Trial Discussion Thread #35 - 14.05.08 Day 28

[crasshopper]

Good evening all. Many thanks again for the transcriptions and insights, I've just finished reading through the thread. Seems I didn't miss too much. I'll be able to follow live tomorrow!

A few posts that I've picked up on ....



There's a link here that gives some insight. It's at that particular time of the month the problem occurs and normally only lasts for a few days. What the anesthesiologist implied was meaningless without knowing what stage of her cycle Reeva was experiencing. Further reading at the link:

http://www.fitsugar.com/What-Causes-Digestive-Issues-During-Menstrual-Period-10285114

I hope that's not inappropriate or TMI. It's biology, so hopefully OK to mention.


<snipped>

.

Thank you for that!

I came up short.

 

[TorisMom003]

I have just joined this forum and I was hesitant to make a contribution as the Mr Levines' of the world (Levine's) always in background.:banghead:

:welcome:

Please feel free to join in and post more! Scroll on past a post that bothers you if you want to. Doing that sometimes saves my sanity. The majority of us can read "typonese" and don't give two hoots about proper grammar. Again, Welcome!

 

[steveml]

I'm more inclined to think that Reeva may have had a few mouthfuls of some food during the late evening. There wasn't any point for OP to say the time of the meal was earlier than previously thought unless there was a modicum of truth in it. It doesn't make sense to purposely make your case harder to believe, especially if you're lying. He could have said they ate later and the court would be none the wiser.

We don't know if the white substance discovered within the stomach contents was chicken or something else - cottage cheese is a possibility. This is pure speculation of course, as even the postmortem couldn't determine this.

I also think the lady assessor is exploring this possibility, hence the question regarding Reeva's knowledge of using the remote alarm fob.

 

[BritsKate]

I agree.
I wonder if the Myers have contacted the prosecution with information regarding certain aspects of the evidence that they have heard ( several other people seem to have ) and OP has got to hear about it . Otherwise I can't see why he would suddenly feel the need to say anything to the Myers.Totally inappropriate .
If there has not been anything new then his behaviour is even more disturbing I can't believe OP has this sort of terrible attitude towards Reeva's very close friends , if he really loved and missed Reeva he would not behave like this IMO
I would not be at all surprised if we don't hear some new evidence about the state of their relationship.

RBBM
Undoubtedly. They're all on the witness list. They identified Reeva in the morgue and they were privy to the inner workings of Oscar and Reeva's relationship. They've spoken to the media, here's a bit of what Cecil has said (and the last link is to a beautiful, moving letter written by Gina):

"He kept pestering her, phoning and phoning and phoning her. Oscar was hasty and impatient and very moody &#8211; that's my impression of him."She told me he pushed her a bit into a corner. She felt caged in. I told her I would talk to him. I told him not to force himself on her. Back off.
"He agreed, but his face showed me what he was thinking: 'Oh, this guy is talking nonsense'."

Was he ever worried about Reeva and Oscar?

&#8220;My answer to that is &#8216;no comment&#8217;, and that&#8217;s probably enough of an answer. There&#8217;s a dark side to him. And all we&#8217;re left with now is a huge emptiness.&#8221;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...as-told-to-back-off-from-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

http://www.marieclairvoyant.com/ent...st-friend-gina-myers-writes-her-a-final-email

 

[DebinGA]

I have just joined this forum and I was hesitant to make a contribution as the Mr Levines' of the world (Levine's) always in background.:banghead:

Welcome! Glad you're here. :seeya:
Now, who is Mr. Levine?

 

[patCee]

I have just joined this forum and I was hesitant to make a contribution as the Mr Levines' of the world (Levine's) always in background.:banghead:

:Welcome1:

There's plenty of support on here so don't let the b*****s, b*****'s, b*****s', grind yer dahn.

 

[soozieqtips]

I have just joined this forum and I was hesitant to make a contribution as the Mr Levines' of the world (Levine's) always in background.:banghead:

Hi there and :welcome:

Don't be hesitant about contributing. This isn't a grammar forum, and everyone's post are easy to understand.

So feel free to jump right in and discuss :smile:

 

[DebinGA]

In case anyone is interested, I found the name of OP's psychologist by Googling what I heard the social worker say:
Lore Hartzenberg

Without looking, I bet Lore is female.

