Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[soozieqtips]

13.41 About the photograph that was shown to the court earlier. Aislinn Laing, our correspondent in court, says prosecutors have confirmed that June Steenkamp, Reeva's mother, had been warned they would show the picture:
“She wanted him to see it, to face it,” one said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...728656/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial-live.html

 

[Duchy]

He didn't lie and I don't think Nel is even implying it. OP said he doesn't know what a zombie stopper is. He used the phrase once and then might have forgotten about saying it. He may have thought Nel was asking about an actual object called a zombie stopper. OP is the one who offered to have the video played so he could better answer the question. Don't see how someone who is lying or obfuscating would do that.

It cannot be. How can it be? That OP was not aware that this video has been around for ages and in the public domain? I put it to you. It cannot be.:thud:

 

[Gryffindor]

So did the state get to play the video for the judge or not?

Yes they did Minor. And Nel showing Reeva's head wound for the gallery to see.

 

[Val1]

I'm just not convinced OP shot RS on purpose. What the Prosecutor is trying to drag out in minutia explanation only took probably less than 5-20 seconds. OP is on his stumps, jumping out of bed in a waking stupor, grabs his gun. Shoots.... pow! pow! pow! pow! The rest and in a state of shock, OP quite possibly does not remember except as it came back in flashes of memory. The Prosecutor is asking for specific details of time. OP accepts responsibility for what he did. It's the degree he must be held accountable which is in question.

Now, this is the main reason I refuse to have a gun in my house. That and I'd most likely use it on myself when I'm in one of those deep black funks to which I'm prone.

bbm - I believe you may have missed the memo, OP is now claiming that he woke up, RS asked if he was having trouble sleeping to which he replied in the affirmative, goes and brings the 2 fans further into the bedroom but didn't unplug them, closes the sliding doors and blackout curtains but sees RS's jeans on the floor and picks them up and goes to cover the led light on his wall unit something or other, then hears the bathroom window sliding all the way open... then he freaks out, gets his gun, whispers to RS to call the police and then heads on down to confront "intruders" that he had no intention to shoot to kill, with his black talon bullets. If I missed anything, sorry, but there were a lot of changes....

 

[steveml]

I DO agree that tampering, movement doesn't mean that none of it is safe. BUT,
The point I personally was making was it should NEVER have happened-end of. When that gun was touched without gloves it immediately put the case at risk, what if there had been another gun found. The investigation team's job IS to secure the scene and record evidence. Also, when something is moved it (by law) has to be recorded. That is BASIC common sense policing.
I am not defending OP by saying that, I am only interested in Justice being done. Those policeman risked that and the State know it as well as the defence!

I think OP needs to leave the arguing to future witnesses and Roux... He should be saying the bear minimum and truth in answering the questions....he still seems intent on blaming everyone else and will not help himself. And it is a bit like the first state witness not conceding, "Thou doth protest too much." IMO

This appears to be because the movement of items at the scene, and other anomalies have never really been addressed properly.
Defense have not really made such a big issue of this, but it looks like it's not going to go away.

It was quite obvious today that Nel was angling for OP to say the specific words that would enable conviction without the need for much direct evidence.

It makes me wonder, does Nel perhaps think the evidence to show OP killed Reeva knowing she was behind the door is not really that strong to stand up on it's own?

It's been quite a bizarre day today - I'm not really sure what to make of it.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Don't know if this will make sense to others. He seems not only to have a 'molly-coddled' personality but is lacking in common-sense and isn't as intelligent as he may first appear??

He is immature in his behaviour and statements at times and seems to need 'mothering' for all his bravado about wanting to be treated as able-bodied in the past, he is portraying a helpless lost little boy?

I'm waiting for him to breakdown and say "It's not my fault, I didn't mean to hurt anybody I was only doing what my Mum and the Solicitor said to do"....

He is doing an Oscar winning performance of the 'helpless disabled' man that I guess suits Roux.
Certainly not coming across as 'cold blooded killer'....
Lots more to come, Don't think it would take much to go either way at the moment. MOO:truce:

 

[BritsKate]

Good.

Without "bullies" to stop them, lying weasly punk murderers could get away with shooting their girlfriends any time they felt like it.

Roux reduced at least one witness to tears as well. A witness not on trial.

 

[minor4th]

Yes they did Minor. And Nel showing Reeva's head wound for the gallery to see.

Oh no! Seriously?!

Thanks for the warning. I really can understand why Nel would want to show that, as horrible as it is. It brings reality back to this trial.

