Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[Sarahlou]

“@BBCAndrewH: In a rapid fire exchange, Nel got #OscarPistorius to admit he had "no reason" to shoot.”

 

[kaos]

Did anyone catch the last bit? What made OP cry this time?

He was saying he "didn't intend to shoot, didn't have time to think and he fired his weapon - it was an accident".

 

[steveml]

Let's see: the gun in Tasha's restaurant went off accidentally.

The 4 shots he fired through the door went off accidentally.

I do think the gun was discharged accidentally in Tasha's.

It's totally irresponsible and could have killed someone, but to suggest it was done purposely, you'd really have to be thinking along the lines that he intended to shoot his mate's foot.

For someone who doesn't want to attract media attention, shooting your mate in a family restaurant would not be the best move.

 

[Forensics]

Did anyone catch the last bit? What made OP cry this time?

He was answering a question regarding whether he shot the four bullets into the toilet accidentally or deliberately...he alternated between both statements, then told the judge he was confused and stated to get emotional.

 

[MeeBee]

I do think the gun was discharged accidentally in Tasha's.

It's totally irresponsible and could have killed someone, but to suggest it was done purposely, you'd really have to be thinking along the lines that he intended to shoot his mate's foot.

For someone who doesn't want to attract media attention, shooting your mate in a family restaurant would not be the best move.

I agree. It is really illogical to believe that he would pull the trigger knowing it was, "one up."

 

[Val1]

Did anyone catch the last bit? What made OP cry this time?

Because Nel confused OP with the questions about whether he remembers shooting the toilet door 4 times....

 

[Carol70]

So, im struggling to keep up today but from what I can gather, all we have learnt as fact today is that OP is negligent with guns?...and we all knew that anyway as a woman is dead because of it.

 

[Peliman]

The time from first to last shot is the most important thing for me, as this is most indicative as to whether Reeva had time to scream, and whether OP heard her.

Unfortunately we have not yet had a witness that has accurately described this.

For me it's the time from when the screams were first reported until she stopped screaming. So all he has to do now is say "I didn't hear her and you're convinced?"

 

[BritsKate]

Phillip de Wet@phillipdewet#OscarPistorius is making it damn hard to not form a premature opinion about his credibility. Or is that Gerrie Nel's fault?

https://twitter.com/phillipdewet

 

[Gryffindor]

On the messaging "I love you" front, addressed by Nel.

2/3 months into a relationship, there's no danger I'd say "I love you" to a partner after that short space of time, even if I felt that way.

Notably, Reeva hadn't said it to Oscar either, so unsure why Nel's unfairly picking Oscar up on it?

 

[steveml]

For me it's the time from when the screams were first reported until she stopped screaming. So all he has to do now is say "I didn't hear her and you're convinced?"

That would be useful, do we have those times?

 

[Trooper]

what I gathered was that Oscar likes, nay, insists upon interpreting the law or social cues, or directions from coppers in his own unviolable way. he, alone is the decider as to whether any of these situations will be considered..

and if things turn out bad, well. blame someone.

 

[sorrell skye]

I do think the gun was discharged accidentally in Tasha's.

It's totally irresponsible and could have killed someone, but to suggest it was done purposely, you'd really have to be thinking along the lines that he intended to shoot his mate's foot.

For someone who doesn't want to attract media attention, shooting your mate in a family restaurant would not be the best move.

Captain Mangena has testified that DF's Glock cannot accidentally discharge. The trigger must be pulled.

I believe Mangena.

I think OP was stupid and pulled the trigger on a loaded gun in a crowded restaurant.

 

[Trooper]

well. at least no green bucket, no dribbling snotty nosed howling..

not a bad morning, on those terms..

in all other terms it was a frightful thing for Oscar.

 

[kaos]

I wonder what Roux will do for damage limitation?

 

[Gryffindor]

Nel: Was it an accident? Did you mean to fire? Did you fire at the door? Do you remember shooting 4 shots? etc etc etc

He's attempting to get Oscar to use the word intend, meant to, purposely etc

Securing an "intent" charge at least. I think that's why Oscar's hedging and skirting round Nel's play on words and ambiguity.

 

[minor4th]

Nel: Was it an accident? Did you mean to fire? Did you fire at the door? Do you remember shooting 4 shots? etc etc etc

He's attempting to get Oscar to use the word intend, meant to, purposely etc

Securing an "intent" charge at least. I think that's why Oscar's hedging and skirting round Nel's play on words and ambiguity.

Oscar is clearly trying to avoid using the words "intend" and "deliberate" IMO

 

[sleuth-d-]

It could be Reeva took her iphone to the loo at 3am to read/a text in secret (not very nice thing to do in a relationship imo), but more likely, imo, is she took it as a torch to not have to bother putting on lights to passage and bathroom and/or because the toilet light was as is claimed, broken. Problem is I can only find 2 possibilities:

1. After speaking affectionately to OP Reeva had gone to the toilet without saying anything and without OP noticing, either taking her iphone to use as a torch or to read a text in secret, but didn't immediately call the police when OP yelled for her to do so from the passage, and even though OP, according to his testimony, waited at the end of the passage near the bathroom shouting out to Reeva and the intruder/s (and/or listening out for them) which should have given Reeva time to phone or at very least to answer him back.

2. The very moment OP whispered to Reeva to "get down and call the police" without OP noticing and without Reeva saying a word to OP or him noticing, she immediately got up, grabbed her phone and ran to the toilet in the few seconds it took OP to lean down and get his gun before going down the passage towards the bathroom, but that despite taking her phone with her she did not call the police as OP had asked, nor did she call out to OP even though she must have heard him coming down the passage getting closer and calling for her to do so.​

Maybe I am missing something, but neither makes any sense to me at all so maybe those who believe the prosecution was wrong to bring this case and/or for the murder charge have already a reasonable explanation for this because I haven't been able to think of one so far.

according to op version of events, rs must have been the person that opened the bathroom window. and the person that closed the toilet door as she entered - the second noise he said he heard that led him towards the toilet door...

according to op version of events, from this point he was screaming to intruders to get out of my house as he edged his way towards the bathroom.

it is plausible that rs may have wanted to keep quiet - to keep her whereabouts a secret from perceived intruder. she would not know where oscar thought intruders may have been.

but
she had her phone with her... is it plausible that she didn't use this to text/phone an alert to anyone. she had the time from op first screaming as he moved from the bedroom, to the corridor, to the bathroom corner.

.......
just trying to test op version of events

 

[Gryffindor]

Oscar is clearly trying to avoid using the words "intend" and "deliberate" IMO

Understandably so. If he was so fearful, believing it to be an intruder, he shot in auto pilot mode. I understand what Oscar's saying. I think Nel does too.

 

[steveml]

Captain Mangena has testified that the Glock cannot accidentally discharge. The trigger must be pulled.

I believe Mangena.

I think OP was stupid and pulled the trigger on a loaded gun in a crowded restaurant.

Yep, I'm not suggesting the gun went off on it's own.

I don't know the position of the gun when it was handed over, it was apparently under the table, and nobody's yet taken responsibility for how it was handled.

There are correct methods to follow when handling, passing and receiving a firearm.
It requires that all persons involved are following this procedure. The first rule broke was that the firearm was transferred under a table.