Trial Discussion Thread #2 - 14.03.07, Day 5

[katydid23]

The interpreter made the mistake and apologised to the court. Again a problem with the interpretation not the testimony. Baba corrected her in English, so it seems he speaks English too but perhaps not well enough for the court.

^^^which points out a problem with some of the SA news commentators. When listening to the radio between the trial, some of them have mistakenly said very supportive statements of the defense team. Like I heard one saying today that it was a very important point that Roux was making about the difference between those two words. When, in fact, it was a mistake by the interpreter.

Also, I heard one saying that in fact the ex girlfriend had lied when she said OP cheated on her, because she was the one who cheated on OP> Where did he get that from? Was it the bluff that Roux had incriminating emails, which he never brought forth?

On the whole, the SA media seems very pro-Oscar. :moo:

 

[soozieqtips]

when the guard was speaking to OP on the phone, what language were they speaking?

I ask because of the confusion over the terms OK vs FINE. If one is translating from english, those terms are interchangeable. So I don't understand why Roux was making such a big issue of those two words.

I was confused about that too. Then I read that he was querying whether OP had said "I'm fine" or "Everything's fine". "I'm fine" indicates OP is unhurt, and "everything's fine" means, hmmm, the situation's under control? Will try and find where I read it.

On another note, Sam Taylor said there had been TWO occasions where OP had heard noises and woken her up first before going to investigate with a gun. I thought it was once.

 

[whiterum]

http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/12/EWN-Exclusive-Taylor-Memmory-speaks-on-Oscar-Pistorius

OP certainly has some anger issues!! If he can punch a top panel right off his large outside door, did he really need a cricket bat to bash in an interior toilet door panel.

CTM: On the 12th of September 2009, I attended a party at Oscar’s house. He was dating a friend of mine and it was the second time I had met him. I, along with two other friends, arrived late as we had been at our part-time student jobs. The party was held out in his garden and I sat with my girlfriends. During the night, Oscar and Melissa had a fight. This led to Oscar asking all of Melissa’s friends to leave (using vulgar language) which included myself. I had left my handbag in the garden where we all had been sitting and needed to get back into his property to fetch it (we had all gone outside with Melissa). As I approached his large outside doors, Oscar was furiously trying to close them. He started to punch the door and that is when one of the top panels fell and hit my left leg. Six weeks prior to the party my plaster cast had just come off after having reconstructive surgery on my left ankle. After this happened I went to tell Oscar that he had hurt me, to which he replied “well go call your ******ing lawyer”.

 

[Interested Bystander]

^^^which points out a problem with some of the SA news commentators. When listening to the radio between the trial, some of them have mistakenly said very supportive statements of the defense team. Like I heard one saying today that it was a very important point that Roux was making about the difference between those two words. When, in fact, it was a mistake by the interpreter.

Also, I heard one saying that in fact the ex girlfriend had lied when she said OP cheated on her, because she was the one who cheated on OP> Where did he get that from? Was it the bluff that Roux had incriminating emails, which he never brought forth?

On the whole, the SA media seems very pro-Oscar. :moo:

He never got to the bottom of that because apparently they broke up twice. I suspect OP used old emails to try to prove a point. So we never really heard exactly what happened. Roux obviously thought it was not worth pursuing the point.

 

[Carol70]

So you are saying that the guard was at OP's house at about 2:20?

Then that does not contradict the witness.

Your other points are also well thought out. So there may not be much contradiction to the earwitness hearing the loud arguing afterall. But I can see the 2 sides fighting over this aspect.

Thank you IB.

Nope, there is no definite time given as to when he passed..but was definitely LESS than an hour it seems.

14:40 - Baba says he passed OP house less than an hour earlier and all was fine and quiet. After 02:20.

 

[katydid23]

I was confused about that too. Then I read that he was querying whether OP had said "I'm fine" or "Everything's fine". "I'm fine" indicates OP is unhurt, and "everything's fine" means, hmmm, the situation's under control? Will try and find where I read it.

On another note, Sam Taylor said there had been TWO occasions where OP had heard noises and woken her up first before going to investigate with a gun. I thought it was once.

True, he questioned the I'm fine vs the we're fine...BUT THEN he went on to OK vs Fine. I listened to it live. He made a big issue out of the two words and went round and round about it.

 

[katydid23]

Katy:
Going over this in my head.
Seems that Fine is stronger (maybe), and I can see why Roux wanted clarification.

