Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[HauntsForHope]

“Enraged by jealousy,” the story goes that Pistorius approached Van der Burgh and swore at him about his relationship with the woman.

Read more: http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2012/11/...r-clifton-shores-love-triangle/#ixzz2ycybcGRC

 

[minor4th]

erome Starkey @jeromestarkey · 12h ago
Overcome with emotion, or racking his brains for what to say? #Pistorius sat back in his chair & said zip, as Nel demanded if Reeva screamed

Kudos for Jerome Starkey, who at least showed some skepticism about OP's tear break.

I did say earlier that his emotion today seems more from stress than remorse or sadness.

 

[minor4th]

Pretty much.

http://www.ecr.co.za/post/oscar-pistorius-didnt-trust-police/

It does not seem likely that an unknown person would just fire a shot at him for no reason on the highway. I think this was another misperception by Oscar - someone was taking a picture or lighting a cigarette or something and Oscar, being paranoid, assumed it was someone shooting at him.

Or he just made it up or embellished something

 

[Patagonia]

Molly, not sure if your heard yesterday, but OP said after he closed curtains he saw the jeans on the floor and pick them up to cover LED light. Then of course he contradicted himself and said it was pitch black. So many versions hard to keep up with all of them!:jail::jail::jail:

He said that, I missed that part. OMG, this is getting ridiculous. Approaching Jodi Arias ridiculous :facepalm:

 

[IfIMay]

“Enraged by jealousy,” the story goes that Pistorius approached Van der Burgh and swore at him about his relationship with the woman.

Read more: http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2012/11/...r-clifton-shores-love-triangle/#ixzz2ycybcGRC

pardon me, :blushing:, but who or what is the Hawkes?

 

[molly333]

BIB. Absolutely not. IIRC her communications, social media postings, and text messaging all stopped about 10 o'clock. Weird for a young social butterfly like Reeva, very weird.

I think this is maybe another point solidly against him because if she had her phone [and it was found in the bathroom] and he was shouting about intruders, wouldn't she automatically call the police?

I would think so. But, maybe people aren't so quick to call police for help there.

 

[liesbeth]

pardon me, :blushing:, but who or what is the Hawkes?

The Hawks is an elite special investigations unit. They replaced the Scorpions. I'll see if I can find you a link.

Here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpions_(South_Africa)

 

[DebinGA]

It does not seem likely that an unknown person would just fire a shot at him for no reason on the highway. I think this was another misperception by Oscar - someone was taking a picture or lighting a cigarette or something and Oscar, being paranoid, assumed it was someone shooting at him.

Or he just made it up or embellished something

BBM
Nel pointed out that this event was certainly memorable, yet OP remembered nothing about who picked him up at the parking lot or how he came to get his car back home. Nothing at all.

 

[molly333]

OP works that he whispered/softly told Reeva to phone the police line in to his evidence often. Could a possible reason for this be that what actually unfolded that night was that before Reeva's horrific fate, an argument erupted and Reeva for whatever reason ended up in the toilet cubicle with her phone. For all OP knows, she could very well have phoned the police for her own safety, after all she did say herself that OP scared her sometimes. So maybe OP brought that he told Reeva to call the police in to his initial statements/evidence in case investigators found that Reeva had indeed phoned them. This way he is covered and it would back up his version.

This is really interesting and a possible motive for shooting her through the door-- to stop her from calling police.

Hadn't he already had one run in with police over domestic violence? I'm not sure about that but I think so.

 

[molly333]

I think the point was to confirm that even in OP's mind, there was no reason to doubt whether the security system was working and on at the time he shot RS, even though OP iirc had implied in earlier testimony or statements that it might not have been(because at some time, apparently 3-4 years previously when the house had been painted, one of the sensors had been taken off the wall).

But, let's say he didn't think it was working. Is that any reason not to at least push the panic button before heading towards the bathroom?

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM
Nel pointed out that this event was certainly memorable, yet OP remembered nothing about who picked him up at the parking lot or how he came to get his car back home. Nothing at all.

That's right. He remembered nothing that could have been verified. As far as Nel was concerned, that was because "it didn't happen"...

 

[Carmelita]

Yes I do and truly believe that I will have no problem using it if needs be. We have been victim to a home invasion before( non violent) but the thought that a stranger stood over me while I slept makes me see red, nevermind the fact that they were within 2m of the bed where my young daughter slept. That in itself kills me. What if..what if..what if...

Please note thou that this does not consume us...we get on with life, go to work, drive around, live a happy and peaceful life however, we are ALWAYS aware of our safety, follow the rules, make sure we are protected by every means available and do absolutely nothing to invite harm our way.

So since you are from SA, (if you don't mind me asking) how heavy do you think the atmosphere of danger will weigh in the judges decision. I am going to assume that the judge is wealthy, lives in a gated community and has many precautions in her own home for her own safety.

