Trial Discussion Thread #25 - 14.04.14, Day 22

[aa9511]

Yes, when the camera is on them the sister looks as though she is muttering under her breath, over and over. The brother is doing it too, but not as clearly. I wonder if they are saying prayers throughout the hearings.

Or maybe something like "Just tell the truth, Oscar, just tell the truth" (of course I'm sure they think Oscar's intruder story is the truth.

They probably think he is veering from "the truth" b/c he's nervous or confused or emotional.

But actually he sounds like he's lying because he is lying.

 

[ShadyLady]

I completely missed today's trial....now I have to listen and catch up with everyone!!!

errrrrrrrrr......

 

[aoibhinn]

Yes, when the camera is on them the sister looks as though she is muttering under her breath, over and over. The brother is doing it too, but not as clearly. I wonder if they are saying prayers throughout the hearings.

I noticed that also and came to the same conclusion. I feel very sorry for them.

 

[Madeleine74]

That sounds dreadful, it must have been terrifying. I'm glad to hear you were uninjured.

Your report on your memory of the event is what would be expected (in the absence of a head injury or other extremely painful injury which would have drawn on your focus). Additionally, you have strong sensory associations with the event - smell, sound, vision.

More surreal than terrifying as it happened so fast and so out of the blue. My car was in the middle of the pack and I was hit on 3 sides and my car was spun around. I remember thinking as it was occurring, "oh God, my parents will never get over this if I die." Fortunately no one died in that accident and I don't think anyone was seriously injured. I'm sure I was in some shock but I was very lucky.

Anyway, back to the real subject here: OP. I'll give him a pass for not remembering every single second of that night, but if he's lying or sidestepping questions that's a different matter. I do not think it reasonable that he thought an intruder came into his home through the 2nd story bathroom window and went into the loo, where said intruder locked him/herself in AND that he was in any danger at all. Unless he was worried this intruder would use up all his toilet paper and waste a lot of water flushing the toilet.

 

[BritsKate]

How is OP doing on the stand? I realize that's a very open ended question, but I haven't been watching or keeping up.

Is he coming across as truthful?

I'll preface this by saying I believe he's guilty of intentional murder and others who don't will likely have a different view.

He comes across as sincere and honest IF one ignores him saying he didn't have time to think while he catalogues all the thoughts that ran through his head; changing his testimony sometimes literally mid-sentence - like he whispered to Reeva, spoke softly to Reeva, yelled at Reeva, whispered softly to Reeva, screamed at Reeva to call the police - but never told her why to call the police; didn't see Reeva at all to seeing Reeva's legs in bed under a duvet that the police moved but the police couldn't have moved it because jeans he admits to dropping were on the duvet so the duvet had to have been on the floor and Reeva's legs couldn't have been under it...oh, and if we accept that by never intending to shoot anyone he didn't just throw his defence of intending to shoot someone to save he and Reeva's lives under the bus.

Confused yet? Welcome to our world!

 

[Madeleine74]

Thanks BritsKate! Sounds like word salad from Oscar.

 

[patCee]

Or maybe something like "Just tell the truth, Oscar, just tell the truth" (of course I'm sure they think Oscar's intruder story is the truth.

They probably think he is veering from "the truth" b/c he's nervous or confused or emotional.

But actually he sounds like he's lying because he is lying.

It's a bit strange, they both stare directly across at him, quietly muttering. Telepathy or mind transfer of positive thoughts, willing him to stay calm. :shush:

Yes they must be suffering badly too.

 

[TipDog]

As to remembering or not remembering the minutia of traumatic events, everyone is different, some people block it out some people relive it on a daily basis. The human mind has a labyrinth of options, conscious and unconscious.

This is certainly true. But when telling your narrative, assuming it's the truth which is what OP so desperately wants the court to believe so that he isn't incarcerated, your details shouldn't change. I.E. - OP should be able to remember whether he whispered or spoke aloud in a soft tone to RS, especially since he's been over that detail numerous times. No matter how much his mind may have blocked out, he's been asked to focus on those details, slowly, with mindfulness. It simply does not fly in the face of logic that he cannot stick to which form of communication he used as the two are not the same. But because he's lying in an effort to prove he did try to communicate with Reeva before heading off to shoot her in cold blood, he isn't focused on this HUGE discrepancy and mistake in his testimony (IMO anyway). And this is just one example.

