Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[minor4th]

So it's over already for today? Mediate just shows videos for yesterday(Day17). Thank you.

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

 

[MeeBee]

So it's over already for today? Mediate just shows videos for yesterday(Day17). Thank you.

Yes been over for a while now. The full day is already up on WAT's video archive.

ETA: beat me. Lol.

 

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by 04009margaret
I think his whole story is a lie & he has now convinced himself that it's true, including emotions that go with that story. He only becomes distraught when he has to confront what he has done to Reeva & when he thinks of the consequences for himself.




xxxxxxxxxxx

OP is distraught because he said he doesn't know what the implications of his answers would be.

Exactly, he does not want to be cornered. To me his whole story just does not make sense. If there was enough light to even see the fans....there was light to find the gun....but not enough light to see a human form missing from bed? And "one" noise made him shoot multiple times. Right...anger management problem. Indulged life.

Sure he's sorry now. He knows he has lost everything.

IMO

 

[04009margaret]

And before the police arrived when OP and Ms. Stander went upstairs. Wonder what all was moved around then? And how exactly can the defense prove that the police contaminated the crime scene but yet the numerous people in the home that were there for OP (Stander, Ms. Stander, sister, etc) didn't contaminate the crime scene themselves.

MOO

And OP himself. We know about Reeva's phone, what else did he move?

 

[04009margaret]

Really hard to say because I have never represented a criminal defendant. It's my understanding though that Roux is not even allowed to consult with him until after he is finished with his testimony.

The way I go about things with my clients is basically - let's just get the truth out there and don't be afraid to admit an error if you've made one; be willing to accept the consequences of your own actions and hold others responsible for theirs. I've had clients who were pretty much on the wrong side of things- they had done something stupid or wrong that is going to look bad. I always try to deal with those things up front and have them acknowledge those things and show that they have learned from it.

Kind of vague, I know - but I'm just thinking if I was preparing Oscar for his testimony, I would caution him against being defensive and argumentative, to concede reasonable points and to just be honest. Very important also is for Oscar to ask for clarification if he doesn't understand the question - there were times today when it seemed like he was answering what he thought Nel was asking or even using different terminology when he would have been better off asking for clarification of the question.

Appreciate, I have a feeling Roux instructed him that, but OP is used to being in control & that's where his problem lays.

 

[Interested Bystander]

How to use an iPhone to make an emergency call. You will see towards the end you do not need to use your pass code if you cannot remember it.

How to Make an Emergency Call on iPhone - YouTube

 

[steveml]

I do not use guns but I imagine one has to apply a reasonable amount of pressure to the trigger to make it fire, ie intentionally apply pressure. As Roux would say is that so, or not so? Perhaps someone would like to venture an opinion. Does OP's gun have a safety catch on it too? Is that something that has to be released with each bullet or only at the start of several shots?

That is so m'lady. Gun will keep on firing once safety is off.

:smile:


ETA: you need to squeeze trigger each time tho.

 

[04009margaret]

Yep and I have found the ignore feature to be a useful tool. I would encourage its liberal use by those who have difficulty with particular posters. (I was not at all suggesting that you had said or done anything offensive)

Hey, I said he killed the door, sorry, just couldn't help myself

 

[crasshopper]

I agree that there's a difference - Mrs. Stipp was clearly lying (or she was tricked by the police into signing a statement that they fudged) and Oscar's was an in-artful use of words that has now been clarified - no reason for him to contradict himself and give a different version now. It's not like he totally made up seeing a person that he didn't see.

I'm fascinated by your reasoning...seriously.

 

[jay-jay]

his first call didn't prove to be to the emergency services though. it was to a friend who could help him. so a locked phone was no use to him.

Yes, how can he say that he tried to use Reeva's phone to call NetCare, and yet once he has his own phone to hand, NetCare is not the first person he calls and he phones Stander instead? :facepalm:

01:48:48 – GPRS – 309 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (the remaining are all on the same tower as well)

03:18:45 – GPRS – 75 seconds

03:19:03 – Outgoing call to 2251 (Johan Stander) – 24 seconds

03:20:02 – GPRS – 79 seconds

03:20:05 – Outgoing call to 082911 (ambulance service) – 66 seconds

03:21:22 – GPRS – 61 seconds

03:21:33 – Outgoing call to 6797 (Baba, security) – 9 seconds

03:21:47 – Outgoing call to 121 (voicemail) – 7 seconds

03:22:05 – Incoming call from 6797 (Baba, security)

03:55:02 – Outgoing call to 8888 (Justin Devaris) – 123 seconds


I still can't make out how much of a discussion could have been had with the emergency services that only lasted 66 seconds, either.

