Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[nastasya]

I really can not see why people do not grasp what the sequence of events was in this case.

There are two arguments:

Scenario 1:

OP breaks open door with bat - terrified Reeva screams for her life - OP shoots her


Scenario 2:

OP kills Reeva - OP screams like a woman and a man - OP breaks door


Now here's where it gets interesting:

All 5 witnesses heard woman screaming + Gun shots + silence.

For OP's version to be true, he must have killed a woman, then immediately replicated the exact sounds of attacking a woman and shooting her, which coincidentally is exactly what he just did.

Does anybody not get the magnitude of that coincidence?

For OP's story to be true, he had to create a one-in-a-billion mortal accident by killing his girlfriend who got up to pee, then immediately and unintentionally recreate the exact sounds of that accident.

WTF?

Seriously?

Of course! Think about why this "coincidence" is what OP is asking the court to believe:

He claims to have re-created the exact sounds of the accident because he was forced to concoct a story that fit what happened, what the witnesses heard, AND makes him innocent.

His story HAD to replicate the evidence and sounds of the killing.

So that's why we have two scenarios that describe much of the same witness testimony and evidence.

The question is, what is more reasonable?

1. All witnesses were mistaken and OP replicated the sounds of a terrified woman being attacked and shot to death, or
2. OP shot and killed his girlfriend and made up a lame alibi to try to explain away the evidence?

 

[Freya1977]

That facts are that prior to bringing her dead body downstairs OP called a friend and not police. He called Netcare but didn't summon an ambulance and doesnt' remember what he told them.

He told security that everything was fine even though he just killed his girlfriend who was still alive in his affidavit but not breathing as of yesterday when he found her.

Garbage bags, rope, and tape was found on the first floor beside Reeva's body.

One hypothesis is that OP was planning on getting rid of the body.

Didn't the neighbor suggest getting those items to try to make a tourniquet? That's what he testified to.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Still a bit too loose I think. I am sure she showered and changed after her yoga. There was probably a mildly normal start to the evening...something happened some timing after Reeva ate that meal...between 11-1am. And we have a witness that heard raised voices like an argument around 2-3am.

I am just comparing it to the picture of the top on Lisa 's blog showing the bullet hole seeming to go right through the top
Looking at that and the one you posted it does look to me like it was back to front .

 

[Gavel Rash]

Question - yesterday in court when Nel raised the circumstantial evdience of an argument, a chase and a kill, why did he not when challenged by Roux that it was introduced not part of states case, the Merwe statement? That she heard voices like an argument?

 

[molly333]

People seem to be forgetting that it wasn't valentines Day the night before. It was the night of the 13th.

Oops. Yes, you're right. Were they planning to be together on Valentine's day, too?

 

[Val1]

Yes, great point.

Now, I know some people who believe his story might say, well what about his whole relationship with Sam and how come he was seemingly okay with her and, well we know she is still alive.

I will put it to you that he already had Sam "under control." That is the difference. Sam was young and obviously in love with him - she was still crying about their break-up. She did everything Oscar told her to. Also, and this is an important point - their relationship was mostly in the time before he became very famous.

Once he hit the "big leagues," he had to find the "perfect" girlfriend who was, in his eyes, up to his new "standard." He saw this in Reeva - beautiful, smart, charming, etc.. He could take her to events, take her to functions, and she would make him look good as well as carry on intelligent conversations and generally, make him look good.

But the problem was that he expected all of that and nothing less from Reeva. She had to put on a certain public image for him. And IMO, Reeva early on in their relationship felt this imbalance in their relationship.

This is not to say Sam was any less than Reeva, but there is an age difference, and so Reeva contained other qualities that can only be had with some age.

JMO.

Speaking of ST, I have never met her so can't verify this, but to me she sounded scared but defiant when giving her testimony. Did anyone else pick that up too? I know she was going to give a tell all interview but withdrew her comments through her lawyers for some reason.

 

[Whiteorchids]

People seem to be forgetting that it wasn't valentines Day the night before. It was the night of the 13th.

But at 12am it was VD. They were awake after 12am and a newly dating couple of 3 months are going to kiss and say Happy Valentines Day!!! Reeva was sweet, all her hugs and kisses text is very romantic. She strikes me as the type to make a big deal of that day. She had a gift wrapped for him downstairs. Most guys know how important this day is for their gals!!!

 

[Gavel Rash]

When I screen shot that distressing head shot, on the side of the computer screen image where other stills of the prosecutions armory...I think anyway...
It's probs going to be hard to see but the image top is the dented metal plate,
The next is corner tile area broken, the third is hard to see maybe anothe tile and the fourth the marks from the ricochet bullets on Reevas back.

Mmmm so wonder when well see these come to the fore....? 3 bangs and your out? 4 bangs and she's dead?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

When guests have stayed with us many times in the hot summer here in Cali I've heard the bathroom window slide open during the night and asked through the door if everything was ok? I didn't start shooting through the door or even have a gun in my hand.

I'm not buying OP's story at all. I find it ludicrous and think he's had over a year to come up with these details. All his random accidentally firing of guns that he didn't pull the trigger. I'm not buying his BS. I think he is as cool and smooth as a cucumber on the outside and is a real hot head, high tempered, arrogant narcissist on the inside.

We should ask the intimidated SamT of OP's character properties. I bet, she would just use these words! (I am very sorry for her.)

 

[Gavel Rash]

But at 12am it was VD. They were awake after 12am and a newly dating couple of 3 months are going to kiss and say Happy Valentines Day!!! Reeva was sweet, all her hugs and kisses text is very romantic. She strikes me as the type to make a big deal of that day. She had a gift wrapped for him downstairs. Most guys know how important this day is for their gals!!!