 

[katydid23]

Thank you. I remember exactly the last conversation I had with my daughter before she went out and didn't come home again. I remember it still, 14 years after !!

:hug: :rose:

 

[BritsKate]

Thanks BritsKate! Sounds like word salad from Oscar.

Indeed. He's also implied or outright stated every State's witness is either mistaken, in collusion, lying, inept, corrupt, etc. Even the Dr. who tried to save Reeva's life - who testified he'd seen a light on at Oscar's house - is lying and seemed to have no clue what he was doing. Heroic Oscar was already doing everything the Doctor suggested. In fact, at one point, Oscar had to go running, screaming at the Doctor to save her...because the Doctor stepped outside. The only one to testify to this was Oscar. Another witness and the Doc himself never testified to him leaving or Oscar's subsequent screams at him to save her.

 

[TipDog]

I'll preface this by saying I believe he's guilty of intentional murder and others who don't will likely have a different view.

He comes across as sincere and honest IF one ignores him saying he didn't have time to think while he catalogues all the thoughts that ran through his head; changing his testimony sometimes literally mid-sentence - like he whispered to Reeva, spoke softly to Reeva, yelled at Reeva, whispered softly to Reeva, screamed at Reeva to call the police - but never told her why to call the police; didn't see Reeva at all to seeing Reeva's legs in bed under a duvet that the police moved but the police couldn't have moved it because jeans he admits to dropping were on the duvet so the duvet had to have been on the floor and Reeva's legs couldn't have been under it...oh, and if we accept that by never intending to shoot anyone he didn't just throw his defence of intending to shoot someone to save he and Reeva's lives under the bus.

Confused yet? Welcome to our world!

This x1,000,000,000!

Honestly, I'm very confused and keep going back to listen to the archived video testimony because I can't keep up with the many nuances in OP's version where he's clearly gone off script and is lying. (I say this from my own perch, though. I'm certainly no expert. But luckily for OP, he isn't being tried in the USA and I'm not on the jury.)

 

[weeeva]

BIB

Yes. In fact, if OP is telling the truth and saw RS' legs under the duvet, that would have been the exact last place/position he'd remember her to be in. And if she's not on the floor, on the balcony or behind the curtains, then he'd remember her under the duvet and check the duvet. I can't remember his sequencing of how he looked for her, but not remembering if the duvet was on or off the bed suggests that he didn't look to find RS where he last (supposedly) saw her.

As for Nel, we all should remember that he really is doing his job. In the US, he'd be swapping objections with the DT repeatedly but SA is clearly different. Personally, I kind of prefer their method. They don't coddle the "innocent until proven guilty." If you are innocent, the facts will support that. And at this time, I don't believe they do. Of course, I'm not the judge...

Only time will tell.

Of course he is only doing his job, but do you really think that in a state of panic a persons mind is going to react in the same way as a person not in a panic. I can't understand why people don't see that. As I said earlier we are all different.

 

[DebinGA]

OP said today he'd had a scream test done where he now lives, presumably not where he killed Reeva. Huh?

 

[anagrammy]

This scenario I simply don’t see as being plausible. Are you suggesting Oscar shot her through the door, peeked in through a bullet hole, or bashed the door in with a cricket bat and then took dead aim at her head? Wouldn’t the trajectory of the bullets though the door (or lack thereof) bear witness to that scenario?

There is no way Reeva retreated to the bathroom after she was shot in the hip so logically the bullets all came while she was in the bathroom.

Yes, of course all the shots took place in the bathroom. I'm not suggesting otherwise. It has been established via the trajectory of the bullets through the door combined with the earwitnesses that the first bullet hit her in the hip, she staggered back falling on the magazine rack and then there was a pause before the three other shots during which PISTORIUS CHANGED HIS AIM.