I think there are connotations, viz OK is like passably good, while fine is closer to very good.

What say you Katy and all?

But if you have just shot your gf 4 times at close range, then NEITHER fine nor OK is appropriate term to use.

 

[soozieqtips]

I found this, but it's not where I originally read it.

Prosecutors are trying to build a case that Pistorius, one of South Africa's most celebrated sportsmen, intentionally killed Ms Steenkamp after a fight and attempted to cover it up by saying he thought she was an intruder.

'Mr Pistorius' exact words were, "Security, everything is fine",' Mr Baba said when defence lawyer Barry Roux argued Pistorius actually said 'I'm fine' on the call

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2575899/Oscar-Pistorius-told-security-guard-Pieter-Baba-fine-shooting-Reeva-Steenkamp.html?ico=sport^headlines

I interpret 'I'm fine' to mean I'm okay, not hurt - and 'everything's fine' to mean a situation is under control. That's my meaning of it anyway.

 

[Interested Bystander]

So you are saying that the guard was at OP's house at about 2:20?

Then that does not contradict the witness.

Your other points are also well thought out. So there may not be much contradiction to the earwitness hearing the loud arguing afterall. But I can see the 2 sides fighting over this aspect.
Thank you IB.

LOL You are so right. Roux will stir as much as he can. IMO he doesn't have much going for his theories at the moment.

I do have to say he was quite gentle with ST. Perhaps her tears (when she was asked to discuss the two break ups) got to him. I thought she was refreshing to listen to. A total lack of sophistication, no obvious malice, her answers seemed genuine and not gauged to cause trouble. For someone so young she did well.

 

[katydid23]

I found this, but it's not where I originally read it.

Prosecutors are trying to build a case that Pistorius, one of South Africa's most celebrated sportsmen, intentionally killed Ms Steenkamp after a fight and attempted to cover it up by saying he thought she was an intruder.

'Mr Pistorius' exact words were, "Security, everything is fine",' Mr Baba said when defence lawyer Barry Roux argued Pistorius actually said 'I'm fine' on the call

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2575899/Oscar-Pistorius-told-security-guard-Pieter-Baba-fine-shooting-Reeva-Steenkamp.html?ico=sport^headlines

I interpret 'I'm fine' to mean I'm okay, not hurt - and 'everything's fine' to mean a situation is under control. That's my meaning of it anyway.

Right, but either way it is very damning to OP>

He has security on the line and he says IM FINE, but does not ask them to call an ambulance for his dying girlfriend?

 

[shane13]

He never got to the bottom of that because apparently they broke up twice. I suspect OP used old emails to try to prove a point. So we never really heard exactly what happened. Roux obviously thought it was not worth pursuing the point.

IB, IMO there is so much going on here at many levels beneath the surface.

Just beneath: It's clear to me that Nel and Roux seem to have gotten together at least for the iniital part and wanted to leave out the billionaire
Quinton van der Burgh.

This was the unmentionable person that Sam T went out with while OP was in London. Even though ST says and i think the emails prove it, the 2 had broken up, OP went to confront Quinton in front of others and threatened him: "I'll break your legs and **** you up"—or words to that effect.

Then Quinton got the ex-rugby player and TV announcer with a shady record, Mark Barchelor to call up OP and threaten him, which OP wouild have none of and threatened him back. And OP then went to the Hawks (maybe equivalent to FBI) and asked that MB be charged etc. Hawks did not charge anyone.

I think MB is on the witness list, the billionaire Quinton I think is not. (But didn't check lately.)

But QVDB is the one that ST was testifying that OP went into very serious rage about! Curiously both sides allowed the mention of this rage incident without naming the person involved! Which seems irregular to not cite essential aspects of an event--but clearly both sides had prior agreed to this. IMO

But I found it fascinating during the trial today because I knew who the unmentionable person was and could see that the 2 parties cooperated or coilluded. But maybe they simply agreed not to get into it now?

But will later? It will be fascinating to see what MB will say about OP.

 

[shane13]

But if you have just shot your gf 4 times at close range, then NEITHER fine nor OK is appropriate term to use.

Yes that's true of course, but Roux, we have seen, seems to want to fight over ever millimeter of hope for his client. His job, of course.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

shane: Shortly after the "everything is fine" conversation ended, OP called him back. "Maybe he wasn't so sure about calling me back" were the exact words the guard said. He then goes on to say that OP just cried and then call ended.