 

[Giles]

I absolutely agree but on this note, just a little something I find so very sad is that, even through Oscar, we've learned so very little of the woman who was supposedly the love of his life. We know he got her birthday wrong, we know about the jealousy issues, we know she forgot to close the balcony doors and he wouldn't have shot her had she said something behind that door. Normally, its SOP for a defence to 'dehumanise' a victim but this defence has claimed they loved one another so one could presume it would be prudent to maybe tell us a bit about the woman he loved? Why he loved her? What she was like? I feel like I got to know Reeva better in a minute of Mike N's testimony than in 5 days of Oscar on the stand.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

I'm still catching up on today's thread and I'm a few pages back. I just wanted to thank you for this post BritsKate. Well put!

When Mike N testified about the moment he met Reeva it brought a lump to my throat and it brought a rare smile to June Steenkamp's face.

 

[steveml]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27


Yes. I am saying there were more than 4 shots.
We have 4 shots in the bathroom door. We have 1 shot in the bedroom door.

4 + 1='s 5

5 is more than 4 isn't it?

Dr Stipp said he had trained in the army with assault rifles and 9 mm pistols.
Dr Stipp heard 2 SETS of gunshots. The other neighbors that testified were all in agreement that it was 2 sets of gunshots. The last set of gunshots were described as...
bang....bang,bang,bang.


Oscar says cricket bat. Oscar didn't mention that damaged metal plate in the bathroom. In my opinion, it is because hitting metal and wood are different sounds. What about the bullet hole in the bedroom door? He admits damaging the bedroom door by running into it on his way back to the bedroom. I guess he didn't notice the bullet hole. But, that's not Oscar's fault. That door probably shot itself. Doors in Oscar's house behave strangely.

That is my opinion.

Our thoughts about what happened that night are different and I respect your opinion.


I hope you have a wonderful day.

JMO

I could be mistaken, but I'm not aware that the hole in the door is of the correct size for a 9mm bullet.

I've not really looked into this too much though, as it doesn't seem to be a factor within the trial anymore. I was under the impression that it was of a size more akin to an air-rifle pellet.

 

[soozieqtips]

RBBM
Undoubtedly. They're all on the witness list. They identified Reeva in the morgue and they were privy to the inner workings of Oscar and Reeva's relationship. They've spoken to the media, here's a bit of what Cecil has said (and the last link is to a beautiful, moving letter written by Gina):





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...as-told-to-back-off-from-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

http://www.marieclairvoyant.com/ent...st-friend-gina-myers-writes-her-a-final-email

Thanks for the links, BritsKate. The letter from Gina was really touching and showed how close they were, and how much she misses her. It also shows what a kind and caring person Reeva was, just the type an abuser goes for.

 

[steveml]

Without looking, I bet Lore is female.

I think it's a shortened version of Eleonore, so it could well be.

 

[Feynman]

If boring old Wollie is correct about the ammo not being Black Talons but instead Ranger ammo, it's at least embarrassing for the PT. Black Talons are about 16% heavier than the Rangers (147 grain vs 127). IIRC, Saayman said "Black Talon or Ranger" ammo during his testimony, so the mistake, I would think, comes from Mangena. Didn't Mangena say he had conducted his tests with BT's, "which were hard to come by" or words to that effect? A bit of comedy there; Mangena must be smarting right about now.

Nel as I recall asked, with fiery indignation, "Who should we blame for the Black Talon ammunition that ripped through her?" OP responded "It's ammunition used for my type of firearm." OP's response was greeted with derision by some in this forum.

Wollie conceded the the two bullets have the same effect on the body (I think that's what he meant), but Roux I'm sure would like to contribute to the judge's thoughts "if the PT can't even get the ammo straight, then what else have they missed?"

The lighter Rangers may also mesh well with Wollie's argument that the PT has not properly accounted for possible deflection error in tracing the gunshots: A lighter bullet may make deflection more likely.

Wollie is boring I have to say, but the testimony tomorrow should be interesting, especially Nel's cross and Roux's re ex.

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know about misogyny, but I suspect that some of his supporters find him attractive. If he was as ugly as sin, it might be a different matter. I think we've seen this in plenty of other cases.

Objection your honor. :judge:

As the majority of us don't feel that OP is innocent of killing Reeva, it's a tad misleading to refer to us as supporters. We are at best, partial-supporters.

Can I also take this opportunity to say that my attraction has always remained towards members of the opposite sex. If I did turn, I still don't think he'd be my type.

