Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[soozieqtips]

minor4th - have you got to the part yet where OP admits certain details in his affidavit are untrue, but explains them away by saying he wasn't there when it was written? He appears to have knowingly signed a document that he knew contained incorrect information and did not at any point attempt to correct it. I'd like to know your thoughts on that based on the whole Mrs Stipp incident where she was accused of being a liar and had her credibility demolished - even though she did correct her error, and OP did not... now OP is in the same situation (but without having seen fit to correct his error) and I'd like to know what your feelings are on this so far.

 

[04009margaret]

i have never worked this one out. is it left side as you look from the end of the bed, or left side as you are in the bed [face up/or face down]

would be much clearer if they referred to either the window side of the bed, or the bathroom side of the bed. imo

Sorry if answered already, catching up on posts. If your standing at the foot of the bed

 

[Duchy]

:silly:

See above posts.

If Nel had asked him if ever uttered the phrase zombie stopper, and OP said no, then you could argue that's a lie.

I do not think he lied. I think he didn't know what the heck Nel was talking about.

 

[minor4th]

minor4th - have you got to the part yet where OP admits certain details in his affidavit are untrue, but explains them away by saying he wasn't there when it was written? He appears to have knowingly signed a document that he knew contained incorrect information and did not at any point attempt to correct it. I'd like to know your thoughts on that based on the whole Mrs Stipp incident where she was accused of being a liar and had her credibility demolished - even though she did correct her error, and OP did not... now OP is in the same situation (but without having seen fit to correct his error) and I'd like to know what your feelings on this so far.

Haven't gotten there yet - just now watched the zombie stopper video. I'll let you know when I get there and what I think.

 

[BritsKate]

Don't know if this will make sense to others. He seems not only to have a 'molly-coddled' personality but is lacking in common-sense and isn't as intelligent as he may first appear??

He is immature in his behaviour and statements at times and seems to need 'mothering' for all his bravado about wanting to be treated as able-bodied in the past, he is portraying a helpless lost little boy?

I'm waiting for him to breakdown and say "It's not my fault, I didn't mean to hurt anybody I was only doing what my Mum and the Solicitor said to do"....

He is doing an Oscar winning performance of the 'helpless disabled' man that I guess suits Roux.
Certainly not coming across as 'cold blooded killer'....
Lots more to come, Don't think it would take much to go either way at the moment. MOO:truce:

I'm not seeing Helpless Disabled Man. I'm seeing able-bodied, can do anything anyone else can, until its in my best interest to be Helpless Disabled Man. But I'm hardly impartial.

I agree wholeheartedly he isn't the brightest crayon in the box which surprised me a lot. I expected him to be savvy and he really isn't. I do hope Roux reiterates it isn't good to simply regurgitate defense talking points repeatedly.

 

[soozieqtips]

Haven't gotten there yet - just now watched the zombie stopper video. I'll let you know when I get there and what I think.

Okay, thanks :smile:

 

[04009margaret]

Ugh, just started listening to the cross examination. First question and he already sounds defensive

It gets very ugly Minor

 

[minor4th]

Sheesh - Nel is getting a little carried away trying to torment OP with the watermelon comparison to Reeva. Glad the judge said she thought that was unfair.

This worked against Nel. It provoked a sincere emotional breakdown from OP, which just arouses more sympathy for him, even from the judge.

 

[Duchy]

... and me (looking the melone-zombie video)! I would say, it is OP's voice!

:bang:

 

[G.bng]

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Botha - incorrect written statement

Dr. Stipp - wasn't knowing what he does because of "overwhelming" and didn't help

Reeva didn't bring in the fans and close the curtains as he'd asked

The guard dogs he acquired didn't guard and were too friendly

 

[moomin]

Did anyone else pick up on the different times Reeva was not breathing , then breathing, then struggling to breathe ? Forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't he say after breaking in the toilette he got to Reeva and she wasn't breathing ? Then after carrying her downstairs he put his fingers in her mouth because she was struggling to breathe !

 

[kittychi]

I'm just not convinced OP shot RS on purpose. What the Prosecutor is trying to drag out in minutia explanation only took probably less than 5-20 seconds. OP is on his stumps, jumping out of bed in a waking stupor, grabs his gun. Shoots.... pow! pow! pow! pow! The rest and in a state of shock, OP quite possibly does not remember except as it came back in flashes of memory. The Prosecutor is asking for specific details of time. OP accepts responsibility for what he did. It's the degree he must be held accountable which is in question.

Now, this is the main reason I refuse to have a gun in my house. That and I'd most likely use it on myself when I'm in one of those deep black funks to which I'm prone.

Stupor? He claims to have brought fans in, closed doors, etc. before he shot.