 

[DebinGA]

bbm - I believe you may have missed the memo, OP is now claiming that he woke up, RS asked if he was having trouble sleeping to which he replied in the affirmative, goes and brings the 2 fans further into the bedroom but didn't unplug them, closes the sliding doors and blackout curtains but sees RS's jeans on the floor and picks them up and goes to cover the led light on his wall unit something or other, then hears the bathroom window sliding all the way open... then he freaks out, gets his gun, whispers to RS to call the police and then heads on down to confront "intruders" that he had no intention to shoot to kill, with his black talon bullets. If I missed anything, sorry, but there was a lot of changes....

OP also told RS to get down on the floor. Didn't mention RS saying a word after he heard the noise.

 

[Duchy]

I think it was just a sneaky way of introducing him firing guns and how at ease (or even elated) he is with them.

....and to show how vulnerable he is, what a good christian he is blah blah...:silly:

 

[soozieqtips]

bbm - I believe you may have missed the memo, OP is now claiming that he woke up, RS asked if he was having trouble sleeping to which he replied in the affirmative, goes and brings the 2 fans further into the bedroom but didn't unplug them, closes the sliding doors and blackout curtains but sees RS's jeans on the floor and picks them up and goes to cover the led light on his wall unit something or other, then hears the bathroom window sliding all the way open... then he freaks out, gets his gun, whispers to RS to call the police and then heads on down to confront "intruders" that he had no intention to shoot to kill, with his black talon bullets. If I missed anything, sorry, but there were a lot of changes....

... and hears door slam at some point. Too many changes to keep up with. Probably more changes tomorrow.

 

[Gryffindor]

Wonder how Nel will cross, in an attempt to establish "motive" which thus far, his CIC hasn't demonstrated.

 

[nastasya]

How did he lie?

He moved his lips.

 

[minor4th]

Don't know if this will make sense to others. He seems not only to have a 'molly-coddled' personality but is lacking in common-sense and isn't as intelligent as he may first appear??

He is immature in his behaviour and statements at times and seems to need 'mothering' for all his bravado about wanting to be treated as able-bodied in the past, he is portraying a helpless lost little boy?

I'm waiting for him to breakdown and say "It's not my fault, I didn't mean to hurt anybody I was only doing what my Mum and the Solicitor said to do"....

He is doing an Oscar winning performance of the 'helpless disabled' man that I guess suits Roux.
Certainly not coming across as 'cold blooded killer'....
Lots more to come, Don't think it would take much to go either way at the moment. MOO:truce:

It does make perfect sense. And I agree for the most part.

I think he is very far removed from the every day person on the street, and that kind of shows.

I also think he has a big hang up about his disability - some of this I got from reading his book - and I believe it's uncomfortable for him to admit to shortcomings and vulnerabilities related to his disability. He has spent his whole life trying to negate it.

 

[AlexUK]

Just heard on Oscar radio that Harry Nel & OP have encountered each other previously on the same firing range that was shown in court today lol

Didn't OP mutter something briefly about this in one of his rambling utterances?

 

[zwiebel]

8:00AM EST... trust me, I'm a Time Lord

And I've met Dr Who, Darth Vader and a Dalek.

Sorry, couldn't resist. And it is true, honest.

 

[04009margaret]

Right side is balcony side?
The side he apparently wasn't sleeping on because he'd switched sides due to his shoulder injury?

Also the side 2 ipads were found & his shaver/trimmer was plugged into for charging

 

[kaos]

bbm - I believe you may have missed the memo, OP is now claiming that he woke up, RS asked if he was having trouble sleeping to which he replied in the affirmative, goes and brings the 2 fans further into the bedroom but didn't unplug them, closes the sliding doors and blackout curtains but sees RS's jeans on the floor and picks them up and goes to cover the led light on his wall unit something or other, then hears the bathroom window sliding all the way open... then he freaks out, gets his gun, whispers to RS to call the police and then heads on down to confront "intruders" that he had no intention to shoot to kill, with his black talon bullets. If I missed anything, sorry, but there were a lot of changes....

I think Nel will come back to the 'conversation' as that's also different from the affidavit. We both went to bed and fell asleep is completely different from we were both in bed but awake.

 

[Viper]

Yes, but I'd be willing to bet if it was crucial to his case that it being pitch black would have meant he didn't have time to unlock the darned door so he had to shoot.

He's going to have to negate all escape options to justify him running towards the 'intruder' with a gun.

BIB. He tried that In the bail affidavit. But that's gone now, he took it out of the plea explanation.

 

[Gryffindor]

Oh no! Seriously?!

Thanks for the warning. I really can understand why Nel would want to show that, as horrible as it is. It brings reality back to this trial.

No worries. He intentionally showed it, which is why I think he wanted to show the watermelon shooting video. To purely have a preface for the head wound photo display.

Judge didn't object to photo. Was up for few mins, though she was prompt in requesting it be taken down asap.