Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[Forensics]

Yyyesss!!!! And why had she have taken the phone into this room???????????????

well, any number of possibilities..... everything from phoning for help if she believed she was in danger from Oscar.....to doing some messaging, surfing etc while taking a pee. Depends which version of events you want to believe.

 

[kaos]

Even if he gets around the accidental bit, surely the type of ammo he was using were never going to maim any intruder but were always going to kill them?

 

[soozieqtips]

Yyyesss!!!! And why had she have taken the phone into this room???????????????

BBM - To be fair, and remember I think OP is as guilty as the day is long, I've taken my phone into the bathroom with me using the flashlight to guide me rather than turning on the lights and waking anyone up. But since OP was already awake and busy on the balcony, not on the balcony, sort of on the balcony - then I can't see why Reeva wouldn't have switched on a light. And I can't really see her tiptoeing to the toilet in the dark and then deciding to settle down for a while and check her emails or watch youtube vids. It's not impossible, but it's quite unlikely at 3am.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Moving items that are not germaine to an investigation in order to take photos of things that are does not equal tampering with evidence. Crime scene investigators move things all the time. It is not a big deal when it has no bearing on the evidence that proves or disproves guilt.

Even the boo boo with the guy handling the gun without gloves didn't change anything in this particular case. The position of the fans has nothing to do with guilt in this case.

All this talk of "tampering and contamination" is a red herring put forth by the defense as a distraction. The position of the cricket bat, the position of cell phones, etc. have no real bearing on anything in this case.

Tomorrow will be interesting. I am sure Nels has a plan for drawing the information to support premeditation out of OP. Now that he has had today to see what he's dealing with. Nels has years of experience with witnesses. Both those that talk too much and not enough, I'm sure. I would think those who talk too much make it easier to get what you want as a Prosecutor.

 

[james83]

Buried by his original affidavit as expected

 

[04009margaret]

That tampering is unplugging a fan from an extension socket and that's why he's not guilty of murder?

Or that he accidentally shot four times at a door he never intended to shoot at but never denied shooting at because its obvious why he did? Or that he never had time to think about intending to shoot a door while all those thoughts he didn't have time to think were (obviously) being thought in someone else's head?

Perfect sense.

If I was Nel I would go over every phot that OP says shows tampering of evidence. Get OP's response on record before the court for every photo before Roux gets to his expert

 

[Viper]

The careless contractors who left the ladders that OP could have put in his garage.

The re-decorators, they unplugged one of the outside security sensors and put it on the ground.

And the "heavy wood" bedroom doors that were actually "brittle and get stuck because they expand with the humidity." OP actually said all three things about the bedroom doors.

OP loves to have his cake and eat it too! :smile:

 

[Viper]

Did everyone hear what OP said? OP said his legs were on the right side of the bed!

 

[BritsKate]

I'm just not convinced OP shot RS on purpose. What the Prosecutor is trying to drag out in minutia explanation only took probably less than 5-20 seconds. OP is on his stumps, jumping out of bed in a waking stupor, grabs his gun. Shoots.... pow! pow! pow! pow! The rest and in a state of shock, OP quite possibly does not remember except as it came back in flashes of memory. The Prosecutor is asking for specific details of time. OP accepts responsibility for what he did. It's the degree he must be held accountable which is in question.

Now, this is the main reason I refuse to have a gun in my house. That and I'd most likely use it on myself when I'm in one of those deep black funks to which I'm prone.

If the accused would actually answer the question posed to him, it may hurry things along a bit. Again, accepting responsibility would be accepting he shot her and caused her death - like pleading guilty to culpable homicide and sparing her family a trial. He admits to shooting her one moment then minimizes his actions in the same breath.

SA law does not have a mitigating clause for mistaken identity. SA law doesn't say its okay if you kill someone while you're in a stupor or because you're disabled (though less disabled than some I know and love) or because you didn't have time to think about the consequence of your actions despite clearly having time to be thinking about the level of crime in SA, as testified to.

SA law does state that if you foresee your actions resulting in someone's death and you proceed anyway it is still murder unless one can prove putative self-defence to counter requisite intent. So...can a reasonable person, with firearms training, assume shooting four black talon bullets into an enclosed space with no alternative exit could result in someone's death?

 

[04009margaret]

That was a disaster. Roux and OP not on the same page. Roux jumping up to try to redirect OP from his "accident" testimony but OP not getting it and continuing on. OP basically admitting his testimony is geared towards the "implications." This is why defense attorneys hate to put their clients on the stand. Roux must be dying.... MOO

I really feel sorry for Roux. He would have coached his client relentlessly, but he must have known this would happen because that's who OP is, it's unfortunate, but he's used to calling the shots (pardon the pun)

 

[cece5300]

This is horrible ..

.. believe it or not, I had sincerely hoped that he wasn't lying .. purely for Reeva's sake, and for the sake of her family and friends .. I really, really don't want his version to be false .. but it so clearly is. Poor Reeva, bless your heart.

Me too. I am pretty horrified. Rest in peace, Reeva. Praying for her family.

 

[soozieqtips]

Did everyone hear what OP said? OP said his legs were on the right side of the bed!

Right side is balcony side?
The side he apparently wasn't sleeping on because he'd switched sides due to his shoulder injury?

 

[clearskies1]

Buried by his original affidavit as expected

Yeah -- bail application not working for him now. MOO

 

[nastasya]

They're back....

N: Was it ever your version you went onto the balcony

O: In my bail statement it was said I went out on the balcony....at that time it was interpreted I went onto the balcony...I never said I went onto the balcony.

O: As I said I wasn't there when my statement was drawn up-if I could change....I'm sure that what they wrote there they interpreted as what I'd said....as I said, I never went onto the balcony to bring the fan in

The killer needed an excuse to explain why he didn't notice Reeva getting up and going to the bathroom.

The defense team wrote up the affidavit stating he went onto the balcony.

Now the killer is asking the court to believe he was in the small bedroom, did NOT hear Reeva get up out of bed to go to the bathroom, but instead heard the window open.

Which side of the bed did they claim he slept on, and why?

 

[Viper]

Right side is balcony side?
The side he apparently wasn't sleeping on because he'd switched sides due to his shoulder injury?

I know that, we all do. But that is what he said! Seriously.

 

[jassy writer]

There is no police tampering in the world that could account for a fan not being plugged in on an extension cord where the only other two point plug is occupied by a clipper recharger that OP admitted to using. No wonder Nel was happy about pinning that one down...

Love Nel's facial expressions, and his silent laughter! Also, that he is calling OP out on wanting to recite his version instead of answering questions. How weird that he just cannot say yes or no to a simple yes no question!

 

[04009margaret]

Contamination, disturbance and tampering. Said in testimony about 150 times today alone - exactly that phrase.

He turned into Roux overnight lol

 

[nastasya]

.. just goes to show what Reeva had to put up with in the relationship, doesn't it?

Reeva didn't have to put up with anything.

She choose to be with him.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Did everyone hear what OP said? OP said his legs were on the right side of the bed!

i have never worked this one out. is it left side as you look from the end of the bed, or left side as you are in the bed [face up/or face down]

would be much clearer if they referred to either the window side of the bed, or the bathroom side of the bed. imo

 

[kaos]

I never understood why the bedroom door had to be locked either but now realise it has to be locked because no escape route gives him justification to shoot.