Trial Discussion Thread #32

[bessie]

A new thread is open for discussion of "Ear Witnesses".


Ear Witnesses - Part 1 - Burger, van der Merwe, Johnson - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[sleuth-d-]

clothes.
in answer to nel questioning about the inside out jeans, nel saying this was her hastily readying to leave [??]

op: "i don't understand why she would take off her jeans to put my clothes on to leave the house"

i still find it odd that she had a bag of her clothes by the bed, but was wearing his clothes, after earlier changing into her pyjamas.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

I don't understand your question. Winchester stopped making black talon ammo but replaced it with the Ranger SXT that is basically identical other than the color of the bullet.

I have no idea why OP chose black talon over its successor - maybe he thought they looked cooler or it was a matter of conspicuous consumption or bragging rights among his gun enthusiast buddies.

So this makes sense..it wasn't a loaded question lol!

 

[Lochlynsmom]

but does go to his personality!

 

[Viper]

Was there expert testimony about OP's gun only using hollow point bullets? If that's true, I wouldn't think Nel would have asked him the question.

I can't remember if Malenga testified about this or not - but that's true of parabellums and I know that Nel knows this.

Respectfully you are NOT right about this. Parabellum is just used to distinguish that cartridge from the 9mm Lugar. Open this link and you will see a standard 9mm cartridge, it is not a hollow point, and OPs gun is designed for this and any other 9mm cartridge:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum

Also, from all of the rambling not one link that I have seen identifies the other shooter's gun as being positively a semi automatic. To the contrary the link that I posted described a variant of that gun as being sold with the 3 round burst feature. So the argument goes on.

 

[Carmelita]

Food I get! But this ammo is to decimate a human being He is not shooting this at a range this is for personal use. This I cannot understand...sorry.
Granted I do not live where there is a gun culture. But everyone needs to answer to their actions but OP refuses.

Hi there,

You have not been with men on a range or private land I take it

Some people just like guns and it has been my personal experience when you get gun enthusiasts together especially at a private range the banter about fire power and accuracy is almost immediate.

 

[minor4th]

clothes.
in answer to nel questioning about the inside out jeans, nel saying this was her hastily readying to leave [??]

op: "i don't understand why she would take off her jeans to put my clothes on to leave the house"

i still find it odd that she had a bag of her clothes by the bed, but was wearing his clothes, after earlier changing into her pyjamas.

Oscar did pretty much obliterate Nel's attempted point on that one.

I think his clothes that she was wearing WERE her pajamas. That would also explain why her jeans were on the floor inside out - she had changed out of them to put on her sleep clothes.

 

[PPKik]

Food I get! But this ammo is to decimate a human being He is not shooting this at a range this is for personal use. This I cannot understand...sorry.
Granted I do not live where there is a gun culture. But everyone needs to answer to their actions but OP refuses.

I don't know where OP got Black Talon or why he used them, but as minor4th said, Winchester makes almost identical ammunition "Ranger SXT" (Same eXact Thing). It's not as though the brand or type of hollow point ammunition would have made a big difference, in my opinion.

Black Talon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[minor4th]

Food I get! But this ammo is to decimate a human being He is not shooting this at a range this is for personal use. This I cannot understand...sorry.
Granted I do not live where there is a gun culture. But everyone needs to answer to their actions but OP refuses.

Yes, this ammo and other hollow point ammunition is designed to incapacitate a human being. When you're using a weapon and selecting ammunition for self defense, the point is to have reliable stopping power against an intruder or attacker.

When you say this was his gun for "personal use" - I'm not sure what you mean if you're not talking about self defense.

 

[Viper]

I don't understand your question. Winchester stopped making black talon ammo but replaced it with the Ranger SXT that is basically identical other than the color of the bullet.

I have no idea why OP chose black talon over its successor - maybe he thought they looked cooler or it was a matter of conspicuous consumption or bragging rights among his gun enthusiast buddies.

No one shoots hollow point cartridges at the firing range. It would be viewed as stupid and people would wonder if you knew what you were doing! When I used to go on weekend I would unload my hollow points and take 100-150 rounds of standard cartridges and they would be gone in 30-45 minutes!

