Trial Discussion Thread #29

[Cherwell]

Totally agree and just said the same thing on the previous page following on from Vipers earlier post.
IMO it shows he was thinking clearly and was not in a blind panic in fear of his life . Have said this before if I were in that position I would have peppered the whole of that door high and low until I had emptied the magazine .
The grouping of those shots just do not look like random panic stricken shots with the gun held with just one hand.
Although I thought The states Ballistics guy to be a good witness I do wish he had stressed this point a bit more unless of course I have missed something there.

Did I imagine it, or did OP say on the stand that, in his opinion, it wasn't a very good grouping of shots? Methought the lady did protest too much ...

 

[james83]

Did I imagine it, or did OP say on the stand that, in his opinion, it wasn't a very good grouping of shots? Methought the lady did protest too much ...

Nel asks if the good grouping of bullet holes close together is a coincidence. Pistorius says he doesn't think they're a good grouping.

 

[steveml]

Umm weren't you one of those who believed the gunshots came first? Once the gun came into play I don't think there was any time for RS to do anything beyond a last scream.

Yep, I still believe the gunshots came first.

To reach this conclusion I've had to go through probabilities of the cricket bat being used whilst Reeva was still alive, and probabilities that the cricket bat may have been used by Reeva in defense.

I'm not sure Nel will be suggesting the cricket bat was used for anything more than breaking down the door.
Many of the times we've seen the cricket bat in the trial it has been used specifically to try and determine if OP was on his prosthesis or stumps at that particular time.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Did I imagine it, or did OP say on the stand that, in his opinion, it wasn't a very good grouping of shots? Methought the lady did protest too much ...

If he did then just ......wow !!!
Not good grouping whilst shooting one handed in a state of panic ,in the dark whilst being unstable due to not wearing prosthetic 's ,
Ah yes I see exactly what he meant now he missed one !! Gotcha

 

[whiterum]

As long as Milady sees it...

Weird that just after OP's evidence one of the Judge's assessor's could only ask 'was the light in the toilet broken' unbelievable! I hope she doesn't just take the DT's word on this and has it well checked out since a bulb can blow pretty suddenly at anytime and especially after four bullets had been fired into that confined space.

 

[DebinGA]

Nel asks if the good grouping of bullet holes close together is a coincidence. Pistorius says he doesn't think they're a good grouping.

lol.. OP the egotist on display. Shows that his emotional antics don't prevent him from listening intently to every word.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Nel asks if the good grouping of bullet holes close together is a coincidence. Pistorius says he doesn't think they're a good grouping.

It is just unbelievable that OP would be prepared to say that when he hit poor Reeva 3out of 4 times through that door.

 

[shane13]

Did I imagine it, or did OP say on the stand that, in his opinion, it wasn't a very good grouping of shots? Methought the lady did protest too much ...

See my post last page on randomness.

I believe that Oscar again was trying to claim that his set of 4 shots was a random set, and that if he were aiming--like at a head figure in a shooting gallery--the 4 holes would be extremely close together as he likely is a great shot.

But of course, my post last page indicates the holes are precisely where they are because imo he saw her throughout.
Something I've written for a year now.

 

[molly333]

Yep, I still believe the gunshots came first.

To reach this conclusion I've had to go through probabilities of the cricket bat being used whilst Reeva was still alive, and probabilities that the cricket bat may have been used by Reeva in defense.

I'm not sure Nel will be suggesting the cricket bat was used for anything more than breaking down the door.
Many of the times we've seen the cricket bat in the trial it has been used specifically to try and determine if OP was on his prosthesis or stumps at that particular time.

From what I've seen, Nel seems to have ignored the first set of Stipps "gunshots." Have you seen him mention it?

Nel's version is that the 'gunshots' are at 3:17 [second set]. If he ignores the first set of 'shots,' he will have a problem.

Maybe it didn't occur to Nel that gun and bat sound alike, until he saw the defense case.

 

[Cherwell]

From what I've seen, Nel seems to have ignored the first set of Stipps "gunshots." Have you seen him mention it?

He will.

Nel's version is that the 'gunshots' are at 3:17 [second set]. If he ignores the first set of 'shots,' he will have a problem.

He won't.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Exactly, if he was 100% sure there was an intruder and 100% sure reeva was in the bed when he told her to phone the police, he would have 100% naturally believed that Reeva had escaped downstairs and would have gone to look for her, the fact that he stayed upstairs says it all .
It makes me laugh that he says he checked the bed, well who in the right mind would have stayed laying in the bed while all that was going on in the toilet?, further more he says he jumped up onto the bed with a cocked gun in his hand to check if she was there, WTF?.
Its so clearly made up, I just cant believe people have fallen for it, LOL.

:goodpost:

 

[Karmady]

That was always a little bit surprising to me until I looked at the house plans and saw that the bedroom and bathroom are are the rear of the property and the furthest point from the road where the security guard was patrolling .

It's still really surprising to me. Especially if there were hourly checks and there had been loud arguing going on for an hour earlier in the evening.
If the real estate listings are correct, the entire community is 88 acres (.14 of a mile) Not that big. And a lot of the lots were undeveloped at the time. You would think sound would carry a great deal. I live in a similarly sized neighborhood with houses fairly close together like those in the photos. I've posted before, I can hear my neighbor's alarm clock lol

Maybe they are trained to ignore domestic disputes :::shrug::::

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yep, I still believe the gunshots came first.

