Trial Discussion Thread #19 - 14.04.07, Day 17

[minor4th]

Yeah, so, there you go - there are certainly those who believe this was a planned killing ...

 

[Gryffindor]

With OP shouting that there was and intruder, I think she may well have been "primed" to keep very, very quiet and stand by the door.

Besides I don't think the concept of being "primed to scream" was explored or shown to be true. It sounds nuts to me. "Primed" or not, the fact remains that with the shock of being shot she may not have had time to react and scream within 4 seconds or so.
Any sound would be VERY brief and cut off by the shot to the head, and perhaps masked by the 4 loud bangs.

Still and quiet, fearful of burglar. Oscar shot once, heard the clatter on magazine rack. Panicked, thinking it was the burglar and/or they were coming out. Shot another 3 times . . . .

 

[minor4th]

I did, relentlessly! Four bullets fired at a person, three hit his victim, and he admits that he intended his shots to kill or cause GBH to a person. Yup, premeditated (planned) murder.

But do you believe that he planned to kill Reeva?

 

[DebinGA]

Oscar proclaimed his love in the affi pretty clearly: "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way."

OP must have missed RS's msg saying, despite her best efforts to please him, he never seemed happy and she knew she was unhappy and sad. And her msg close to her death where she said something about intending to tell him that weekend that she'd fallen for him but then something happened that made her think they were not meant to be together.

 

[TorisMom003]

Just to be clear, do you think OP planned to kill Reeva or not?

I have said before that yes I do. But it doesn't matter in the trial really as he intended to kill the person behind the door, intruder or not. That alone is murder. He was not in danger when he killed Reeva/"intruder". He was not facing down the barrel of a gun when he killed Reeva/"intruder". He was not looking at a knife that was being pointed in his direction when he killed Reeva/"intruder". He was looking at a door.

MOO

 

[Viper]

Could very well be - as he planted the tweet about the intruder to cover him indefinitely.

I can't believe he has the judge melting in his hand.

"I'm tired. I have a lot of things on my mind," Oscar says

"Okay, let's break," she responds.


This could get bent...

I would not look for that to continue past today. OP is going to have to put on his "big boy" pants and face the music.

 

[kittychi]

Or maybe because he was very attached to Reeva and didn't meant to kill her and misses her and is very depressed.

Why would he intentionally murder someone and think it would just go away? That makes no sense at all.

None of this has the elements of a planned killing.

I am still struggling with 1. premeditation, 2. intentional murder and 3. heat of the moment/crime of passion. I think it was the #3, but in court I don't if that means premeditation.

I don't doubt at all that he deeply regrets what he did.

 

[Viper]

But do you believe that he planned to kill Reeva?

Yup. But I said that already!

 

[TorisMom003]

Still and quiet, fearful of burglar. Oscar shot once, heard the clatter on magazine rack. Panicked, thinking it was the burglar and/or they were coming out. Shot another 3 times . . . .

So OP could hear the "intruder" fall onto the magazine rack but not hear Reeva screaming? Somehow I don't think that will work.

Wait, I forgot, all of those witnesses that heard a woman screaming for her life really heard OP screaming in falsetto before he even fired the gun the first time at the door. OP then continued to scream in falsetto while firing the gun 4 times and only stopped after the 4th shot.

:banghead:

 

[Cherwell]

I would use the word "planned" to indicate something that was planned in advance. As distinct from something done on the spur of the moment, although intentionally. I do not believe this was planned in advance, and I don't recall seeing anyone suggest that here.

 

[TorisMom003]

OP must have missed RS's msg saying, despite her best efforts to please him, he never seemed happy and she knew she was unhappy and sad. And her msg close to her death where she said something about intending to tell him that weekend that she'd fallen for him but then something happened that made her think they were not meant to be together.

Nah, he didn't miss them. But he was hoping the State, judge, media and the rest of the world did.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

I have said before that yes I do. But it doesn't matter in the trial really as he intended to kill the person behind the door, intruder or not. That alone is murder. He was not in danger when he killed Reeva/"intruder". He was not facing down the barrel of a gun when he killed Reeva/"intruder". He was not looking at a knife that was being pointed in his direction when he killed Reeva/"intruder". He was looking at a door.

