Trial Discussion Thread #48

[foxbluff]

View attachment 55174View attachment 55174Does anyone have the tech to make this chart readible ?I wonder if there's any info we are not aware of here.. http://ewn.co.za/2014/03/25/Questions-surround-the-Pistorius-trial

I'm no techie, but I tried for hours yesterday opening article links trying to find a copy that was larger. Like you, I really want to read it, because I love orig docs... wanting to see "official" dates and times of day listed.I'm wondering if a faster searcher/fasterPC could do a google (images) to see all the copies available.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Naturally the Pistorius clan have realized the Truth about how Oscar Pistorius murdered Reeva… they are NOT mentally challenged.
They prefer an ongoing moral struggle than to see OP go to prison for life.

Also, there is a selfish psychological reason behind doing everything in their power to help OP… if OP is sent to prison, they won't be able to convince themselves that they are somehow to blame.

BIB1

LOL We have no evidence that also they are not mentally challenged. Perhaps this is a familial trait. Only joking!

BIB2

Did you mean to write "they are NOT somehow"

 

[AJ_DS]

BIB1

LOL We have no evidence that also they are not mentally challenged. Perhaps this is a familial trait. Only joking!

BIB2

Did you mean to write "they are NOT somehow"

if OP is sent to prison, they won't be able to convince themselves that they are somehow to blame.

People will try and convince themselves : "what if we had done more… maybe OP wouldn't be in prison..."

By doing anything and everything for OP, they build a 'psychological insurance policy' against any attempt at blaming themselves no matter how much they try.

It's human nature

 

[foxbluff]

Depends on how full Reeva's phone was… when one erases a message, the space occupied in the memory by the message is not wiped, it is only marked as being available… so that designated space in memory will only be written upon when space is required.

Ty... really good explanation. Now I take it that Moller found an erased space (that hadn't been overwritten) directly following RS's Feb. 8th message. BTW, do you (or anyone here) happen to know the approx. storage capacity of an I-phone if messages aren't erased?

 

[AJ_DS]

Ty... really good explanation. Now I take it that Moller found an erased space (that hadn't been overwritten) directly following RS's Feb. 8th message. BTW, do you (or anyone here) happen to know the approx. storage capacity of an I-phone if messages aren't erased?

Depends on the iPhone model

I'm not sure Moller found such a message… If he had, it would have been read in Court between both messages (i.e 8th at night and 9th in the morning)

 

[Scand]

Does anyone here have any info regarding the attempted murder referred to on page 28 of the psychologist's report..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Interested Bystander]

if OP is sent to prison, they won't be able to convince themselves that they are somehow to blame.

People will try and convince themselves : "what if we had done more… maybe OP wouldn't be in prison..."

By doing anything and everything for OP, they build a 'psychological insurance policy' against any attempt at blaming themselves no matter how much they try.

It's human nature

Ahhh, I now see what you mean. I completely misread the sentence.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I was wrong on at least one count.

For the longest time, I was convinced that OP was on his legs when he committed the murder. (My reasoning: he’d never allow himself to be “below” the girlfriend he was viciously fighting with - he loves power and total control. But during the trial I finally realized that OP is ARROGANT and SUPREMELY CONFIDENT enough that he’s never actually seen himself at a disadvantage, ever, with or without legs, contrary to his pitiful protestations. This is even more true with a 9mm in his hand.)

I now fully believe his was on his stumps, as the forensics illustrates. (Where’s it written that a 5'2" man cannot commit premeditated murder?) Whiny, wailing, puking OP presents himself as a “terrified”, “vulnerable” victim, at the mercy of a dangerous “intruder”, a “heroic” disabled guy who had no other option than to shoot four Black Talons through a closed, locked door.

REALLY?!!

Let us dispel that myth.

Let me illustrate with a true crime story how utterly ruthless and LETHAL a disabled person can be.

