Trial Discussion Thread #28 - 14.04.17, Day 25

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
NBC reporter Jeff Rossen just reported that Roux is costing Oscar $5,000 per day!!! (U.S. $$$) I have to assume that is trial time only. Still, that is an enormous fee!

If that is his fee for trial time I can only imagine how much it has cost pre-trial!
 
NBC reporter Jeff Rossen just reported that Roux is costing Oscar $5,000 per day!!! (U.S. $$$) I have to assume that is trial time only. Still, that is an enormous fee!

If that is his fee for trial time I can only imagine how much it has cost pre-trial!

Don't forget how many people Roux has there with him. Several are attys.
Or are we too assume all those people have addn'l fees??
 
Don't forget how many people Roux has there with him. Several are attys.
Or are we too assume all those people have addn'l fees??

In the U.S., those that are associates/paralegals in his firm - their time would be included in that fee.

However, anyone who is not associated with his firm would have a separate fee arrangement. That is assuming there has not been some prior agreement stating otherwise. I'm not sure who the rest of those people are sitting at the defense table, so...
 
Don't forget how many people Roux has there with him. Several are attys.

Or are we too assume all those people have addn'l fees??

Right. His defence costs roughly $10k daily. Other reports put Roux at $6k alone.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.
 
Roux quipped at Batman asking whether or not he had seen the YouTube video of that unscientific bat/gun sound demonstration; when he did that I had the impression that he was going to introduce it in to evidence. So in my mind Roux saw the YouTube video, liked it, and tasked Dixon to make a SA copy of it.

Much of Dixon's "evidence" LOL was produced recently. That seems odd to me given that they were about to begin the trial or the trial was underway when Dixon was still "creating" stuff. And it coincides IIRC with OP needing to sell the murder house.

I'm guessing that OP is out of money now. I guess it doesn't matter really, the appellate process won't cost nearly that much and he has family with money to support that.

I am still surprised that OP did not assess this situation and seek a plea with the state; I say that because I do believe that Roux told OP that his odds of an acquittal were very bad, and taking a shot at it would cost OP the fortune he had a massed. IMO this trial had to have cost $2M US.
 
Whoa I want to be in JC courtroom.Cheering,booing,drinking.:)





Does anyone know the Court customs in SA?

In movies one often sees the most private questions asked.
In this case, Nel made a point about asking OP if he dated other women who were Christians.

Was that his way of getting it on record that they were not physically intimate?

And in going thru what happened that last evening, night and early AM, and no mention of sex, does that mean we can be certain that that did not occur?

I only ask in re to the argument and the final outcome.
We specualted on this a year ago, But we've had a trial now.

Could they not yet have been physically intimate? Could Oscar have said it's Valentine's Day so let's go. And got insistent and then refused to let her leave for that hour wehen she said no?

Or has evidence been presented that they were phys. intimate?

Remember she had these long realtionshps, first one was what 7 years, then next was 4.5 years.

Anyway anyone know if they ask such questions now--when they might be very relevant to teh final shooting.
 
I can see where Nel's coming from, although Dixon never said it was stand-in for Oscar. I thought it was just a general observation at the time to show the difference between a standing person vs a kneeling person.

To be fair, it's not much more different than the curtain being held back to view OP's house in the witnesses photograph. That also wasn't a true representation

Both PT and DT use their own 'little tricks'.

With all due respect, there is a huge difference. Mrs Stipp was just a layman witness while this guy is an "expert". I have never seen anything like this in my life!
 
I only caught the last 45 minutes or so of Dixons testimony today. It was excruciating to watch. I had intended to pull it up on YouTube but I may not now that I am thinking about it. I started to read through some of the reporters tweets and that too looks horrible. Did anyone find his testimony today compelling or interesting in any real way? Please share with others like me that can't handle watching him for hours at a time.
 
In the U.S., those that are associates/paralegals in his firm - their time would be included in that fee.

However, anyone who is not associated with his firm would have a separate fee arrangement. That is assuming there has not been some prior agreement stating otherwise. I'm not sure who the rest of those people are sitting at the defense table, so...

