Trial Discussion Thread #16

[Gbtaketwo]

I tend to believe in an argument that ended, ultimately, with Oscar striking Reeva. I think that's where the blood in the bedroom came from. I think that was her 'aha' moment. She ran to the toilet after that, having every intention of leaving the relationship...

To my mind, her speech on abusive relationships got her thinking - she started putting pieces together, seeing patterns she'd lived once before already - and confronted him over his behaviour, sparking the argument.

JMO

Yes
We were talking about this briefly yesterday
Hypothetically it would also be an Aha moment for OP as well because he was only too well aware that Even a minor assault on a women like Reeva
( intelligent and mature )would be enough for him to loose sponsors overnight .
We don't know for sure what happened yet but this is certainly a possibility to consider JMO

 

[shane13]

Thanks, wonderful post, as always!

I was hoping, and to a certain extent I still am, that Reeva punched the *#%¥ out of OPs nose and it is his blood on the wall and the duvet! :smile:

Unlikely.
A year ago here, based on statements from former BFs, it was said how non-confrontational, non-argumentative Reeva was.

Indeed we speculated last year, given this 1-hour arguing, that maybe OP had already prevented her from leaving, and that was possibly one of the things she was arguing about or for. Because again her nature, all who knew her said would have been to leave instead of arguing for so long.

 

[james83]

I've always found this to be the oddest part of OP's affidavit(bolded)

I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps. I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed.

Why at this point would he still be to scared to switch on a light?.

 

[Gryffindor]

Yes
We were talking about this briefly yesterday
Hypothetically it would also be an Aha moment for OP as well because he was only too well aware that Even a minor assault on a women like Reeva
( intelligent and mature )would be enough for him to loose sponsors overnight .
We don't know for sure what happened yet but this is certainly a possibility to consider JMO

Chuck in his narcissistic, egotistical tweet (RT) to that mix too:

"Find someone who knows how lucky they are to have you."

Just WOW!!

 

[Gryffindor]

I've always found this to be the oddest part of OP's affidavit(bolded)

I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps. I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed.

Why at this point would he still be to scared to switch on a light?.

Hang on!! So he could see her missing IN THE DARK then but NOT when he was making his way OUT of the bedroom, with the same level of darkness???

IMO, he wouldn't put on a big light at past 3am incase security or neighbours were alerted.

Oscar will probably claim it was incase their were more burglars!

 

[james83]

I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.

Notice how he shout's for Reeva to call the police twice, but strangely he only notices she isn't responding the 2nd time he shout's it, hmmmmm.

 

[steveml]

I would have switched a light on before moving anywhere - then again I wouldn't dream of picking up a gun and firing 4 shots through a door.

OP's gonna have to answer that one.

The flip side of that coin, and what defense will probably suggest is...

Would a couple to row for an hour in total darkness?

If injuries were inflicted to Reeva in that room would that have been done in total darkness?

Reeva isn't argumentative as we hear quite regularly so can we imagine she rowed for an hour?

Why OP didn't switch the light on is an issue that deals primarily with his state of mind at the time, but it doesn't help me much in narrowing down what happened that morning.

Now, if a close neighbor could confirm the bedroom light was on at any time between 2.00am and 3.00am, that would blow OP's statement right out of the water.

 

[Viper]

Unlikely.
A year ago here, based on statements from former BFs, it was said how non-confrontational, non-argumentative Reeva was.

Indeed we speculated last year, given this 1-hour arguing, that maybe OP had already prevented her from leaving, and that was possibly one of the things she was arguing about or for. Because again her nature, all who knew her said would have been to leave instead of arguing for so long.

Well here we are a year later and the argument continues! . I'm still waiting for the trial to resume to see, but OP had a mark on his left nostril (in the photos of him leaving some police station that day, his head bowed and face/head covered in a hoody, hands obscured deeply in the hoodie pockets), a scratch in front of his left ear in his thin sideburns (in the photo of him in the back of the range rover leaving on bail) - all to my eyes and many others. We have not see the photos of him taken at the hospital where he was inspected for injury and drug tested.