I am in the camp that believes he could see her through the damage done to the door by the first shot and that's why the remaining three shots were so accurate. Others believe that he heard the sound of wood moving and shot at the sound of the magazine rack under her body. (That is contradicted by OP's testimony that he couldn't hear anything after the first shot).

I hope this clarifies for you what I meant.

 

[katydid23]

When I say "violence" I mean "violence" - between intimate partners or otherwise.

I agree that there can be abuse without violence, but I do not believe that "domestic violence" includes non-violent behaviors, even if they are abusive.

There does not have to eb a history of domestic violence, for someone to snap one night and fire a gun at their partner. It happens many times that way.


The one thing that OP seemed very paranoid about was someone calling the police and getting that out to the media. He was very protective about his media image. So what if he was angry at her, maybe she told him about her upcoming kiss in the reality show? They argue, he yells at her to "get out of my effin house!" Frightened, she locks herself in the toilet, and threatens to call the cops if he doesn't calm down. But she does not really dial them, she just wants to leave. He is so upset about the threat, he flips out, and grabs his gun...it goes sideways from there.

 

[aoibhinn]

OP said today he'd had a scream test done where he now lives, presumably not where he killed Reeva. Huh?

I did hear that, then. I'm not sure how much value it could possibly have ...

 

[BritsKate]

This x1,000,000,000!

Honestly, I'm very confused and keep going back to listen to the archived video testimony because I can't keep up with the many nuances in OP's version where he's clearly gone off script and is lying. (I say this from my own perch, though. I'm certainly no expert. But luckily for OP, he isn't being tried in the USA and I'm not on the jury.)

Seriously...I think I've given up on even trying to follow Oscar's testimony. There's just no rationale or logic and it's going to be different in about 2.3 seconds anyway.

They won't even let me near a jury, either side of the pond. :biggrin: I had him at guilty day one - because until there's a logical explanation as to why there was screaming heard by 5 people before Oscar states he fired his weapon (approximately 12 minutes) I will not budge from premeditated, intentional murder. And the defence's there was no screaming because Reeva was already dead to there was screaming but it was Oscar who sounds like a woman to the closest neighbours never hearing screaming to Oscar's 'I've never screamed like that before in my life' to there wasn't a woman screaming but there was a man crying just doesn't make any kind of sense.

MOO

 

[weeeva]

I think it is a huge STRETCH to be evoking DV type stuff.

The situation here is two independent people with their own lives and own homes. NOBODY was trapped in the classical DV scenario.

4 short lived Tiffs over 1700 texts is so insignificant as to be really a sign on desperation if that is ALL the State could find to indicate "violence" It is plain silly to draw any conclusion at all about Op being abusive even verbally, and no evidence at all of actual face to face verbal abuse, let alone physical violence.

Just as an aside: When people rush to label minor things such as this as "abuse" they detract from REAL instances of DV. People (usually women) who are battered and eventually some killed. DV is NOT an issue in this case and to evoke that is a travesty in itself.

Parsing out the word " loving" in my post... that I did only include in brackets is not significant to what I say.

Nel can make an issue of a word or a phrase "not making sense" but the Big Fat elephant of a thing that does NOT make sense is a boyfriend deciding to INTENTIONALLY shoot his girlfriend at 3:00 AM... It is Nel's job to explain WHY and HOW such an unlikely event occurred.

The state does not have to prove a motive Rumpole, does it?

 

[Madeleine74]

I greatly respect Juan Martinez (ADA of Maricopa County, Arizona) and his record, but I don't like his style of full on pit bull even with his own witnesses. It's like he isn't able to modulate his questioning and intensity and he goes straight for the jugular from the moment he stands up. He also occasionally gets caught in deep rat holes arguing a single point. But would I love to meet him and have a chance to share a meal or have a long chat? Yes, yes I would!

The same goes for Nel. Wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of him but I'd enjoy a conversation.

 

[DebinGA]

WC exhibit in court: http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/OPToiletDoorMedia.jpg

OP knew exactly the effect those hollow point bullets would have on a human body when he fired into that small space. He didn't need to think about it.