . . . .

And that's seconds... they go on like slip-ons !

 

[steveml]

I agree that it only needs to happen once to make it a permanent worry. But the point is that he doesn't appear to have reported anything. I've been burgled once and there have been subsequent (failed) attempts (one while I was in the house). I reported every incident though - did you not report yours?

And having been burgled, there is no way I would be sleeping with any exterior doors open!

When I was on TV during my detective series days, my cream raincoat was stolen. However I didn't report it as it would immediately end up in the newspaper. Sorry, couldn't resist. :facepalm:

On a serious note, I'll throw this thought out, and I'm not going to qualify it as I haven't a clue regarding celebrity status, so don't gang up on me if you think I'm just looking to find an excuse for OP...

Could it be that we don't quite understand the way celebrities live their lives? When things happen, stuff gets stolen etc. somebody else may well decide who deals with it, and if it's reported at all. Everything is PR and media related, with worries about leaks to the press. Both Reeva and OP would be subject to this. If it had been determined OP had fired the gun in the restaurant at the time, you can be sure one of his PR people would have been in touch immediately with the restaurant to try and avoid unwanted publicity.

 

[Mango33]

But apparently his terror and paranoia is not so great that he isn't comfortable sleeping with his balcony doors open.

I agree it seems like a contradiction and he may not be able to convince the judge that fear was a factor here.


However, I have to confess the open second floor doors on a hot night when the AC is broken does not seem that odd to me, even in high crime countries. It is what people do when it is hot, even people who freak out easily.

 

[james83]

Wouldn't be surprised if Oscar doesn't testify due to having a sore throat from spending too much time practising his screaming.

 

[Carol70]

I agree that it only needs to happen once to make it a permanent worry. But the point is that he doesn't appear to have reported anything. I've been burgled once and there have been subsequent (failed) attempts (one while I was in the house). I reported every incident though - did you not report yours?

And having been burgled, there is no way I would be sleeping with any exterior doors open!

Yes of course we did, only for insurance purposes. We also reported it to neighbourhood watch because they keep a record of statistics for our area on all crimes committed. We now know that there is a huge crime spike in our area on bin days, so on these days every week, we are EXTRA vigilant of people loitering around and any suspicious characters. However, when a vehicle was broken into in our yard and on another, small items out our yard were stolen, we didn't report to police as our insurance excess was more than the value of the items...so it was deemed a waste of time.

I will add that just because there is no record of OP being a victim, doesn't mean he wasn't, he may have been on someone else's property, at a family members house and so on...the police didn't take the name of every member in our house when we reported the crime, just the husbands for insurance purposes and mine because my identity book and bank cards were stolen (and for that I still had to go into the police station and give an affidavit to submit to the banks).

 

[Interested Bystander]

We keep mentioning that OP left his bedroom sliding doors open though I cannot find anything in print that confirms this. Maybe it was because in his affidavit he only commented on closing everything up.

If they were not open, can you imagine the noise of opening curtains, blinds and doors and closing them again? I cannot think anyone being able to sleep through that. Of course, in his trial statement he has added that he spoke to Reeva, an addition that would allow him to say that the doors were closed and he opened them, ie he will claim that Reeva was awake and heard him do this. However, by adding to his affidavit I am sure the judge will see what he was attempting to do.