I don't think she will view OP's hyper vigilance or paranoia as normal but do you think she will be able to relate to his fear for his own safety on some level.

 

[IfIMay]

The Hawks is an elite special investigations unit. They replaced the Scorpions. I'll see if I can find you a link.

Here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpions_(South_Africa)

Sounds kind of like our FBI or Secret Service... Interesting that they would get involved in this fracas between overgown boys. Was it because of the business man Van de Burgh?

Oscar has an interesting take on "defusing" a situation.

thank you for the info, liesbeth. :seeya:

 

[Whiteorchids]

Pretty much.

http://www.ecr.co.za/post/oscar-pistorius-didnt-trust-police/

Probably just more of his paranoia! Who in the heck takes a handgun on a boating get together with friends? I never heard of OP being stalked.

 

[DebinGA]

You can only understand OP's logic if you put yourself in his position. That has already been overlooked in the above example, as one scenario has very different implications than the other.

i.e. in the scenario where he asked for the police to be called, he was indoors, in darkness, on his stumps and facing what he believed to be an intruder.

BBM
“I can barely stand on my stumps, let alone wield a bat,” he says.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...in-reevas-unhappy-messages-live#ixzz2yd2k7w9J

OP can "barely stand" on his stumps but he's up and moving fans, picking up jeans to cover the LED light, closing doors/curtains, and earlier stumping down to the bathroom by request to brush his teeth? Sounds like he's very comfortable moving on his stumps to me; otherwise, he'd have very quickly put on his legs.
​

 

[K.T]

erome Starkey @jeromestarkey · 12h ago
Overcome with emotion, or racking his brains for what to say? #Pistorius sat back in his chair & said zip, as Nel demanded if Reeva screamed

Kudos for Jerome Starkey, who at least showed some skepticism about OP's tear break.

The screams, the whispers, the kick, his fatigue & the alarm - at least 5 slips or corrections in #Pistorius' evidence today. - @jeromestarkey

-and how strange that he was worried to leave the bedroom door and have his stumps "slip" the tiles outside, yet he eager to walking into danger, become an aggressor, and walk/shoot easily on the tiles of the bathroom. etc

Just a quick note, it was hilariously hypocritical that he was angered by millionaire his mid/late thirties Quintin van der Burgh and having something with his girlfriend, when he was at least 25 when he was dating sleeping with the same seventeen year old Taylor. :facepalm:

 

[G.bng]

Attachment from Sky News transcript showing Nel/OP door info.


Complete transcript link

I was thrilled to find these transcripts the first few days until I realized that, at least the 4 I copied and pasted into google docs, were missing bits and often changing whole phrases. Reading the linked one I have noticed a lot is missing there to so do you know if anyone has corrected versions?

 

[Val1]

I heard a lawyer suggest that Nel intentionally carried over until next week as Roux is not allowed to speak to OP whilst he is still under cross examination.

Hmm, iirc, the defense team talked to OP about the zombie/brains video before it was allowed to be shown. Also, what's to stop the defense team from talking to OP through his family, since OP is not kept in a secure facility where any comings and goings are recorded?

 

[Rumpole]

Can someone explain the bit about the alarm and switching it off and OP saying he made a mistake about what he said? Maybe I'm too tired to follow this!

I can explain from memory... no links 'n stuff ok? Nel asked a question (of sorts) along the lines of "in your veeeeersion, meester peeestorius... somebody must have switched off the alarm?" To which Oscar replied something like " I switched off the alarm before I went downstairs to open the door"

In the ensuing back and forth Nel brow-beat OP into saying he did not actually have a memory of doing that, but the remote is on his keyring, it is a "conditioned reflex"(my words) to pick up the keys and click the remote off. He knows he switched the alarm off because he always does that when exiting his bedroom AND because the alarm did not go off that night, so he he "must have"

Nel with his usual feined outrage accused OP of lying... saying he switched it off, but now saying something else.

I assume Nel is NOT an imbecile.. but some of his inability to understand makes you wonder.


While on the alarms, and Nel being thick. I have known all along that OP refered to alarm sensors being removed back in 2010 when house was painted. That is the reason WHY he suspected some MIGHT have been removed during the renovations around the time of the incident. I have always known there was an earlier paint job on the house and then another occasion of renovations. Nel is being thick when he says it was not mentioned before.
The point about the sensors that Nel can not get (and OP has not explained well) is that they can be taken off the wall, but still be functioning wherever they are stored, and so no "fault" will show preventing the system being activated. THAT is what OP was concerned about.

Generally its Nel's questions that give rise to confusion.

It may be a bit snarky, but next time Nel pouts and says "Meeeester Peeestorius, you are not LISTENING to the question" OP should reply "M'Lady, Mr Nel is not listening to my answers, and he is second guessing what silly face he can pull and pretend outrage he can claim"

 

[Harmony 2]

Please start moving over to the new thread and be prepared for this one to close in 10 minutes.

Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community