A hollow point round has a purpose - stop or kill an aggressor. A standard round could serve that purpose too, but to most handgun owners it is just for target practice.

 

[Val1]

Yeah, I just don't think that level of executive functioning is expected to take place in one's thought process while in the throes of a panic or terror (according to OP).

In the light of day, and far removed from the situation, it's quite easy to come up with a lot of rational alternatives and hypotheticals, but those really cannot be superimposed in hindsight on Oscar's alleged fearful state of mind at the moment.

bbm - Yet that is exactly what OP kept doing during both his direct and cross and expects the judge to take that as the truth of what happened, even after Nel kept asking him over and over exactly what OP recalled and not what he had reconstructed(which is not the same as one's memory).

 

[Carmelita]

Hollow points are designed to do the most internal damage and the least external damage. Meaning that the hope it that a hollow point with fragment and ricochet in the body and not exit the body and harm an innocent bystander.

 

[aa9511]

Did OP really say he didn't know if Reeva knew the security code to his alarm system?

Because she was at his house alone that afternoon from about 13:00. Does this mean he left his house that morning without switching the alarm system on?

Yes he said that.

Just another of his lies. I guess he thought he had to lie about that to ensure that, in his story, there was "no way" she could've gone downstairs in the middle of the night to get something to eat. And he had to say lie about her not eating anything because in his story she was upstairs in bed since 9 or 10. He had to lie about her being in bed in order to hide the truth that they were both up. He had to lie about them both being up because he had to have the room dark. He had to have the room dark in order to not see her........................................................
Etc. etc. etc. etc.......................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

It's no wonder he's getting confused with his lies.

 

[PPKik]

I have not seen this question addressed though I am sure it must have been. I have not been able to find any reference to this anywhere:

Was OP asked by the police, reporters, Roux, Nel, or anyone, why he didn't call the police when he heard the noise coming from the sliding window/ bathroom/ toilet area?

What did he answer, if asked?

 

[whiterum]

clothes.
in answer to nel questioning about the inside out jeans, nel saying this was her hastily readying to leave [??]

op: "i don't understand why she would take off her jeans to put my clothes on to leave the house"

i still find it odd that she had a bag of her clothes by the bed, but was wearing his clothes, after earlier changing into her pyjamas.

As someone posted earlier, she could have been leaving in a hurry sitting on the bed pulling up her jeans over the shorts and in the process he could have in a rage grabbed them and pulled them off her legs resulting in them being thrown on the floor inside out.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

clothes.
in answer to nel questioning about the inside out jeans, nel saying this was her hastily readying to leave [??]

op: "i don't understand why she would take off her jeans to put my clothes on to leave the house"

i still find it odd that she had a bag of her clothes by the bed, but was wearing his clothes, after earlier changing into her pyjamas.

BBM

Really? Did OP answer with these words? Then he once more had betrayed himself. Good to know!

 

[DebinGA]

So in the gun range video Nel showed, OP obliterated that watermelon using a regular bullet? Whoa.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Is everybody just pretending that OP didn't abandon his self-defense case at the end of his cross-examination?

No, and can I say your interventions have saved me many times from time outs. Without going into great detail I think that it's worth mentioning that this case is presented differently then most of us are used to. I find it refreshing and look forward to the closing.

 

[Val1]

I probably worded it poorly in a previous post. It was one of the assessor's only questions. This is what was said:

Q: Could Reeva Steenkamp activate and reactivate the alarm?
Pistorius: I’m not sure if she knew how to … but she could if she had the remote.
http://oneherald.com.au/you-intended-to-kill-her/

Obviously, we don't know if she had the remote, or even where it was kept, as that was never asked.

All I recall from the exchange with Nel and OP, is that it was on a keychain that OP had said was on his media unit iirc, now whether that's the same keychain that he would have had his car keys on and therefore normally kept with him, or whether he had a separate one for just in the bedroom to lock up with at night? I would think he would have something with him to activate it for when he left the house though...

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Hi there,

You have not been with men on a range or private land I take it

Some people just like guns and it has been my personal experience when you get gun enthusiasts together especially at a private range the banter about fire power and accuracy is almost immediate.

Yes, I have. Explain to me where gun laws are no longer applicable in the home?