Trial Discussion Thread #40

[soozieqtips]

Vorster said he was being treated for anxiety and depression SINCE the murder.. not before.

that was part of her testimony and his. it was made quite clear that he wasn't being treated for any such of a thing PRE the murder of Reeva Steenkamp. and since this directive, and ppks question is in reference to Oscar not seeking treatment PRE his murderous morning, whatever treatment he is receiving now , since the killing is irrelevant TO the killing.

<modsnip>

And like you said, why would he seek treatment for a condition he denies he has and didn't know he had?

He wouldn't. It would be totally illogical.

 

[Trooper]

And like you said, why would he seek treatment for a condition he denies he has and didn't know he had?

He wouldn't. It would be totally illogical.

its an absurd hypothesis, sooz.. not only doesn't know he has it, but even after Vorster diagnosed him with it, he gets his defence attorney to refute the actual illness ,disorder, for the purpose of arguing against the sect 77 application.

So we could infer that Oscar not only didn't know he had this disorder, he certainly didn't seek treatment for it, and even after being diagnosed with it by his own expert witness, he denies he has it. One can only wonder how compliant he is with the treatment these last 8 DAYS of his current pharmaceutical regime.

 

[Magdalyn]

Footballers are not athletes. We are talking about athletes like OP. Especially paralympic ones.

Respectfully BBM:

I think this is one of those terms which definitions varies by the country in which it is spoken (like toilet! And biscuit!)

In the USA, an athlete is any person who participates and/or competes regularly in a sport. It's not specific to a particular sport. We very much consider soccer players, football players, basketball players, wrestlers, ice skaters, etc., athletes, the same as we consider those who focus on track, field, marathons as athletes.

 

[CriLondon]

While you're at it, you may want to compare OP to his siblings... his brother has the same type of stony expression whereas the sister is broken.

What I have noted is that his uncle has shown contempt towards Nel(at different stages, last during dr.V cross-exam) at least 5-6 times and at least twice to Judge Masipa.
I also believe that the camera zooming in to him during these little "smiles of contempt" is no coincidence either.

 

[Trooper]

Vorster did say that he is being treated for anxiety and depression. I believe it was part of OP's testimony as well.

so really, minor. what you meant to convey was that Oscar is being treated for anxiety, but only since May 8th 2014.. that was the bit you left out accidentally..

and you left out the part where he denies he has any such of a thing as anxiety disorder that may require further court appointed investigation.

 

[Interested Bystander]

For those of you who have time and new members/watchers. This is to repeat earlier posts that there are some interesting discussions of the OP case between learned professionals on the following link.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHTN50mKYmmeg1-AHBURUsg/videos

Wow! how did you do that? Thanks anyway.:star2:

LOL I can assure you I did nothing special. Judge Chris Greenland (the white haired judge in the videos) uploads to You Tube under his name so one can easily find all his discussions. If you find any of his videos, under the video screen, alongside his name, you will see how many videos he has made - just click on that.

 

[Trooper]

Vorster did say that he is being treated for anxiety and depression. I believe it was part of OP's testimony as well.

I corrected my post where I had said that it was part of Oscars testimony that he was being treated for anxiety and depression. He said no such of a thing.. he did say he felt anxious and depressed.

The reason why you and I can be sure of that is, he didn't consult with Vorster until May 7th and 8th 2014.. he had already given his evidence and been cross examined by Nel.. he saw Vorster , as , I presume, a patient and a client precisely because his evidence and cross examination was a disaster.

 

[Trooper]

Yes, but the other post said he had never, ever sought treatment for any disorder, and that is incorrect. The depression didn't happen til after he killed Reeva and he had no idea he had GAD but I'm not sure what kind of treatment he would have sought for that in any event - he was managing his life before the shooting.

BBM. . what is incorrect about this ?? are you privy to his doctors appointments?? he , .and we are talking about this trial, he did not state in his bail aff, or his trial aff, that he was undergoing treatment for any disorder, any defect, psychiatrically speaking or phsychologically speaking at all. none. he claimed no treatment of any sort in that area. none. nada. zip. zero.


so what is incorrect about the post?? which was mine, btw.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

High performance track and field athletes are well known for vomiting prior and after a race/event due to many reasons, anxiety being one. I've personally witnessed this on several occasions while at race events.

http://m.runnersworld.com/race-training/puking-primer

Just food for thought. :waitasec:

 

[Viper]

Yes, but the other post said he had never, ever sought treatment for any disorder, and that is incorrect.

The depression didn't happen til after he killed Reeva and he had no idea he had GAD but I'm not sure what kind of treatment he would have sought for that in any event - he was managing his life before the shooting.