 

[soozieqtips]

Right, but either way it is very damning to OP>

He has security on the line and he says IM FINE, but does not ask them to call an ambulance for his dying girlfriend?

It's absolutely damning, which is why I couldn't understand why Roux was nit picking about it. Maybe he was playing for time because he'd been caught off guard by a statement that totally shows OP in a dark light, hiding the fact he'd mortally wounded his girlfriend and making out nothing was wrong. Unbelievable that he could possibly act in that manner when he knew his dying (or dead) loved one lay upstairs where he'd just killed her. Who acts like that after such an event? The more I hear about him, like no respect for the police, screaming at girlfriend and various other people, getting someone else to take the blame for him setting off the gun in a restaurant, reckless driving, reckless with firearms, I have to conclude he's immature, narcissistic and has a very weak moral compass.

 

[Mountain Misst]

:goldcrown: Thank you all for making the time in your busy lives to give us a running commentary over the past 5 days. Muchly appreciated.

Just one thing I noticed is in relation to the cricket bat. I would suggest that if I were attacking a person I would likely swing the bat/build the tension before the strike/release, however if I were attempting to break down a door in a confined space I would more likely use it in a ramming motion - a faster action.

 

[Carol70]

Truth be told, I found Samantha's testimony full of nonsense. I'm actually shocked that Roux didn't lay into her. I'm not going to get into a long drawn out post about why but I literally rolled my eyes when I read that when they were pulled off by police, OP was asked to step out the vehicle (why?? He was not the driver who was speeding) and secondly...who the hell shouts at a South African policeman and gets to drive off?? The only conclusion I can come to as to why OP might have been "angry" and they were allowed to drive off was because the officer solicited a bribe and OP paid it, (naturally this won't be brought up in court as it opens a whole can of worms)...you actually get arrested for speeding in this country, nevermind shouting at police, they don't care who you are..even esteemed members of our society have had the joy of being escorted to the state hotel for speeding. Ithe bribe is the only conclusion I can come up with as to why Roux didn't follow on with this. And SA metro are notorious for soliciting on the spot bribes, it's actually a huge problem in Jhb/Pretoria.

Sorry guys, I have found all the witnesses plausible so far, maybe not agreeing but definitely possibilities but not ST. She is full of it! And really, who drives around in the city you live in and not know where you are or at least ask where are we going??? I don't think roux is finished with her!

 

[Carol70]

Right, but either way it is very damning to OP>

He has security on the line and he says IM FINE, but does not ask them to call an ambulance for his dying girlfriend?

He actually did call netcare after calling stander. We don't know yet the nature of the call however, I would imagine it would be for some kind of help. I assumed they told him to bring her into emergency/no ambulances available hence I surmised the car was in the driveway with the door open when people started to arrive.

 

[zwiebel]

I apologize if anyone did not realize what I said were jokes.
I thought it was clear from the 2 smileys I included.

Again those were joke, and I am sure they would never say or do those things.
I mistakenly thought everyone would immediately realize these were jokes/satire. Trying to add levity to a sad, tragic tale alas.
I will add j/k if I try any more satire.

Sorry

Oh gosh, I missed the irony! I've been out of England too long....

 

[katydid23]

He actually did call netcare after calling stander. We don't know yet the nature of the call however, I would imagine it would be for some kind of help. I assumed they told him to bring her into emergency/no ambulances available hence I surmised the car was in the driveway with the door open when people started to arrive.

right. but he had security on the line and said all was fine. WHY say that?

Even if he did call netcare later on, fact remains, he declined to ask for help earlier when it was quite an urgent situation.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Carol:
The guard Mr. Baba's testimony here appears to [possibly strongly] contradict the one witness who said she heard arguing for the hour leading up to the shooting.

I have thought of this since I heard his testimony.
How strong a contradiction is this?
Is it possible, the pair took a short recess on their hour-long arguing [or call it Reeva's arguing?] and that happened to be just when Mr Baba and crew drove by?

This matter may be strongly contested by the 2 sides later.

Mr Baba says he went past Pistorius' house at 2.20am - when the guard-track was activated - and everything was normal.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-live-3215673

At OP's home several times had been arguing and voilence, each guard was perhaps acquainted with those situations and therefore "everything was normal" though the guard heard dispute or fight?