Trial Discussion Thread #39 - 14.05.14 Day 32

[sleuth-d-]

At 4:50 in the video the psychologist talks about the 30 day observation and why it is inpatient, not outpatient:

http://youtu.be/yNvODipYQ6w

OP not staying the nights is very unusual, she has never heard of it happening.

re: outpatient

roux wants it.

judge said it was 'preferable'

nel said 'it will be investigated'.

hopefully the expert doctors will have the final say.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

There's no doubt OP has difficulty taking responsibility for his actions. That's a separate issue, though, I think.

I don't believe it is...I wonder whether there would have even been a trial if he had taken responsibility that night?

 

[lithgow1]

If you don't think that Nel has made a mental health defense more viable I will not try to convince you that he has.

Yes he has but he must also have calculated the risk of the strategy. As others have mentioned, the state psychiatrist has observed OP during his entire time on the stand and would arguably have as much insight into how his mind works as Ms Meryl would have picked up in two brief consultations. I'm sure Nel would have consulted with him regarding this move.

And yes it could backfire on the state but it could also make OP's position much worse depending on the diagnosis plus he will be questioned repeatedly and intensely about the events of that night with much more leeway for the line of questioning than Nel could pursue and whatever info comes from that will be at the state's disposal and can be used when the proceedings resume. Pretty sure I am right about the last bit of the last sentence (heard or read it somewhere) but I may have heard what I wanted to.

 

[jay-jay]

I'm thinking about this psych eval. It would be very hard to fool a team of doctors over the course of 30 days. OPs preparation by Roux then must be to just answer the questions honestly, but don't say you intended to kill anyone. That's it. Whatever underlying issue(s) OP has is going to come out from this evaluation. Given that Dr. V has already said that OP represents a danger, I wonder how long it will be before they tell OP it is probably best that he does the remainder of his evaluation sleeping at the facility? :smile:

And, since this is related to the crime of murder, I can just imagine OP being dissected by the doctors asking him hundreds of questions using his testimony, or information provided by the prosecution team. Oh that will not be pleasant for OP, no...

I don't think the assessment will involve OP having to answer questions about the night he killed Reeva though, that's not my understanding about the way a person is psychologically assessed. I thought it would be more like a combination of psychometric testing, putting forward various scenarios to see how he would react in certain situations, then maybe going into various things throughout his life prior to the event, that sort of thing. As Nel would say, "Am I right?" :crazy:

 

[MeeBee]

I don't believe it is...I wonder whether there would have even been a trial if he had taken responsibility that night?

Yeah, I think his inability to own up and his symptoms of PTSD are still two separate things.

 

[jay-jay]

Just a quick addition to my last post .. I've seen it mentioned on a few things I've read since yesterday (I think they were online media articles linked to on here, don't think anyone has actually said it in their posts) that the 30 day referral is for 'treatment' .. I'm not aware that it's actually the case that this will be treatment, my understanding is that it is purely an assessment. Am I right?

 

[Giles]

re: outpatient

roux wants it.

judge said it was 'preferable'

nel said 'it will be investigated'.

hopefully the expert doctors will have the final say.

Yes, I hope that OP is not seen to be getting preferential treatment in this regard. I'd like to know why the Judge thought it would be preferable.

 

[atthelake]

According to you. He thought he was defending himself and Reeva from serious harm or death, according to him.

Either way, I think he is showing signs of PTSD

Do you think that the (1) Dr. missed such a dx, or think (2) that the *signs* you are seeing which he exibited don't elevate it to a condition within DSMV? or (3) she saw, and considered and discounted mentioning to the court or (4) alternative you have??

 

[Giles]

Just a quick addition to my last post .. I've seen it mentioned on a few things I've read since yesterday (I think they were online media articles linked to on here, don't think anyone has actually said it in their posts) that the 30 day referral is for 'treatment' .. I'm not aware that it's actually the case that this will be treatment, my understanding is that it is purely an assessment. Am I right?