MOO

Well, yes it does matter a great deal whether he intended to kill Reeva as opposed to intending to kill an intruder.

Not speaking legally but just moral culpability - do you see no difference whether OP intended to kill an intruder who he believed had come to harm him compared to planning and intending to kill Reeva?

 

[minor4th]

I am still struggling with 1. premeditation, 2. intentional murder and 3. heat of the moment/crime of passion. I think it was the #3, but in court I don't if that means premeditation.

I don't doubt at all that he deeply regrets what he did.

So you believe that he never thought there was an intruder, but he chased Reeva into the bathroom with his gun and killed her deliberately?

 

[minor4th]

Yup. But I said that already!

So no intruder, that was all just made up - OP at some point that night decided he was going to kill Reeva and what? Waited for her to go to the bathroom to shoot her? Or what?

 

[wb180]

Well, yes it does matter a great deal whether he intended to kill Reeva as opposed to intending to kill an intruder.

Not speaking legally but just moral culpability - do you see no difference whether OP intended to kill an intruder who he believed had come to harm him compared to planning and intending to kill Reeva?

I don't get the feeling from him (despite his words) that he believed the intruder came to harm him - it seems like he went to harm the intruder.

 

[minor4th]

I would use the word "planned" to indicate something that was planned in advance. As distinct from something done on the spur of the moment, although intentionally. I do not believe this was planned in advance, and I don't recall seeing anyone suggest that here.

I am using the word "planned" to mean that he shot at Reeva knowing it was her and with the intention of killing her - whether that plan was formed a week in advance or a few minutes before he fired his gun

Read up - several are suggesting that he planned to kill Reeva - in advance.

 

[anagrammy]

Which then begs the question, if he wasn't all that bothered, how upset would Reeva have been with him?

We may never know what his plans were of course but given his testimony today about being "bowled over" and buying the house along with his other other declarations of how much he loved her and as it was their first Valentine, I doubt it would have went unobserved. MOO.

Wait a minute! None of the thousand plus texts had "I love you" in it. No "love you" sign offs and no "love you more" replies.

There was one mention, Reeva said she couldn't wait to see what he had in mind for Valentine's Day "for his love."

Maybe finding out it was a big fat goose egg was what kicked off the fight. It is unforgiveable to do absolutely nothing for Val Day when you have only been dating for three months. Nothing for one of the most desirable women in the world?

I don't think that went down well at all.

 

[TorisMom003]

Well, yes it does matter a great deal whether he intended to kill Reeva as opposed to intending to kill an intruder.

Not speaking legally but just moral culpability - do you see no difference whether OP intended to kill an intruder who he believed had come to harm him compared to planning and intending to kill Reeva?

The "facts" of this case show that OP did not react in a reasonable manner if he truly felt that there was an intruder in the house. I also find it morally wrong to kill someone that is not in any way, shape or form posing a threat to me. Firing 4 bullets into the door of a toilet room when "not knowing" who was behind that door, what their intention was, if they had a weapon, etc is morally wrong to me.

MOO

 

[Viper]

So no intruder, that was all just made up - OP at some point that night decided he was going to kill Reeva and what? Waited for her to go to the bathroom to shoot her? Or what?

No Minor. You have read my posts for some time now. Playing with conjecture and speculation is fun during the day, but it is growing late for me and soon I will need to get some rest so that I can watch the rest of OPs meltdown. What a loser this guy is!

 

[Gryffindor]

So OP could hear the "intruder" fall onto the magazine rack but not hear Reeva screaming? Somehow I don't think that will work.

Wait, I forgot, all of those witnesses that heard a woman screaming for her life really heard OP screaming in falsetto before he even fired the gun the first time at the door. OP then continued to scream in falsetto while firing the gun 4 times and only stopped after the 4th shot.

:banghead:

Why would he want to/intend to kill her though?

Throw everything away he'd worked for, over a girl he'd dated for about 3 months? Wasn't his 1st girlfriend and wouldn't have been his last, I'm sure.