And today his bedroom doors are bashed in and barged through, his prosthetics are heavily damaged, like on the barging of the bedroom door, and there is a air gun pellet fired through those doors from the bedroom to the other side.

Reeva may have wanted to leave surely, but when faced with a madman and in need to defend herself I have to believe that she would have and in fact she did.

I was hoping and still am hoping that Reeva fired the pellet gun at OP and that Reeva bloodied OPs nose near the bed side.

So the argument goes on. We shall see!

 

[nastasya]

I've always found this to be the oddest part of OP's affidavit(bolded)

I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps. I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed.

Why at this point would he still be to scared to switch on a light?.

Yeah, too scared to turn on lights after running around screaming get out of my house and to call the police.

Personally, I found the part about seeing Reeva not in bed, running into the bathroom, finding the door locked, and then immediately leaving the bathroom, running all the way across the bedroom, opening the sliding door, then exiting onto the deck before screaming for help from his neighbors at 3:00 am the oddest part.

At that point all he knew was he shot four holes into his bathroom door and Reeva wasn't in bed with him.

But then it might be odder that after he found he had shot Reeva in the head and security called, he decided NOT to ask for help....

Actually, it's only odd if you don't think he's a killer. It's a perfectly understandable, albeit below average, alibi for a psycho killer.

 

[nastasya]

Notice how he shout's for Reeva to call the police twice, but strangely he only notices she isn't responding the 2nd time he shout's it, hmmmmm.

He shouts to Reeva to call police twice for an imaginary intruder. which is two more times than he called for police after killing a real woman.

 

[Cherwell]

I would have switched a light on before moving anywhere - then again I wouldn't dream of picking up a gun and firing 4 shots through a door.

OP's gonna have to answer that one.

The flip side of that coin, and what defense will probably suggest is...

Would a couple to row for an hour in total darkness?

If injuries were inflicted to Reeva in that room would that have been done in total darkness?

Reeva isn't argumentative as we hear quite regularly so can we imagine she rowed for an hour?

Why OP didn't switch the light on is an issue that deals primarily with his state of mind at the time, but it doesn't help me much in narrowing down what happened that morning.

Now, if a close neighbor could confirm the bedroom light was on at any time between 2.00am and 3.00am, that would blow OP's statement right out of the water.

There could just have been a bedside lamp on, or a dimmed light. Doesn't need to have been main lights blazing out 100w.

 

[james83]

I would have switched a light on before moving anywhere - then again I wouldn't dream of picking up a gun and firing 4 shots through a door.

OP's gonna have to answer that one.

The flip side of that coin, and what defense will probably suggest is...

Would a couple to row for an hour in total darkness?

If injuries were inflicted to Reeva in that room would that have been done in total darkness?

Reeva isn't argumentative as we hear quite regularly so can we imagine she rowed for an hour?

Why OP didn't switch the light on is an issue that deals primarily with his state of mind at the time, but it doesn't help me much in narrowing down what happened that morning.

Now, if a close neighbor could confirm the bedroom light was on at any time between 2.00am and 3.00am, that would blow OP's statement right out of the water.

Could well have been a light on for all we know, or a lamp,.

 

[Cherwell]

"I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house"

That has always struck me as very peculiar phrasing.

 

[Gryffindor]

I would have switched a light on before moving anywhere - then again I wouldn't dream of picking up a gun and firing 4 shots through a door.

OP's gonna have to answer that one.

The flip side of that coin, and what defense will probably suggest is...

Would a couple to row for an hour in total darkness?

If injuries were inflicted to Reeva in that room would that have been done in total darkness?

Reeva isn't argumentative as we hear quite regularly so can we imagine she rowed for an hour?

Why OP didn't switch the light on is an issue that deals primarily with his state of mind at the time, but it doesn't help me much in narrowing down what happened that morning.

Now, if a close neighbor could confirm the bedroom light was on at any time between 2.00am and 3.00am, that would blow OP's statement right out of the water.

