Trial Discussion Thread #16

[Viper]

Yes, absolutely .. that's what I mean .. the ballistics guy is the one guy who really did know what he was talking about! :thumb:

I really like him too. When he said that he competes in competition shooting and that he could do double tap shooting but OP absolutely could not - I almost fell out of my chair laughing so hard! He really was a great expert witness. :smile:

 

[jay-jay]

“I would have gone with a temporary insanity defence,” said a top-flight criminal defence ¬ lawyer who was less optimistic about Pistorius’ chances.”

Yes, funnily enough I was wondering that earlier today .. that it would've been far easier to have claimed either something like that .. or even something like having done it all while sleepwalking or something!

 

[soozieqtips]

Hmmm.
Thanks much for this.

This is not the way I thought it worked, and the way I think it used to work.
Maybe Mods can say something becuase this is either new or I do/didn't understand.

Thanks again, Sooz.

You're welcome. I don't remember changing my settings when I joined a few years ago, because there would have been no reason to. And if I did, I have no recollection of it, kind of like how OP has no recollection of anyone but himself making any sounds that night!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes, funnily enough I was wondering that earlier today .. that it would've been far easier to have claimed either something like that .. or even something like having done it all while sleepwalking or something!

I have thought that myself but he doesn't want to do any time at all.
He may have thought that because his brother had a favourable result he did not need to consider a bad result for himself .

 

[Viper]

I do think sometimes that the affectionately called bat man could just have been incredibly nervous and not good at presenting his own evidence in front of the whole world? At first I thought he seemed just out of his depth .

.I have seen very talented performances by children in a dress rehearsal that have literally gone to pieces and talked gibberish in front of the audience .

I respect everyone of the specialists and witnesses that have spoken for the prosecution under such scrutiny
I mean look how Roux managed to get a photographer to confirm a bat had moved when it hadn't ? Fortunately the judge will realise that and look at all the facts for herself with the help of her assessors.

To be honest I liked batman a lot, all the way up to where he said gunshots before bat , right then I knew something was wrong so I paid attention. And minutes later I understood what he was saying, he was conflating that the bat strike marks and the bat being used to pry the panel loose happened as one event. He did that wrongly IMO, but innocently too. He works in a laboratory and has decades of experience in this stuff so it is a huge part of his life, but in this case him being isolated from even reading OPs affidavit led him to make that wrong statement. He did clarify that it was not scientifically possible to say with certainty which came first, bat or gunshot, so again I see him as a dedicate professional and he did a very good investigation.

 

[jay-jay]

Mid Dec 2012. RT from Oscar.
"Find someone who knows how lucky they are to have you."

Narcissistic much??

.. good grief!

 

[shane13]

Are you not perhaps confusing the 1 phone that looked like 2?

i.e. 1 part phone back and 1 part cover, that was initially thought to be two phones.

I am not the one doing any confusing here.

 

[shane13]

You're welcome. I don't remember changing my settings when I joined a few years ago, because there would have been no reason to. And if I did, I have no recollection of it, kind of like how OP has no recollection of anyone but himself making any sounds that night!

WOW, what an analogy.
LOL

 

[Gbtaketwo]

To be honest I liked batman a lot, all the way up to where he said gunshots before bat , right then I knew something was wrong so I paid attention. And minutes later I understood what he was saying, he was conflating that the bat strike marks and the bat being used to pry the panel loose happened as one event. He did that wrongly IMO, but innocently too. He works in a laboratory and has decades of experience in this stuff so it is a huge part of his life, but in this case him being isolated from even reading OPs affidavit led him to make that wrong statement. He did clarify that it was not scientifically possible to say with certainty which came first, bat or gunshot, so again I see him as a dedicate professional and he did a very good investigation.

I had to watch his testimony quite a few times to fully understand him. He struck me as being honest but nervous ,mixed in with a bit of Mr Bean . It is not a funny situation but I did laugh the way he was when handling the bat and the tape measure which initially make me doubt his competence until I had thought more about it .

 

[steveml]

I am not the one doing any confusing here.

If you can let us know where the 5th phone was found, it may throw some light?

 

[fox1lady]

...why even touch the watch case?

WTH even go upsatairs?

I reckon they were thinking of bribing someone with the watches... why the heck else would they be of any importance at that time?

 

[Insp.Dots]

.. good grief!

He could have been saying that to anyone.....not necessarily talking about himself. Though I agree he is arrogant.