State of Texas v. James Patrick Bradley

Facts in a nut shell:

* Valentines’s Day.

* Disabled man in wheelchair/walker.

* Claimed wife rejected ring (i.e. him).

* Claimed wife was aggressor, she attacked him, he was “victim”.

* Claimed wife was going to call 911 to report spouse abuse (why would she do that if SHE was the abuser???).

* Claimed wife had shotgun.

* Claimed he was “scared”.

* Claimed he didn’t intend to kill wife.

* Shot wife SIX times when she came out of bathroom.

* Dismembered wife into 21 pieces, scattered all over El Paso, Texas and Dona Ana County, New Mexico.

* Lied about wife’s disappearance with false story.

* Prior history of violence against ex-wife.

* Blamed own defense counsel for “failures” and “errors”.

* Objected to court display of gruesome post-mortem photos of wife.

* Gave conflicting, contradictory initial statements vs. court testimony.

* Sentenced to life in prison.

http://www.kvia.com/news/Convicted-Killer-s-Request-For-Medical-Parole-Denied/15241856
VIDEO - http://www.kvia.com/news/Man-Senten...g-Wife-Requests-Humanitarian-Release/15268546
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1215196.html

OP should receive NO special dispensation, NO leniency, NO mitigation for his brutal crime, simply because he’s disabled.

A 9mm Parabellum is a great equalizer.

Able-bodied Reeva could not escape him, with or without his legs.

He’s made a freaking career out of being SUPREMELY-ABLED.

Nowhere to hide, Oz.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

VALENTINE’S DAY.

A day of deep feelings and intense emotions.

Is this one of the keys to the murder of Reeva Steenkamp?

Some have speculated Valentine’s Day may somehow have been at least one partial catalyst for the murder.

The fact that OP did NOT have any card or gift for Reeva* screams volumes; it certainly does not weigh in his favor, on multiple, damning levels. In fact, that one blatant, critical omission tends to very heavily disprove his bleating claims of “love”, “happiness” and alleged domestic bliss.

* Where’s the proof, Ozzie? Where’s this “bracelet”? Or the receipt, if it was still at the jewelers, as he claimed? We saw her card and gifts to him - the ones he opened on a day he claimed was her birthday. Yeah, now that’s true love. omgwtfseriously? He didn’t even care enough about her to get her birth date right - in open court, on trial for her murder! Freud, where art thou?)

 

[Lux et Veritas]

VALENTINE’S DAY.

A day of deep feelings and intense emotions.

Is this one of the keys to the murder of Reeva Steenkamp?

Some have speculated Valentine’s Day may somehow have been at least one partial catalyst for the murder.

The fact that OP did NOT have any card or gift for Reeva* screams volumes; it certainly does not weigh in his favor, on multiple, damning levels. In fact, that one blatant, critical omission tends to very heavily disprove his bleating claims of “love”, “happiness” and alleged domestic bliss.

* Where’s the proof, Ozzie? Where’s this “bracelet”? Or the receipt, if it was still at the jewelers, as he claimed? We saw her card and gifts to him - the ones he opened on a day he claimed was her birthday. Yeah, now that’s true love. omgwtfseriously? He didn’t even care enough about her to get her birth date right - in open court, on trial for her murder! Freud, where art thou?)

 

[Greater Than]

Even if they don't believe he "murdered" her in cold blood, he did admit to shooting her through a closed toilet door and killing her, I really cannot understand why he would think people would just let it go and welcome him back with open arms. Surely there must be at least one or two among his vastly large and wealthy family that are having trouble accepting OP's versions and excuses. Even if he was one of my sons, at this point I'd certainly be hard-pressed to believe that he's not at least partially culpable for any negative publicity he receives when he continues to insist on living like he'd done nothing wrong before his trial has even finished, let alone for what he's being charged with.

BIB - Loyal to a fault.

 

[Greater Than]

Thanks for the info and your perspective on the situation which I mostly agree with.