Didn't the Stipps say the lights were on?

 

[Bazinga]

Here's a diagram showing the place and direction I think OP fired from.

* I didn't have any small-man clip-art available so used a gingerbread man.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/21/police_add_more_confusion_to_oscar_pistorius_case/

Every time I see an image of the bedroom/bathroom/toilet layout I cannot fathom OP feeling fear and still going to the danger rather than quietly waking Reeva and escaping out the bedroom door, locking it if that is an option. Then other actions - press panic button, call security, police... Stumps, disability, crime in SA, OP being paranoid - still his actions do not match his explanation about how he was feeling and what he and Reeva were doing before, during and after the shooting.

 

[nastasya]

"I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house"

That has always struck me as very peculiar phrasing.

It's a great catch all phrase to cover witnesses who might have heard the argument that progressed after the killer lost his temper:

"Stop or I'll call the police!"

"Get the _____ out of my house Reeva"

"I'm going to call the police."

 

[soozieqtips]

"I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house"

That has always struck me as very peculiar phrasing.

A lot of his affidavit has peculiar phrasing when you really look at it. Also, where did he think the 'intruder' was going to go once he'd been issued with his marching orders? Out through the window? He didn't give the 'intruder' time to 'get out of my house' before he shot the 'intruder' dead.

Here's an interesting animation of how it happened (using his affidavit as the guide).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JECRsvp9P0I

 

[BritsKate]

I think the duvet would've had far more blood on it though, if that were the case .. although I can't quite remember if it's the top/outside of the duvet that I'm thinking of but I'm pretty sure I've seen the underside/folded bit too (I may be wrong on that, can't remember now).

I remember watching the live evidence being presented by the blood spatter expert and he didn't appear think there was anything significant about the blood on the wall by the head of the bed .. he just agreed that it would've been due to arterial spurt and just left it at that, so I don't think there is anything more significant about that one.

A) It was never classed as arterial spray. B) The blood in the bedroom was never testified to, in any form, by the State's blood spatter expert - van der Nest. C) The blood was simply identified in photographs taken by Van Staden. D) No further explanation has been provided by anyone. Yet.

There is no reason for blood to be in the areas of the bedroom it is if Oscar's account is reliable. There would likely be much more blood in the bedroom if Reeva were moved into the bedroom, after being shot, before being taken downstairs. So...my theory is the blood on the wall, above the headboard, and on the duvet got there before Reeva was shot. I believe the blood on the watch case and watch faces was transferred post-murder by Oscar.

JMO

 

[nastasya]

Every time I see an image of the bedroom/bathroom/toilet layout I cannot fathom OP feeling fear and still going to the danger rather than quietly waking Reeva and escaping out the bedroom door, locking it if that is an option. Then other actions - press panic button, call security, police... Stumps, disability, crime in SA, OP being paranoid - still his actions do not match his explanation about how he was feeling and what he and Reeva were doing before, during and after the shooting.

Another point that makes zero sense.

Killer claims he puts on legs and then kicks door, failing to break it down, then goes and gets the cricket bat.

Really? He's an Olympic athlete. A rugby player.

Does anybody really believe he couldn't have broken down the door without the bat? Or that he would try kicking it once, then give up and run back to get the bat?

And it looks like he had no problem kicking in the bedroom door.

 

[K.T]

I've always found this to be the oddest part of OP's affidavit(bolded)

I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps. I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding. When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed.

Why at this point would he still be to scared to switch on a light?.

Read this linguistic statement analysis if you want to hear a take on what Pistorius affidavit might mean, it's worth it if anyone's interested in the construction of language and psychology:

About the light, its particularly funny. Obviously it notes that having the lights off doesn't make sense if Pistorius is terrified because most common, safe and usual response is to turn on a light and to get rid of the dark.

But in this analysis they add in a psychological tenet about mentioning the turning on and off of lights as possibly related to sexual dysfunction. Made me *lol*

Bail affidavit lines 17, 31, 36

http://www.linguisticstatementanalysis.com/SOTM/Pistorius.pdf