 

[BritsKate]

Not really. He hemmed and hawed about it but eventually said that yes he pulled the trigger and the gun didn't go off by accident - but that he shot without having time for reflection or forming a deliberate intent to kill an intruder.

But in the very same statement, he catalogued the things he had time to think about. Literally. Deliberate intent doesn't matter nearly as much as disproving any intent.

This is where I'd think, as an attorney, the 'less is more' credo in testifying would come into play.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[soozieqtips]

Not really. He hemmed and hawed about it but eventually said that yes he pulled the trigger and the gun didn't go off by accident - but that he shot without having time for reflection or forming a deliberate intent to kill an intruder.

He said he had 'many thoughts'. So he had time to have 'many thoughts' but no time for reflection. Hmmm.

 

[minor4th]

Yes, how can he say that he tried to use Reeva's phone to call NetCare, and yet once he has his own phone to hand, NetCare is not the first person he calls and he phones Stander instead? :facepalm:

01:48:48 – GPRS – 309 seconds – tower closest to Oscar’s (the remaining are all on the same tower as well)

03:18:45 – GPRS – 75 seconds

03:19:03 – Outgoing call to 2251 (Johan Stander) – 24 seconds

03:20:02 – GPRS – 79 seconds

03:20:05 – Outgoing call to 082911 (ambulance service) – 66 seconds

03:21:22 – GPRS – 61 seconds

03:21:33 – Outgoing call to 6797 (Baba, security) – 9 seconds

03:21:47 – Outgoing call to 121 (voicemail) – 7 seconds

03:22:05 – Incoming call from 6797 (Baba, security)

03:55:02 – Outgoing call to 8888 (Justin Devaris) – 123 seconds


I still can't make out how much of a discussion could have been had with the emergency services that only lasted 66 seconds, either.

66 seconds seems like a pretty long call to emergency responders - hey, I shot my girlfriend in the head and she's dying, send help quick, my address is blah blah blah ...we'll send an ambulance but you will get help for her more quickly if you drive her to hospital yourself if you're able.

 

[Really?]

What good does it do to kick a door that swings open towards the outside instead of opening towards the inside? The door is not going to swing open after kicking it so why? Unless of course it was out of anger and/or to scare the person in the toilet room.

MOO

nice catch......

 

[minor4th]

He said he had 'many thoughts'. So he had time to have 'many thoughts' but no time for reflection. Hmmm.

Yeah, I believe the "many thoughts" in a single instance of fear is what we might call panic and confusion and not being able to think clearly

 

[Gryffindor]

That is so m'lady. Gun will keep on firing once safety is off.

:smile:


ETA: you need to squeeze trigger each time tho.

In summation, Oscar's "firing by accident" questioning was a shambles.

An appropriate phrase for his firing actions which I would use, would be : auto pilot regarding intruder terror.

 

[TorisMom003]

From the BAS:

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom."

During todays testimony:

I never went onto the balcony.

That is a lie. Either OP lied during his BAS or he lied during his testimony today.

 

[MeeBee]

In summation, Oscar's "firing by accident" questioning was a shambles.

An appropriate phrase for his firing actions which I would use, would be : auto pilot regarding intruder terror.

Yes, I think he was having trouble verbalizing it and Nel was being pedantic.

 

[minor4th]

But in the very same statement, he catalogued the things he had time to think about. Literally. Deliberate intent doesn't matter nearly as much as disproving any intent.

This is where I'd think, as an attorney, the 'less is more' credo in testifying would come into play.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Yes, he let his mouth run a bit, but really if the guy has nothing to hide it's not so necessary that he only give quick concise answers. He got into some difficulty when he was trying to anticipate Nel's thinking and answering questions or explaining things that were not yet asked.

 

[minor4th]

Yes, I think he was having trouble verbalizing it and Nel was being pedantic.

That's exactly what happened.