Overruled, Mr steveml. :gavel:

That Pistorius has supporters is undeniable. I believe they are known as #Pistorians and it is to those people that I referred. Please show me where I described you, or any other poster here, as a supporter. :waiting:

 

[BritsKate]

It would be very interesting to know if that is likely. I have been hoping our resident attorney Minor4th would pronounce on this. The PT chose not to choose her for the trial and probably they had a reason why. I cannot think she could add much to the case and I really don't think they would entertain using her just to get at OP for his comment, unpleasant though it was.

Well, one reason for holding certain witnesses back would be that the State is precluded from introducing character evidence, until and unless, the defence opens the door for them to do so. But there are other, subtle rules pertaining to evidence in SA too.

It was she, David, and Cecil that identified Reeva at the morgue. She was living with the Myers and close to both Kim and Gina. All the Myers were concerned over the state of their relationship before Reeva's murder so I think they could add a fair bit - whether they will or not, of course, remains to be seen. But this could fall under hearsay rules and those are murky at best for me in a country I'm actually familiar with.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/psychologists-watch-pistorius-closely/

***Warning: Do not read further unless your bucket is at hand***

His own psychologist – Dr Lore Hartzenberg – is always on hand to comfort Pistorius after a particularly agonising time in the witness box.
During his anguished sobbing on the stand on Tuesday, she was part of the family group that led him away from the courtroom, where his tormented wailing could still be heard from the hallway.
Pistorius appears to be a very different person before and after a lunch break. It’s been suggested that this is when his psychologist counsels him back from breaking point.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Well, one reason for holding certain witnesses back would be that the State is precluded from introducing character evidence, until and unless, the defence opens the door for them to do so. But there are other, subtle rules pertaining to evidence in SA too.

It was she, David, and Cecil that identified Reeva at the morgue. She was living with the Myers and close to both Kim and Gina. All the Myers were concerned over the state of their relationship before Reeva's murder so I think they could add a fair bit - whether they will or not, of course, remains to be seen. But this could fall under hearsay rules and those are murky at best for me in a country I'm actually familiar with.

Isn't it on video record that Gina (after Reeva's death) said Reeva was happy with OP and she didn't think there were any problems between them. Not sure that would have been very helpful to the PT. I hope I am not mistaken here. I will see if I can find it on You Tube but many videos have been taken down.

 

[BritsKate]

Isn't it well known that this is not the only forum where the case against OP is being discussed? So then how is it known that Cherwell was referring to anyone here? After all, the word misogynist does mean the dislike, hate, etc of women. Cherwell was also referring to some women that behaved like misogynistic men towards Reeva. Now I have not seen any posts of that manner towards Reeva here on WS. However, I have seen those type of posts in other places out on the web. And the vast majority of those posts are the type that believe OP is innocent.

MOO

RBBM

And extremely denigrating to women - to include Desi, Samantha, Reeva, Kim, Gina, and even June.

And to be fair, I've seen a few questionable comments here about some of the above - not necessarily misogynistic in nature but not exactly what I personally consider victim friendly, either. In the end, each of those aforementioned women are dealing with a tremendous loss none of them had any control over. I'm certain each of them would welcome a full exoneration of Oscar, no questions asked, if it would bring Reeva back to them.

JMO

 

[aoibhinn]

In case anyone is interested, I found the name of OP's psychologist by Googling what I heard the social worker say:
Lore Hartzenberg

I think we're good to sleuth witnesses but I'm unsure about professionals involved with the defence.

Lore Hartzenberg's main field is educational psychology. She also works with children/adolescents, their related traumas, child molestation and, chiefly, cross-cultural issues.

I've found one publication:
http://books.google.ie/books/about/A_Cross_cultural_Counselling_Programme_f.html?id=jMqtngEACAAJ&redir_esc=y

There's also a research paper but it's old. Cross-cultural counselling is the focus of the study.

Odd choice for OP, I think.

 

[BritsKate]

Isn't it on video record that Gina (after Reeva's death) said Reeva was happy with OP and she didn't think there were any problems between them. Not sure that would have been very helpful to the PT. I hope I am not mistaken here. I will see if I can find it on You Tube but many videos have been taken down.

I don't know because I certainly haven't seen every interview. I did read this though:

Steenkamp’s so-called adopted family, the Myers, are on the witness list – including Cecil, Desi, Gina and Kim. Gina Myers can testify at length about several explosive arguments between the couple and concerns she had about the athlete’s temper and the intensity of their relationship.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/Witnesses