Yep! Mr Narcissist brushed her yet agin for interfering with his busy eat sleep schedule, she was ruining his very important health program, annoying him, she may have even touched his neck again!!! Oh oh!

 

[steveml]

You sure ST that's with a pistol. Isn't it a sub-machine gun that once you press the trigger if you keep it pressed it just keeps firing? From all the videos I watched and what I have read with an automatic pistol, or maybe it's called a semi-automatic pistol, you still have to press the trigger again and again if you want it to fire more than once, the only difference is that it automatically loads a bullet in the chamber after each shot so there is no gap, and that's how you can do double-taps... but you still have to press the trigger for each shot.

No worries,

Yep, the pistol used in the shooting was a semi-automatic.

The mention of fully automatic was simply made in response to a post. We'd spoke about the pistol, and I received a reply suggesting how damaging these semi-auto's could be.
I agreed, and went on to explain that there are more damaging guns than this (this is how the reference to fully automatic was made).

The post was taken out of context by a forum member therefore it's not surprising it's caused a fair bit of confusion, and unfortunately I've had to explain this a number of times since.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

:smile:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Question - yesterday in court when Nel raised the circumstantial evdience of an argument, a chase and a kill, why did he not when challenged by Roux that it was introduced not part of states case, the Merwe statement? That she heard voices like an argument?

There had been no time to do that. We will see in about 1 hour...!

 

[shane13]

Speaking of ST, I have never met her so can't verify this, but to me she sounded scared but defiant when giving her testimony. Did anyone else pick that up too? I know she was going to give a tell all interview but withdrew her comments through her lawyers for some reason.

Sam Taylor has indeed been quite frightened for some time.
I know a family member...

But even w.o.this we know that ST was imminently about to have articles on her relationship with OP published in City Press IIRC.

Just before the first piece was to be printed, an atty for ST contacted CP and told them the deal was off and to never contact ST again.

I think the great fear has lifted; because a day or 2 after her testimony, I was surprised to see Sam and Mom, Trish in court to observe when they didn't have to be there.

One thing comes to mind--can you guess?

 

[Whiteorchids]

When I screen shot that distressing head shot, on the side of the computer screen image where other stills of the prosecutions armory...I think anyway...
It's probs going to be hard to see but the image top is the dented metal plate,
The next is corner tile area broken, the third is hard to see maybe anothe tile and the fourth the marks from the ricochet bullets on Reevas back.

Mmmm so wonder when well see these come to the fore....? 3 bangs and your out? 4 bangs and she's dead?

Gavel Rash do you have a link to all three photos? TIA

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Don't forget that Reeva also had to pick up her phone on the way that would have presumably been on the right hand side of the bed too (also unnoticed by OP)

That is a very good and valid point . I didn't think there could be any more areas of implausibility about his statement as it was such a long list already but you have proved me wrong here

 

[Gavel Rash]

Gavel Rash do you have a link to all three photos? TIA

Sorry, not a good cataloguer, definitely from Nels first cross day when he threw that into the public domain. I just took a few screen shots. :-/ Trying to not appear macabre here. You tube ENCA.

 

[steveml]

There is no such Glock pistol, probably not any pistol unless it is a one off novalty gun. I own a Glock 17 9mm, it holds 17 bullet cartridges. If it spit them out like that I would be out of ammo in about two seconds, and I would probably not even have hit Mr. Armed Intruder with the gun flailing around during that!

I'm really surprised at that, having the Glock 17 I thought you'd be aware that the Glock 18 is a fully automatic pistol?

 

[Estelle]

I know. Talking to his cousin on Valentine's Day? Playing on Ipads and telephones? Going to sleep? lol

It was Valentine's Day Eve and from what I remember they had not made plans to see each other on Valentine's Day. IIRC I think OP had a party go to that night with his mates - the one whom he was supposedly on the phone with who gave a statement for his bail application that he spoke to OP on the phone at 6.30pm but there has been no mention of that call.

Reeva was to give the speech at the school the next day (14th). Maybe OP would have invited her to the party but had not done so yet.

I have often thought that they could have already been in conflict and the night of the 13th was to be a make or break night for Reeva to see if they could resolve their differences but it seems that OP ignored and neglected her most of the night. IMO her Valentine's gift could have been a peace offering as OP had always got her to think it was always her fault. So she could have thought that this gift would cheer him up and show him that she loved him as the giving of a gift and cooking a meal for your loved one are two of the languages of love. If they did not make up that night, she could have thought that at least he would have photos of her and him in his possession to look at (sentimentally at least to remind him of her) in case he regretted his decision later.

If he had no appreciation of her gift and the meal she cooked and criticised them (as seems to be his usual opus moderandi), then she may have at last had the strength to call it off. But he was not having it as he liked to control and blame her for everything and would not let her go.

I am also open to believing that it was he who could have locked her in the toilet after telling her to go in there at gunpoint even threatening her that he was going to shoot her and pretend it was an intruder as he could not shoot her face to face.

I am also open to believing that he could have planned to take her body in his car to hide it so it could never be found and he thought he would get away with murder.

 

[wb180]

I'm surprised at that, having the Glock 17 I thought you'd be aware that the Glock 18 is a fully automatic pistol?

Yes there is (like I mention before) but Viper is right that Glock 18 isn't that widely available. Glocks are usually semi automatic. You can convert your Glock to full automatic as well but either way, you run out of ammo really quickly.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Chilling angle of bullet trajectory into the toilet door.