To reach this conclusion I've had to go through probabilities of the cricket bat being used whilst Reeva was still alive, and probabilities that the cricket bat may have been used by Reeva in defense.

I'm not sure Nel will be suggesting the cricket bat was used for anything more than breaking down the door.
Many of the times we've seen the cricket bat in the trial it has been used specifically to try and determine if OP was on his prosthesis or stumps at that particular time.

I have always thought the cricket bat came first as there was so much screaming according to ear witnesses. Whilst I am sure she would scream when shot the first/second time there would have been very little time for there to be continued screaming. I think he hit the door to frighten her and when she wouldn't stop screaming he collected his gun and fired. I appreciate there has been a comment from one of the expert witnesses about the shot coming before the door was split but what if the split was minimal until the shot had been fired. That panel would then break and OP would be able, after the murder, to prise the door panels apart.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I don't know why he didn't ask her. He should have asked. He made a lot of unfounded assumptions that night, obviously, or we wouldn't be here.

But, we can attribute all his actions to fear.

Why would we attribute all of his actions to FEAR?

He did not seem to be all that fearful. He never checked to see if his alarm system was working. For months he never checked. And he never pushed the pnic button, nor called security when he heard noises.

He didn't check to see that the ladders were removed. He didn't get the 1st floor window repaired. He slept with the balcony doors open.

None of the basic, proper steps were taken to prevent intruders in his home.

 

[jilly]

Weird that just after OP's evidence one of the Judge's assessor's could only ask 'was the light in the toilet broken' unbelievable! I hope she doesn't just take the DT's word on this and has it well checked out since a bulb can blow pretty suddenly at anytime and especially after four bullets had been fired into that confined space.

Another strange question from the assessor (a few days ago) was "did Reeva know how to work the remote alarm" or words to that effect. I thought that was strange. Oscar didn`t know.
I believe that Reeva was at the point of being totally consumed with protecting herself from Oscar`s rage and ran into the toilet and locked the door. It appeared to escalate very quickly and she probably didn`t even think to grab the remote.

 

[Viper]

Yep, I still believe the gunshots came first.

To reach this conclusion I've had to go through probabilities of the cricket bat being used whilst Reeva was still alive, and probabilities that the cricket bat may have been used by Reeva in defense.

I'm not sure Nel will be suggesting the cricket bat was used for anything more than breaking down the door.
Many of the times we've seen the cricket bat in the trial it has been used specifically to try and determine if OP was on his prosthesis or stumps at that particular time.

BIB. Below is the testimony about the kicking. Mr. Nel is going to state in closing that the kicking and bat strikes were not because OP wanted to break open the door. No, they were before the gunshots, before the murder, they were left because OP hit the door two times and kicked the door to scare an already terrified and trapped victim.

Vermuelen: That would also be very difficult to say, and I doubt one would be able to say that the kicking happened before or after the shots M'Lady.

Nel: Mr Roux put to you that the only reason why the accused would have kicked the door was to open it- remember that - get it open because it was locked.

Vermeulen: Yes ..

Nel: Could there be other reasons?

Vermeulen: I guess if we say other reasons, it might ...

Nel: Let us speculate, you're asked to speculate - could it have been to scare someone? Is it possible?

Vermeulen: If we speculate, it's possible.. (chuckle). We also cannot prove that that mark was caused during the unfortunate incident.

 

[DebinGA]

Another strange question from the assessor (a few days ago) was "did Reeva know how to work the remote alarm" or words to that effect. I thought that was strange. Oscar didn`t know.
I believe that Reeva was at the point of being totally consumed with protecting herself from Oscar`s rage and ran into the toilet and locked the door. It appeared to escalate very quickly and she probably didn`t even think to grab the remote.

Maybe the assessor thinks, as I do, that OP was preventing Reeva from leaving, i.e. had her trapped in the bedroom suite, before things escalated to her fleeing to the WC.

 

[molly333]

He will.



He won't.

But, what I'm wondering, is did Nel say anything about the first set of 'gunshots' in his case in chief?

I don't particularly care what he says in his closing arguments. At any rate, they will have to rely on evidence brought into court.

I didn't hear him mention the first 'gunshots' when he was giving the court his version. And, I am assuming he felt the bat could not be heard and happened after the gunshots.

 

[crasshopper]

Justed watched "Pistorius on Trial: Nowhere to run" on the ID channel with my 83 y.o. mother. During a recording of Oscar on the stand explaining that he realized it must have been Reeva he just shot in the bathroom after not finding her in the bedroom. My mother says emphatically" why wouldn't he think she ran downstairs and check there first."

lol, out of the mouth of babes.

 

[james83]

Another strange question from the assessor (a few days ago) was "did Reeva know how to work the remote alarm" or words to that effect. I thought that was strange. Oscar didn`t know.
I believe that Reeva was at the point of being totally consumed with protecting herself from Oscar`s rage and ran into the toilet and locked the door. It appeared to escalate very quickly and she probably didn`t even think to grab the remote.

IMO I noticed this to and my personal feeling on why she asked this was simply due to Oscars failure to check downstairs for Reeva after the shooting in his version.
If she didn't know how to use the alarm Oscar would have a reason to presume she was upstairs because the alarm had not gone off, the fact that she knew how to use the alarm means that she could have deactivated it before going downstairs.
Oscar shot himself in the foot by answering yes.