Yes, it's an assessment or evaluation.

 

[jay-jay]

To quote Mandy Rice-Davies, 'Well he would, wouldn't he'*. Having said that none of us know if he really feels guilt or if he is saying what he knows sounds 'right' but since I don't know I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

* famous quote from the Profumo scandal in 1960s England. As an American you may not know it but it was this 'party girl's' response to a claim by defense counsel that one of the high-up establishment figures involved had denied he had ever met her.

Thanks for that .. I'm quite often using that phrase and I had no idea it had such an interesting history!

 

[weeeva]

This is my understanding of how this will play out...if something incriminating is found in the evaluation (that doesn't work in the defence's favour, like malingering) the State will only be able to present it at such time as to rebut the defence. I doubt Nel will be allowed to call Oscar a liar full on, regardless, but he'd very likely be able to present an expert to testify to malingering or deceit being a core feature of something Oscar is diagnosed with. To this end, Nel may also put up his own character witnesses since he was precluded from doing so in his CIC.

I believe his version is already worthless and what's more, I believe his defence team thinks so too and that's why Vorster was brought in to begin with. Even IF GAD is established, it has to be to such a degree that it impacts Oscar so severely I don't think he could maintain everyday, normal life without exhibiting it to a great many people and without it severely impacting his life. Vorster pretty much said his disorder doesn't rise to such a severe level so I expect that either to be confirmed or such a diagnosis to be dismissed entirely.

JMO

If it is confirmed that OP does have GAD, there is evidence that it DOES impact his life severely. He killed someone because of it. You can't get more severe than that.
If he does have some sort of mental disorder, then it has ruined a lot of lives including his own.
Mental health problems can and do ruin lives.

 

[supernovaNic]

Emily Smith ‏@EmilySmithCNN 1h
Ever wonder about the notes #OscarPistorius takes during the #OscarTrial? Take a look - pic.twitter.com/QaJ3g9kGyT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnlEQEZIAAAP_q7.jpg

Re: Above
When I went to bed last night/this AM, I started thinking:

1. Where did the CNN reporter get this photo? Did she take it while the trial was on? Are people allowed to take photos while the trial is going? Like could a reporter pull out even just an iphone and take photos of what Oscar is doing?

2. Do you think Roux has cautioned Oscar to be careful what he doodles/draws/writes on his notepad because viewers in the benches could see it and even media?

3. I am under the impression that there is only one video feed and all the other channels, enca, wildabouttrial, channel4, etc. are using that feed to put on their website. Is that wrong? Is there a group of news agencies located somewhere in the courtroom with all their cameras set up? I haven't seen any. And, if so, then each of us are getting different views of the courtroom on our feeds depending upon which angle the videographers take?

4. Maybe the photo was taken from the video feed and it's just a still?

 

[sleuth-d-]

Yes, I hope that OP is not seen to be getting preferential treatment in this regard. I'd like to know why the Judge thought it would be preferable.

it didn't seem a sensible thing to say, imo, and she didn't qualify why she thought this way.

surely once the decision has been made to have the assessment, then the assessment should be conducted in the manner that leads to the most accurate outcome - imo, the doctors would know which of inpatient/outpatient is preferable, not the judge. the doctors should make the decision.

if there is no preference medically, then fair enough, but it does appear that there is, from a couple of previous posts here.

 

[fox1lady]

Thank you for that! Awesome information. I really like that Judge. At about 7:30 he really goes off on the DT for not establishing what their defense is. LOL!

Every interview I watch with this judge (who I do like) he has a dig or two at Judge Masipa... not feeling the love

 

[jay-jay]

I don't want to blow the margins, but YouTube has the Sept. 2, 2012 Paralympic 200m race where OP, the overwhelming favorite, lost the first professional race of his life to a 20 yo Brazilian. Instantly, he was no longer "the fastest man on no legs". Given the widening use of Cheetah blades and the rising number of much younger opponents, that race loss may have been a PTSD precipitating experience, especially after his bad loser claim the winner used illegally long blades. Between Sept. and Feb. 2013 there were a series of publicized, image-damaging episodes featuring OP, probably leading to serious loss of sponsors and "the hurdle" meeting regarding same on Feb. 13. I think OP may have killed Reeva in self-defense mode, believing she would tell arriving police/sympathetic friends/family about something he'd done that evening that would kill his reputation and ruin his future.