Thanks.
Of course, Oldwage is there and he is a fairly well known atty. too.
I'm sure u r right and most are paralegals, though I thought he referred to the young guy once as an atty.

Anyway, big bucks.
I'd like to know what dubious witness Dixon got?
 
Thanks.
Of course, Oldwage is there and he is a fairly well known atty. too.
I'm sure u r right and most are paralegals, though I thought he referred to the young guy once as an atty.

Anyway, big bucks.
I'd like to know what dubious witness Dixon got?

BIB. I'm sure I read somewhere that he, like the other experts, charge a daily fee. It was not a ridiculous amount, somewhere between $1,300 - $1800 US per day. Of course in SA that is a huge sum. And Dixon apparently worked on his "projects" for an extended period of time. So if you just guess he worked 45 days that would be $67,500 US @ $1,500 per day. No wonder he doesn't mind peeing away his credibility, that's a nice check in SA! :floorlaugh:
 
With all due respect, there is a huge difference. Mrs Stipp was just a layman witness while this guy is an "expert". I have never seen anything like this in my life!

As mentioned yesterday, he wouldn't be my choice, however I wouldn't be too quick to write off Mr Dixon's testimony. The analysis regarding the sound wasn't that great, however what little there was at least attempted to provide Judge Masipa with a general idea. She either thinks it's useful or she doesn't.

The PT have their own witnesses who have not been able to positively identify cricket bat noises from gunshots, and although they had the opportunity to strengthen their case with a convincing suggestion of the noises the witnesses heard, they elected to provide nothing for Judge Masipa. I think the PT have missed a trick here.

It really was a shot to nothing by the DT, and they've nothing to lose by trying this.
 
I only caught the last 45 minutes or so of Dixons testimony today. It was excruciating to watch. I had intended to pull it up on YouTube but I may not now that I am thinking about it. I started to read through some of the reporters tweets and that too looks horrible. Did anyone find his testimony today compelling or interesting in any real way? Please share with others like me that can't handle watching him for hours at a time.

From just reading here, Dixon demolished OP's moving mag rack claim iirc. I think he also admitted the guy he'd chosen to play OP on stumps for his "Did Dr. Stipp really see a figure walking right to left in the bathroom?" test was quite a bit shorter than OP is on stumps. And rather than look from the higher height from which the Stipps were looking at OP's lighted bathroom, Dixon's test was done from ground level. Oh, and I think Nel used Dixon to disprove OP's claim that he'd found Reeva sitting on the floor.
 
BIB. I'm sure I read somewhere that he, like the other experts, charge a daily fee. It was not a ridiculous amount, somewhere between $1,300 - $1800 US per day. Of course in SA that is a huge sum. And Dixon apparently worked on his "projects" for an extended period of time. So if you just guess he worked 45 days that would be $67,500 US @ $1,500 per day. No wonder he doesn't mind peeing away his credibility, that's a nice check in SA! :floorlaugh:

Thanks.
I don't know if u had a chance to check posts upstream?

I did one where he described sound pulses as I have stated here for 2 months.

He described the differences between batshot and gunshot pulses. And then said their audio equipment can process and minimize those differences. [Or words to that effect.]

While it was clear to me from the beginning what his main purpose was--to try to claim that Reeva was reaching or touching the door handle when shot. So as to give OP's claim of shooting after hearing the door try to open or such. Much of what he said was just piss poor, obvious in intent, and I could go on, but no need.
 
As mentioned yesterday, he wouldn't be my choice, however I wouldn't be too quick to write off Mr Dixon's testimony. The analysis regarding the sound wasn't that great, however what little there was at least attempted to provide Judge Masipa with a general idea. She either thinks it's useful or she doesn't.

The PT have their own witnesses who have not been able to positively identify cricket bat noises from gunshots, and although they had the opportunity to strengthen their case with a convincing suggestion of the noises the witnesses heard, they elected to provide nothing for Judge Masipa. I think the PT have missed a trick here.

It really was a shot to nothing by the DT, and they've nothing to lose by trying this.

