Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[minor4th]

I don't buy the act. The shaky voice, the cries when it suits him to break. He is guarded because he knows he cannot let the truth slip out and he cannot let Nel get it out of him in a way he's not expecting. No more. No less.

You think it's an act for some reason (probably because you already decided he was guilty?)

I find his emotion to be genuine and not faked. In fact I'm at a loss as to why anyone thinks it is fake. I haven't heard any reasons for that - only bare conclusions that it's fake.

Anyway, I obviously disagree. I think the guy is really suffering and is about to come apart completely.

If there's some truth other than Oscar's version then the state better make it known - so far, all Nel can do is quibble about where a fan was plugged in and equate shooting watermelons to shooting Reeva ..which even the judge said was unfair.

I'm ready for all this truth everyone thinks the State has ..can't imagine why they wouldn't reveal it in their case-in-chief but what do I know of such things?

 

[Gavel Rash]

Why would you believe batman though?

No, Oscar did not say he pried out the panels with the cricket bat. He said he tore them out with his hands once he had an opening to do so

I didn't 'believe' I was using state evidence presented that showed a consistent mark indicative to mark on door at angle bat presented. And I asked why Oscar made no reference to presented evidence to refute this.

 

[MeeBee]

Quote "That's why I find her testimony suspect. She was defensive the whole time, qualified everything, even questions that were pretty harmless. Jodi did this too. "Yeah, that looks like me," Didn't want to give an inch even on small matters because she just didn't Juan to be right on anything and wound up getting caught up in small lies that called her whole testimony into question. If you are honest and forthcoming the entire time people will not question your bias or honesty. If you act defensive the entire time that's a red flag, IMO.
__________________
"He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle"

BIB From Thread 15 re Mrs Stipp's testimony

This kind of thing. To describe Mrs Stipp's defensiveness and then say Jodi did this too is offensive. I know who Jodi Arias is - a liar and convicted murderer, it is not ok to put her in a comment about Mrs Stipp. IMO.

By the way, I do see similarities between Jodi and Oscar on the stand. He comes across to me, at times, as thinking he is smarter than Nel, than everyone and argues back in a similar way. Similar to Jodi did, oscar points out everything everyone else has done wrong.

First of all, that is hardly mocking someone. I was talking about her defensiveness. And, again, I didn't compare her to JA. I was comparing the guardedness of her answers to JA's, because I felt like people would understand what I was trying to say when talking about her reluctance to give any kind of an inch to Roux, even when she did. About 90% of those on this board followed that trial cover to cover. Please stop saying I compared her to a murderer, as if I put them in the same ballpark, when I did no such thing.

I also find his guardedness and reluctance to incriminate himself to be similar to JA's, I actually thought that today. I don't think this makes him a psychopathic killer any more than it makes Mrs. Stipp.

 

[K.T]

I agree. Evidence of this:

* Shooting a gun in a crowded restaurant
* Shooting a gun out the sunroof of a car
* Getting out of the car with a loaded weapon to confront a driver that is "following him"
* Berating Reeva in public for not doing what she was told by him
* Going "Code Red" at the sound of the washing machine turned on


I feel like I am missing some. Anyone that can think of more please feel free to add to the list.

MOO

* Punching a door and breaking out a panel according to Cassidy Memmory, where he settled a lawsuit and paid her legal fees. That fight started when he had a loud argument with his girlfriend Melissa Rom and threw her and her friends out of the house. (Mh hm)

* Reportedly shoved two women and yelled abuse at them when they asked him “what his problem,” was at a Kings Leon concert. He was drunk and “misogynistic.”

* Reportedly told two journalists, in a random moment of conversation, that he had shot a dog after he had hit it with his car.

* Speeding so much that testimony texts referred to his driving.Steenkamp asked him not to drive so fast over the speed limit, as did her mother. He also drove with journalists who documented constant “white knuckle” speeding. Almost having an accident, speeding over a fight with girlfriend.

* His threats of “breaking the legs” Quintin van der Burgh over jealously and his exgirlfriend.

* The story told to a reporter that a roommate couldn’t live with him because all he did was “yell” at people on his pone all night

* Taylor testified Pistorius he would “scream” at her while arguing in front of others.

