Trial Discussion Thread #39 - 14.05.14 Day 32

[jay-jay]

I don't see how his bail being revoked (the Dr said he was dangerous) and him being put into custody for the rest of the trial undermines 'justice'. It would seem to be the usual course of events. I understand you would not have liked my comment avout him being dragged off screaming but it had nothing to do with justice being served - just a personal wish for less kid gloves treatment.

If I thought he had a genuine mental disorder that influenced him at the time of the offence or one which had developed over the past year then I too would not want to see him 'dragged off' but I don't think he has or had so he should be treated the same as any other accused. Did you read the article that was posted here regarding the other double amputee languishing in jail awaiting trial? The black guy with no rich family behind him? Now to me, that's injustice when his situation is compared to Pistorius'.

Totally agree with you, espesh the BIB.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

It was pretty clear from Nels' reading of the law yesterday that the judge would have no choice but to order this. Roux's argument really didn't make all that much sense to me.

I would think the head of the evaluating team will be the one who decides exactly what is required for a proper evaluation to be performed. If it requires a portion of overnight observation of OP, I suspect a bed will be found.

There are certain psychiatric treatment programs nowadays in the U.S. that are conducted on an "intensive outpatient" basis. The patient attends all day long but does go home to sleep at night.

I do not know what type of outpatient hours would be required for a forensic eval. I do know that some of the tests are quite long, with a hundred or more questions and they take hours to complete.

Hopefully the evaluating team will get more accurate and more extensive information than Dr. Vorster got.

 

[ColonelMustard]

andrew harding ‏@BBCAndrewH 21h

Nel and Roux chatting, with smiles, at front of court now. All's fair in love and war… #OscarPistorius

LOL THAT WAS FROM YESTERDAY. Sorry I'm a bit excited.

I'm glad you brought it forward into this thread because it's important.

For the most part, it seems that all/most of the legal players and expert witnesses here have known each other and have worked with each other, in some cases many for years.

It's what they do. It's their jobs. They're able to separate business from personal. When this trial is over, they'll work together, again. Heck, if SA trials are regularly televised from now on, we may get to know some of these people better ourselves.

All that being said, if I were a naive defense client and saw my lawyer chatting away happily and yucking it up with the opposing side, I'd really be upset.

 

[james83]

David Dadic @DavidDadic · 2m
Also please stop with can OP act his way out of this.He can't! Its a team of doctors who have assessed 1000's of people.They won't be fooled

 

[sleuth-d-]

Is it possible that after a couple of meetings with the psychiatric team as an out patient that the team themselves request that he comes in as an in patient?

was thinking exactly the same.

and just because the court has said outpatient is preferrable, doesn't mean the doctors will agree at the point of, or during, assessment...

 

[G.bng]

This and other things that have happened are all signals to me that judge already knows what she is gonna do at the verdict. And it's not gonna be pretty for OP when the verdict comes.

Right now, she is just covering her bases, being really careful.

I cannot believe a judge of Masipa's calibre and reputation would act that way.

1. Judges are not permitted to know their verdict before all the evidence has been heard... this new turn being a case in point of hearing ALL the evidence.

2. A judge is a truth seeker and administrator of justice not a distributor of vengeance so Masipa has to be fair and equanimous and you can't be fair and equanimous without hearing all the evidence and the summing up of both State and defence cases

 

[LaLaw2000]

Now that you mention it...

Well, if OP can't have a gun he will draw one for himself!

 

[christee]

How interesting. It's a doodle. He looks like he might have some artistic talent.

But look at the rigidly controlled framing of it.....perfect straight lines. That's unusual, I think.

ETA: On all but one side. The 'free' side has something sharpish and ugly, breaking out...

Looks almost like an abstract face beside fabric or drapes.

 

[Trooper]

I was just about to ask whether it could mean Dr Vorster's testimony is thrown out. I think Judge Masipa also implied she wasn't happy about the length shortness of time it took to come up with her diagnosis.

what it means, and Nel is utterly on track to apply for this, . it isn't Oscar and his paid flunkeys who get to say what his mental condition is without a challenge. It is incumbent on the prosecutor to challenge this witness, and there is no other way of doing it. Oscar isn't going to VOLUNTEER for a panel of state appointed Psychologists and Psychiatrists is he?? hell no. not on this earth.

so it has to be a court ordered procedure.

its not an unknown thing for a well and truly qualified medical expert like Vorster to leave out bits, miss bits, be persuaded by the client, especially if that client pays the bill. . its no bad thing for Vorster ,either. . as a professional she would , if not exactly welcome it, be at ease with the process..

 

[ColonelMustard]

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 1m
#OscarTrial Arnold has now walked over to join the conversation. There is a laugh from Roux and Oscar. All okay? BB

Roux: "Yeah, we got screwed but don't worry it'll only be outpatient."

(Not.)

 

[jay-jay]

David Dadic @DavidDadic · 2m
Also please stop with can OP act his way out of this.He can't! Its a team of doctors who have assessed 1000's of people.They won't be fooled

Thing is though, it's not like OP is having to try and show he has some kind of condition like being a psychopath or something .. we're only talking about GAD here, and I would think that would be quite easy for him to trick them into believing he does actually have that. OP is an absolute master of manipulation, I can see him getting through this test with flying colours.

 

[Trooper]

don't forget, Judge Masipa's 2 Assistants would have fully agreed with the decision , otherwise Judge Masipa would have said this clearly, that there had been dispute within the Assessors role, but she didn't say it. She would only put it on the record if there had been.

 

[wb180]

I cannot believe a judge of Masipa's calibre and reputation would act that way.

1. Judges are not permitted to know their verdict before all the evidence has been heard... this new turn being a case in point of hearing ALL the evidence.

2. A judge is a truth seeker and administrator of justice not a distributor of vengeance so Masipa has to be fair and equanimous and you can't be fair and equanimous without hearing all the evidence and the summing up of both State and defence cases

I am not saying that she will give a verdict now but I know which side she is leaning.

 

[kaos]

Are we thinking a July/August date for the proceedings to resume?

 

[G.bng]

Did you see the look on his face when Milady made that negative remark about his performance on the stand? Ooooooooh....nasty!

Well he shouldn't be upset at all because her comment shows her real concerns that OP had done so badly in testimony that he had put himself at an unfair or unnecessary disadvantage just as Nel showed his concerns about OP's testimony having hurt him unnecessarily during arguments for the application. He should thank them both.

 

[ColonelMustard]

andrew harding ‏@BBCAndrewH 1m
Roux and #OscarPistorius confer earnestly again. I wish i could lip read.

I'm honestly surprised that no news outlet hired a lip reader for this... or one of those little things from spy stores that pick up conversation 50 feet away.

 

[sleuth-d-]

How interesting. It's a doodle. He looks like he might have some artistic talent.

But look at the rigidly controlled framing of it.....perfect straight lines. That's unusual, I think.

ETA: On all but one side. The 'free' side has something sharpish and ugly, breaking out...

hope he hands those sketches in for the assessment...

 

[Gryffindor]

David Dadic RT: In conclusion I do think he will be an outpatient as the Judge pretty much said she wants it that way. Despite how much Nel may object.

 

[james83]

Was it me or did Masipa express some scepticism about the short length of time Vorster had spent with Oscar?.

 

[Trooper]

Was it me or did Masipa express some scepticism about the short length of time Vorster had spent with Oscar?.

Indeed she did.