It seems that you are trying to say that it is possible that OP had sought psychiatric help for some issue prior to the murder. But that is just not realistic, because if he had Dr. V would have discussed that in her report.

 

[minor4th]

I corrected my post where I had said that it was part of Oscars testimony that he was being treated for anxiety and depression. He said no such of a thing.. he did say he felt anxious and depressed.

The reason why you and I can be sure of that is, he didn't consult with Vorster until May 7th and 8th 2014.. he had already given his evidence and been cross examined by Nel.. he saw Vorster , as , I presume, a patient and a client precisely because his evidence and cross examination was a disaster.

I am pretty sure he was being treated for depression and anxiety before he met Dr Vorster. The reason I think he testified about it is because I thought he said he was medicated and maybe even listed his medications. I remember thinking ...well that explains why he looks and acts like a zombie sometimes in court.

I could be wrong but that's me recollection and I'm not going back to listen and confirm

Besides, I'm not really sure how this is relevant to anything going on now ?

 

[Trooper]

It seems that you are trying to say that it is possible that OP had sought psychiatric help for some issue prior to the murder. But that is just not realistic, because if he had Dr. V would have discussed that in her report.

well to say that would be embellishing the evidence, in a rather major way, I would think , Viper.. it would be roaming in the area of hope and perhaps, and veering off from what is, and what's been claimed.

 

[DILLIGAF]

If OP is denied preferential treatment for the psyche assessment (i.e moved to the front of the cue), this case could be in for a very long adjournment.

If Mannie Witz is correct, the assessment cannot be done on an outpatient basis. No wonder Roux fought the decision so vigorously.

I cannot see OP coping with a long stay in a mental institution. He may just flip out when the order is finalised on Tuesday.

 

[Trooper]

I am pretty sure he was being treated for depression and anxiety before he met Dr Vorster. The reason I think he testified about it is because I thought he said he was medicated and maybe even listed his medications. I remember thinking ...well that explains why he looks and acts like a zombie sometimes in court.

I could be wrong but that's me recollection and I'm not going back to listen and confirm

Besides, I'm not really sure how this is relevant to anything going on now ?

I again repeat.. that he said he felt depressed and anxious. This as you must be aware, <modsnip> is a very long way from being diagnosed and treated by a medical professional for this complaint. <modsnip> I can only assure you, he was not under any medical regime for anxiety or depression or lefthanded blue vein dystrophy or any illness you care to name PRE the murder of Reeva Steenkamp.

 

[CriLondon]

In the UK you don't need service or credit to make a 999 call from a mobile.

True , i'm in UK too.
However , in such circumstance , my phone displays "attempt to make an emergency call?"

 

[Hatfield]

Respectfully BBM:

I think this is one of those terms which definitions varies by the country in which it is spoken (like toilet! And biscuit!)

In the USA, an athlete is any person who participates and/or competes regularly in a sport. It's not specific to a particular sport. We very much consider soccer players, football players, basketball players, wrestlers, ice skaters, etc., athletes, the same as we consider those who focus on track, field, marathons as athletes.

I had to smile as my passed Grandma from New York used to refer to the toilet as "TURLET".

I miss her new york accent and new york terms

 

[Trooper]

Uh ....she did discuss it.

:seeya: I'm outta here. One post and the pile-on is already forming.

Vorsters discussion centred on the fact, that he didn't seek treatment, and that no one else had picked it up.


This is merely playing with words..

 

[DebinGA]

High performance track and field athletes are well known for vomiting prior and after a race/event due to many reasons, anxiety being one. I've personally witnessed this on several occasions while at race events.

http://m.runnersworld.com/race-training/puking-primer

Just food for thought. :waitasec:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/oscar-pistorius.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

OP took the NYT Magazine writer doing a piece on him to various of his haunts, one being his trainer's gym:

Some of the equipment is clamped to an exterior wall of the garage, opposite an uncovered patio; when it rains, athletes just carry on and get soaked. “It’s old-school,” Pistorius said as we drove up to the place early one morning. “Some of the guys who train here, they bang it so hard, they often get sick in the garden. Nobody judges them.”

 

[Trooper]

He didn't state those thing is his bail application or plea statement because they have nothing at all to do with his defense. Nel is the only one claiming a possible diminished capacity. Not Oscar. Not Roux.

Ok for realz - that's my last post on the issue. Off to work ...

<modsnip> his own expert witness bought the matter up!!..

 

[CriLondon]

High performance track and field athletes are well known for vomiting prior and after a race/event due to many reasons, anxiety being one. I've personally witnessed this on several occasions while at race events.

http://m.runnersworld.com/race-training/puking-primer

Just food for thought. :waitasec:

Last example of a top athlete being affected by that is footballer Lionel Messi of FC Barcelona. Just thought i'd add another example.