* The boat crash where he hit a jetty and required facial reconstruction.

(The good writing about the concert abuse story "Hero or Hooligan: http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Oscar-Pistorius-Hero-or-Hooligan-20111103)

He has problems controlling his emotions.

 

[Trooper]

reading back.. it was interesting to note peoples reaction to Oscars howling the first time he went to pieces... posters described it as 'heart wrenching', 'gut wrenching,' 'haunting'. . 'pitiable'...

the descriptors were accurate.. not one mistook it for a female voice, though.


Mrs VD Merwe , Mrs Burger, Mrs Stipp, Dr Stipp, all said it was a female voice they heard, but they applied the descriptors from a totally different spectrum.. . 'terrified'.' terrified, terrified'.. 'blood curdling'.. 'frightened'... 'painfilled'....

The court has heard Oscar screaming under immense and intense emotion..haunted, gutwrenched, heartwrenched... ( he has said he is 'fighting for his life' in the courtroom )

the people who could describe Reevas last screams heard her under intense and immense emotion.. pain, fear, terror. Fighting for her life in a locked cubicle........

does anyone doubt these witnesses applied the wrong descriptors to what they heard?? do you think the court will dismiss their descriptors??

does anyone think the court will apply the wrong descriptors to Oscars involuntary (perhaps) howls?

I think the court will label them both as correct calls, and dismiss the idea that one could be mistaken for the other.

 

[Viper]

morning , Viper... wasn't Oscar ingenious with his answer about the Ammo , the illegal ammo in the safe...!.... didn't belong to me, keeping it for dad. .don't have a gun that fires that ammo..

but if you look again at his order for his armory with Sean Rennes.. there it is. the very gun that uses that ammo.. the Mossberg..

Indeed! Laws mean (meant) nothing to OP, he is (was in his mind) somehow above everything that a civilized society requires. That is why IMO he took to killing Reeva -

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I don't buy the act. The shaky voice, the cries when it suits him to break. He is guarded because he knows he cannot let the truth slip out and he cannot let Nel get it out of him in a way he's not expecting. No more. No less.

I agree and by the way.Why was the bathroom door locked? Was Reva scared he was going to hurt her? He knew she was in the bathroom.

 

[Duchy]

I would argue that if he can't say specifically his actions caused her death, then he hasn't really owned it. He says "mistake", "tragedy" "accident" easily, but there is absolutely no ownership in that at all. I don't see how you can argue it does. He can't even admit he pulled the trigger without obscuring in language that takes away all of his own action.

He is a long way from accepting it and owning it. He's still in a fetal position denial of his deadly actions. Clear as day, he is trying hard to escape responsibility.

The words are very important. And he finally said them.

Did he? When Nel said 'say it, say you shot and killed Reeva' I heard him say 'I did'.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

He is really trying to get sympathy by bringing up his prosthetic legs over and over.Even to remove them in court.PRETORIA, South Africa – Oscar Pistorius detailed Tuesday what he said were the terror-filled moments before he shot Reeva Steenkamp to death, delivering court testimony at his murder trial that included him removing his prosthetic legs to illustrate the events that led to the fatal shooting.Please tell me they are not buying this.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...ship-with-girlfriend-on-second-day-testimony/

 

[Rumpole]

I agree and by the way.Why was the bathroom door locked? Was Reva scared he was going to hurt her? He knew she was in the bathroom.

Very possibly she locked it and then kept very quiet when OP shouted that there was an intruder.

 

[Trooper]

Yes. an obvious concocted idea.
Easy..ask Oscar to produce a receipt in his fathers name for the ammo.

no way.. Then Dad gets done for being in possession of..

Oscar, bless his heart , has cried out quite gutwrenchingly how his former 'great love' of guns has dissipated completely.. replaced now with a pathological aversion to guns, but Dad hasn't. .. and I bet he wont. I 'd put good money on Pistorious the Elder to deny his ownership of that ammo.

 

[minor4th]

I didn't 'believe' I was using state evidence presented that showed a consistent mark indicative to mark on door at angle bat presented. And I asked why Oscar made no reference to presented evidence to refute this.