Could this hurdle have been something to do with the upcoming trial of his brother Carl? That trial was only about a month after that 'hurdle' message of Reeva's .. I'm wondering if OP was pissed off that it would further ruin his own reputation .. and it might also answer the thing about Reeva saying how she understood if he wanted to be with family that evening.

 

[MeeBee]

Re: Above
When I went to bed last night/this AM, I started thinking:

1. Where did the CNN reporter get this photo? Did she take it while the trial was on? Are people allowed to take photos while the trial is going? Like could a reporter pull out even just an iphone and take photos of what Oscar is doing?

2. Do you think Roux has cautioned Oscar to be careful what he doodles/draws/writes on his notepad because viewers in the benches could see it and even media?

3. I am under the impression that there is only one video feed and all the other channels, enca, wildabouttrial, channel4, etc. are using that feed to put on their website. Is that wrong? Is there a group of news agencies located somewhere in the courtroom with all their cameras set up? I haven't seen any. And, if so, then each of us are getting different views of the courtroom on our feeds depending upon which angle the videographers take?

4. Maybe the photo was taken from the video feed and it's just a still?

1. I don't think there's anything wrong with taking photos during the trial as long as it's not of witnesses that don't wish to be shown.

2. Nah.

3. I think there is one feed set up by the courtroom and the news stations broadcast it.

4. Maybe

 

[lithgow1]

I don't think the assessment will involve OP having to answer questions about the night he killed Reeva though, that's not my understanding about the way a person is psychologically assessed. I thought it would be more like a combination of psychometric testing, putting forward various scenarios to see how he would react in certain situations, then maybe going into various things throughout his life prior to the event, that sort of thing. As Nel would say, "Am I right?" :crazy:

I don't see how he can't be questioned about that night if the whole point is to assess his mental state after a witness said his GAD may be relevant to both verdict and sentencing. They would have to ask about it to get any insight into what he was (or wasn't) thinking. Pretty sure it will figure largely but that's just going by what I've heard/read. I'm sure over the next few days and post-Tuesday we'll find out more about what it will entail. Bear in mind how Nel kept stressing that Meryl's questioning and diagnosis was based only on OP's version and the state's version is significantly different so I think and hope there will also be questioning on it. Otherwise it seems a bit pointless don't you think?

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Then why did he?

To make sure there will be no appeals and I believe to dispel the diminished capacity angle in closing

 

[Viper]

I don't think the assessment will involve OP having to answer questions about the night he killed Reeva though, that's not my understanding about the way a person is psychologically assessed. I thought it would be more like a combination of psychometric testing, putting forward various scenarios to see how he would react in certain situations, then maybe going into various things throughout his life prior to the event, that sort of thing. As Nel would say, "Am I right?" :crazy:

BIB. I'm sorry to report, "No." :no: :smile:

Nel questioned Dr. V on whether or not she had attended court to hear OPs testimony, she said that she had not. Nel later asked her if she was aware of OPs numerous versions of what he says happened that night. Again she said that she was not. There was another reference to this, maybe two others. So it appears to me that the psych team will be provided with evidence from the trial, and or summaries from both the DT and the PT to use in their evaluation of OP.

This whole 30 day observation seems tailored for those that have confessed to committing murder (or some other serious crime) but want the court to consider some psychiatric issue and diminished capacity in their verdict and sentencing. So it makes perfect sense that the psych team would have the accused's evidence and the prosecution's evidence to use in testing and evaluating the accused.

 

[supernovaNic]

Here is a larger photo version of what Oscar was drawing :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnlEQEZIAAAP_q7.jpg:large