IMO Almost all of the experts have given testimony way beyond the scope of their expertise. Part of that is the attorneys asking them their opinions about things that are not part of the expertise - both Roux and Nel have done it while cross examining witnesses, and they have both gotten experts to make observations and give opinions that are really the province of fact witnesses or lay witnesses. It is baffling and also intriguing to me.

What many of the "guilty" crowd are seeing in Dixon, I was seeing in Vermuelen - astounded that an "expert" in materials (i.e., a geologist and chemist) would be doing a demonstration of body position in such a non-scientific and haphazard way and giving tool mark opinions without being certified in tool mark examination. There was nothing exact about his process at all. Same with Van Staden and the whole business with taking crime scene photos while others were mucking about with the evidence.

Even Mangena trotted into territory that was beyond his field when he started giving opinions about pathology.

This must be something that is common in South Africa -- and obviously it is great fodder for the opposing counsel on cross examination.

But I read a legal article the other day that might shed some light on this phenomenon. The SA judicial process was described as part adversarial and part inquiry ...meaning that information is presented to inform the judge as much as possible. I think this is why there are not so many rules of evidence and pre-trial challenges to experts and such; no hearsay objections, etc. Since it's a bench trial and no jury, the judge can sift through the evidence and give it the proper weight without being prejudiced.

With that in mind, it makes more sense that a witness might give testimony or do demonstrations that are not precise or exactly replicative of the night in question. The sound test wasn't meant to demonstrate that those sounds were exactly what witnesses heard on that night - the purpose was simply to inform the judge that a cricket bat hitting the door is very loud and could be interpreted as a gunshot. That's it. And for that purpose, the defense accomplished its goal through Dixon.

The judge has now at least heard a demonstration that provided enough information for her to put the cricket bat sounds in context with the witness testimony.
 
Right, the reliability of Dixon has really got me riled up with regards to the exterior photographs (which is the part of his cross exam I'm up to).

The fact he used a shorter person than Pistorius in the photo and the fact he failed to measure the distance from which he took the photograph can be (barely) put down to methodological ineptitude, but his observation regarding how objects appear from different heights is absolutely contrary to reality. An expert could not possibly believe and state as fact in open court what he just stated.

It is a scientific certainty that due to parallax foreground objects move further relative to the view of the observer than their background counterparts. In this instance the window ledge and head/torso of the Pistorius stand in respectively.

If you go up, you will experience that the ledge moves down more swiftly than the head/ torso. If you go down, then the ledge will move up more quickly.

Anyone can perform this test with two objects, the one behind the other - just move your head up and down. I just practised with a coffee cup and a screwdriver. The defence 'expert' witness should try it with a slice of humble pie and his p45.

Nobody unaware or incapable of deducing the basic laws of parallax should be employed as an expert in an experiment where parallax is the single most important variable. It beggars belief.
 
People about to testify in Court should avoid social media! But Dixon did not :D

Quote:
He wrote: 'Third day in court today. Let's see how much of my credibility, integrity and professional reputation is destroyed.
'It is difficult to get belief in those who will not listen because it is not what they want to hear. After that, beer!'

A picture of the message - apparently shown on a mobile phone screen - was posted on Twitter this morning.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aken-apart-Pistorius-trial.html#ixzz2z9bK3KUx
 
An interesting connection from a previous case involving Roger Dixon, Dup de Bruyn (Steenkamp family lawyer) and autopsy pathologist Gert Saayman :-

Link
 
Quote from the link:

<snipped> "the judge overseeing the case warned spectators watching the televised proceedings in an adjacent room for their "unruly" behavior.

Judge Thokozile Masipa said she had been made aware that people watching Pistorius' trial on television feeds in a courtroom next to the main trial room were shouting and cheering at times during the proceedings."

Hmm... Maybe I should watch all of Dixon's testimony, sounds like people enjoyed it a lot! :smile:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2014/04/17/pistorius-trial-steenkamp-murder/7813375/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
67
Guests online
1,591
Total visitors
1,658

Forum statistics

Threads
606,042
Messages
18,197,373
Members
233,715
Latest member
Ljenkins18
Back
Top