He did though - he said he tore the panels out with his hands

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Did he? When Nel said 'say it, say you shot and killed Reeva' I heard him say 'I did'.

All he admits he shot her but only because he thought she was an intruder.He never has said I deliberately shot Reva.

 

[minor4th]

reading back.. it was interesting to note peoples reaction to Oscars howling the first time he went to pieces... posters described it as 'heart wrenching', 'gut wrenching,' 'haunting'. . 'pitiable'...

the descriptors were accurate.. not one mistook it for a female voice, though.


Mrs VD Merwe , Mrs Burger, Mrs Stipp, Dr Stipp, all said it was a female voice they heard, but they applied the descriptors from a totally different spectrum.. . 'terrified'.' terrified, terrified'.. 'blood curdling'.. 'frightened'... 'painfilled'....

The court has heard Oscar screaming under immense and intense emotion..haunted, gutwrenched, heartwrenched... ( he has said he is 'fighting for his life' in the courtroom )

the people who could describe Reevas last screams heard her under intense and immense emotion.. pain, fear, terror. Fighting for her life in a locked cubicle........

does anyone doubt these witnesses applied the wrong descriptors to what they heard?? do you think the court will dismiss their descriptors??

does anyone think the court will apply the wrong descriptors to Oscars involuntary (perhaps) howls?

I think the court will label them both as correct calls, and dismiss the idea that one could be mistaken for the other.

Oh, yeah. Especially since the gunshots were at 3:10 so Reeva was dead when these other witnesses heard a woman screaming in terror or whatever emotional descriptions they came up with.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Quote:
Originally Posted by minor4th View Post
Why would you believe batman though?

'No, Oscar did not say he pried out the panels with the cricket bat. He said he tore them out with his hands once he had an opening to do so
I didn't 'believe' I was using state evidence presented that showed a consistent mark indicative to mark on door at angle bat presented. And I asked why Oscar made no reference to presented evidence to refute this.'

So bat intimidation first...she wont come out, he goes to room gets gun and shoots, probably not to kill, but we did see the watermelon (at the door,with the crack in it, and can see...not a person of course!) knows door is locked picks up same bat, prys open panel it falls in and he rips out rest with hands..and grabs key without seeing the dead person...until,...he throws open the door!

He soooo wanted to look in the crack...because he already had!

 

[minor4th]

All he admits he shot her but only because he thought she was an intruder.He never has said I deliberately shot Reva.

Because he didn't - according to him. That's his whole defense!

 

[minor4th]

Quote:
Originally Posted by minor4th View Post
Why would you believe batman though?

'No, Oscar did not say he pried out the panels with the cricket bat. He said he tore them out with his hands once he had an opening to do so
I didn't 'believe' I was using state evidence presented that showed a consistent mark indicative to mark on door at angle bat presented. And I asked why Oscar made no reference to presented evidence to refute this.'

So bat intimidation first...she wont come out, he goes to room gets gun and shoots, probably not to kill, but we did see the watermelon (at the door,with the crack in it, and can see...not a person of course!) knows door is locked picks up same bat, prys open panel it falls in and he rips out rest with hands..and grabs key without seeing the dead person...until,...he throws open the door!

He soooo wanted to look in the crack...because he already had!

Not following you, and I have a hard time relating to posts that come across as being in the mind of OP or knowing him personally or having an exclusive and accurate belief about what he thought and why

 

[Gavel Rash]

Oh, yeah. Especially since the gunshots were at 3:10 so Reeva was dead when these other witnesses heard a woman screaming in terror or whatever emotional descriptions they came up with.

Except the gun shots were never at 3.10am, they were at 3.16am.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Not following you, and I have a hard time relating to posts that come across as being in the mind of OP or knowing him personally or having an exclusive and accurate belief about what he thought and why

What the??? They are called opinions like anyone else........the fact that I may infer that Oscars mind or personality is not what he portrays to the public is something many have described.

 

[TorisMom003]

Very possibly she locked it and then kept very quiet when OP shouted that there was an intruder.

But according to his testimony in court he "whispered" to Reeva instead of yelling at her to call police. Then he yelled at the "intruder" to get out of his house. Completely different version than his BAS and his plea statement.