 

[shane13]

To be honest I liked batman a lot, all the way up to where he said gunshots before bat , right then I knew something was wrong so I paid attention. And minutes later I understood what he was saying, he was conflating that the bat strike marks and the bat being used to pry the panel loose happened as one event. He did that wrongly IMO, but innocently too. He works in a laboratory and has decades of experience in this stuff so it is a huge part of his life, but in this case him being isolated from even reading OPs affidavit led him to make that wrong statement. He did clarify that it was not scientifically possible to say with certainty which came first, bat or gunshot, so again I see him as a dedicate professional and he did a very good investigation.

Glad someone else here got this testimony basically right.
If you listen real carefully he also implied bat strikes could have happened not all at once. Which fits in with my horrirfic hypothetical scenario.

 

[TorisMom003]

If you can let us know where the 5th phone was found, it may throw some light?

Wasn't that the one that was handed over by defense after the state phone guy received a copy of a bill for a phone that he had no clue even existed?

 

[shane13]

If you can let us know where the 5th phone was found, it may throw some light?

Huh?!

All this info has been kept to PT and DT themselves.

It was illegally taken from crime scene; that is all we know!
So how can you ask me such a thing?

 

[shane13]

Does not anyone else find this deeply troubling?

Col van Rensburg testified gloves were right there in Col. Motha’s breast pocket.
“Crime scene 101” from a trainee would likely have seen the trainee putting on the gloves before handling the gun.

A Colonel with decades of experience, not putting on his gloves before handling the gun??

And of course, should the judge choose to do so, she could cite this as a key piece of SAPS mishandling the case—even though she would think OP is prob guilty of culpable or premeditated murder.

I am saying this can get OP off if the Judge should choose to cite/use this.

But deeper is the issue of how could this happen. Someone with decades of experience is like someone trying to go into their home, and all of a sudden tries to walk through the door, forgetting the usual habit of inserting and turning a key!

Only if the person has Alzheimer’s would someone not try to get into their home in the usual way.

But here, something that after decades is second hand nature, habit, call it what you like…


And here is another key aspect:
Lt. Col. Motha made sure to do this while his Commander, Col. van Rensburg, was watching him.

This one runs deep.

 

[Viper]

No, I get that .. but I'm just a bit confused about why a different scenario would need to be put forward when a definite one has already been provided by the ballistics expert

BIB Because the defense team needs Reeva's screams, immediately before and during the shootig, to magically disappear; make it that no one ever heard Reeva's death screams. To do that she needs to be killed instantly with a bullet to her head before any other shots are fired. So the DT ballistic expert is going to say Reeva was just getting off the toilet (because that is why she was in the WC :no when the first shot went through her brain killing and the second shot followed immediately (double tap) hitting her in the hip as she slid off of the toilet and the 3rd or 4th shot hit her upper arm just before it fell behind the toilet. These hired "experts" can be truthful people or they can say whatever their employer wants, it is fairly easy to screw around with this but I don't believe that his version will be believable compared to the truthful bullet guy's investigation results and testimony.

 

[TorisMom003]

Glad someone else here got this testimony basically right.
If you listen real carefully he also implied bat strikes could have happened not all at once. Which fits in with my horrirfic hypothetical scenario.

BBM

Has this scenario been posted before? I can't remember if I have read one before or not.

 

[jay-jay]

[/B]

BIB. Some might say... But I disagree. It is a wooden door passing over a marble floor, there is a gap, enough to see where someone's standing or sitting if they are on the floor.

I've looked at quite a few pictures of that toilet door now, and the gap under it is so tiny (probably no more than half a centimetre) that that would be impossible. It looks no different to my own bathroom door, and you cannot even see the area of floor just under the door itself let alone anything behind it!

 

[TorisMom003]

Does not anyone else find this deeply troubling?

Col van Rensburg testified gloves were right there in Col. Motha’s breast pocket.
“Crime scene 101” from a trainee would likely have seen the trainee putting on the gloves before handling the gun.

A Colonel with decades of experience, not putting on his gloves before handling the gun??

And of course, should the judge choose to do so, she could cite this as a key piece of SAPS mishandling the case—even though she would think OP is prob guilty of culpable or premeditated murder.

I am saying this can get OP off if the Judge should choose to cite/use this.

But deeper is the issue of how could this happen. Someone with decades of experience is like someone trying to go into their home, and all of a sudden tries to walk through the door, forgetting the usual habit of inserting and turning a key!

Only if the person has Alzheimer’s would someone not try to get into their home in the usual way.

But here, something that after decades is second hand nature, habit, call it what you like…


And here is another key aspect:
Lt. Col. Motha made sure to do this while his Commander, Col. van Rensburg, was watching him.

This one runs deep.

Deeply troubling? No, not for me. The reason being that no one is saying that OP never fired that gun that night or that he did not kill Reeva. Now, if OP was claiming that a stranger came into the house, took OP's gun and then used it to kill Reeva I would have a problem with it.

Who fired the gun has never been in question.