You are going on the assumption that OP's affidavit or "version" is the truth. I think we disagree because I am assuming his affi is mostly a lie.

Not saying who is right or wrong, just pointing out 180 degree diametrically opposed opinions based on the same information. Very interesting!

:sleuth:

 

[Viper]

It does make perfect sense. And I agree for the most part.

I think he is very far removed from the every day person on the street, and that kind of shows.

I also think he has a big hang up about his disability - some of this I got from reading his book - and I believe it's uncomfortable for him to admit to shortcomings and vulnerabilities related to his disability. He has spent his whole life trying to negate it.

BIB. LOL! Roux tried at least three times to get OP to admit to his viewing *advertiser censored*, just to get it out of the way. And all three times OP answered a different question, so Roux finally gave up! :floorlaugh:

 

[04009margaret]

Don't know if this will make sense to others. He seems not only to have a 'molly-coddled' personality but is lacking in common-sense and isn't as intelligent as he may first appear??

He is immature in his behaviour and statements at times and seems to need 'mothering' for all his bravado about wanting to be treated as able-bodied in the past, he is portraying a helpless lost little boy?

I'm waiting for him to breakdown and say "It's not my fault, I didn't mean to hurt anybody I was only doing what my Mum and the Solicitor said to do"....

He is doing an Oscar winning performance of the 'helpless disabled' man that I guess suits Roux.
Certainly not coming across as 'cold blooded killer'....
Lots more to come, Don't think it would take much to go either way at the moment. MOO:truce:

If you read that Vanity Fair article, his father raised the kids to shoot first & ask questions later. It was a family moto

 

[minor4th]

Aww, I was hoping to hear the phrase "zombie apocalypse" during this questioning - but no such luck

 

[nastasya]

I never understood why the bedroom door had to be locked either but now realise it has to be locked because no escape route gives him justification to shoot.

This raises a great point.

In the affidavit the killer claimed that he felt trapped inside the locked bedroom.

But in his testimony he claimed that he went to sleep and told Reeva to lock up for bed.

How did he know the bedroom door was locked? He never tried to open it.

 

[BritsKate]

And I've met Dr Who, Darth Vader and a Dalek.

Sorry, couldn't resist. And it is true, honest.

I believe you because I met Storm Troopers. It was serendipitous. True, hopelessly boring story nobody but me cares about but I really like to torture people I don't know...

British hubby and I met online. He's huge into Star Wars (in a way that it really wasn't all that surprising he'd never been in a long, serious, committed relationship by his mid-30s). He came to Wisconsin to meet me and a Christmas parade was taking place in my city. We go out for Chinese, leave the restaurant, and there are Storm Troopers everywhere. Because every Christmas parade has Storm Troopers, right? It was our sign that we were meant to be. And I've only wished I knew a Time Lord once or twice since that fateful day.

 

[04009margaret]

Didn't OP mutter something briefly about this in one of his rambling utterances?

Did he? I had so many interruptions tonight whilst trying to watch. They also said that ammunition that explodes is referred to as Zombie Stoppers on the range

 

[K.T]

Um, I'm not sure I can listen to Pistorius testimony now... but I think he got some position's wrong compared to the statements.

And not only the fan part debate, which I listened to, where he completely blamed different positions on police ineptitude/sabotage rather than his mistake or an untruth.

Also, did he lay ground in his odd statements yesterday about a person of authority 'caring' for him in a police conversation and car ride, that there's some grand collusion in SAPS for him?

Plus, he says it was Clarice Stander that called all those important people, like herself (a first-responder lawyer) his brother, lawyer, family, best friend business partner and his other team in a helpful murder defendent call-centre.

I have no idea what Pistorius is saying here. It doesn't sound like honest testimony: “I’ve been sitting here and telling the truth, and some of it would be from the truth, and what the state has furnished me, with a mixture of what I can remember. But, on some of the points, and on some of the things, it could be a reconstruction. If I look at the time, I can’t remember how much time, certain things took me that evening. But I can see from the time of the phone calls that are being made that people’s testimony and statements, not just the statements that the state called, but the hundred and something witnesses that the State said they have; I read most of those and all of the statements and that show I have reconstructed some time. Some of the things I remember, that I’ve spoken about myself, that I’ve spoke about what I remembered…in contact of information I have.”

 

[Interested Bystander]

It is so obvious why OP won't answer the question of whether he shot at the door intentionally or not is, although he has stated somewhere he shot at the intruders behind the door, to admit it would mean he has admitted he knew he would likely murder someone and he did. That means at least a sentence for murder, possibly premeditated murder, and not culpable homicide. So now it needs to become an accident and he didn't know what he was doing which would get him Culpable Homicide with a faint possibility of not even going to jail.