Do you believe no one in that Club was surprised/shocked to see OP there ?… and if they were, that OP did not pick up on that ?

Do you believe no one in that Club gave OP dirty looks ?… and if they did, that OP did not notice them ?

Do you believe no one in that Club badmouthed OP amongst themselves ?… and if they did, that OP did not notice it ?

Yes, there will always be nut-jobs out there that will blindly believe and support famous individuals… but in OP's case there are not hundreds of people outside the courtroom cheering him on, only a dozen or so… the rest are just curious, want to see a glimpse of OP in person, etc…

How easy and cheap would it be to pay a few people to cheer, give him a bouquet of flowers and proffer a few words of encouragement to OP ?

One must remember, OP went from famous to notorious… notoriety also attracts people.

As for the social media support… yes, I'm sure there is some… but one should not forget that OP has a whole PR firm working on his image… the extend of which can be appreciated by the 'leaked' video to the Australian broadcaster and the 2 episode special that was created for that specific purpose.

Do you believe that all the pro-OP websites, Twitter profiles and Facebook pages are all genuine and that none are bought and paid for by OP ?

Even WS and other forums like it are likely to be monitored and infiltrated to counter-balance the negative posts about OP and his guilt.

I even read somewhere that OP paid Google to alter search results.

Look, I think we all agree he had no business being at some trendy night club while on trial for murder. If he didn't go there looking for trouble, he at least went there asking for it.

I have no doubt there were some people in that club who were disgusted by the mere fact that they were breathing the same air as a cold-blooded killer, (my friends and I certainly were every time OJ showed up to a club we were at), but I think you underestimate the effect a celebrity has on some people when they're face-to-face with them. Many seemingly level-headed, rational people act as though they're witnessing the second coming of Christ or something. I've personally seen it - from OJ, to Jennifer Lopez, to P Diddy, to Kim Kardashian - people just become star struck and forget they actually loathe the person.

As for the pro-OP websites and social media accounts, his publicist and PR team are clearly working in overdrive right now. That's evident. And the more stunts he pulls like the one the other night, the more they have to go behind him in an effort to clean up his mess. But I think you're giving him too much credit and too much power. The Pistorius family may be very influential, but to suggest he has the capability to alter the index or results of one of the most widely used search engines on the World Wide Web is a stretch IMO.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

By the by, going back to the cell phone that was stolen from the crime scene and kept for almost two weeks... has it ever come up that OP's brother may have been knowledgeable enough to know how to "tamper" with it, no need to call in outside help?

https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=87360&dl=true&src=false


http://showbizdaily.net/8083/who-is-the-woman-oscar-pistorius-brother-carl-pistorius-killed/

Wow, I did not know that! Not only is it possible Carl tampered with Oscar's phone but extremely probable. Hellz, I'd stake my life on it. There's simply no other rational reason for the family to steal that one phone from the crime scene. So many disparate, mysterious puzzle pieces are gravitating together like liquid metal beads coming together to form The Terminator.

Thanks for that link, Val!

 

[Greater Than]

Going back to info about the background to some of those texts RS sent, I don't recall having seen this bit before:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/hougaard-denies-sms-to-reeva-1.1583956

Hougaard had, however, seen her about two weeks before her death, at a mutual friend’s engagement dinner, he told the magazine

http://www.thejournal.ie/oscar-pistorius-trial-4-1379718-Mar2014/

Steenkamp’s message suggests that Pistorius got angry with her for “flirting” with another man at a party, and she says she feels like she’s living in a “double standard relationship.”

Sounds to me like he got upset because she dared to speak to someone who she had just recently been dating... and OP felt "threatened" and according to his reply, over-reacted.

I don't think it was Hougaard who prompted that argument. In her text she said, "I'm sorry if you truly felt I was hitting on my friend Sam's husband and I'm sorry that u think that little of me."

I would actually understand if he felt insecure about her talking to an ex, but he caused a scene over her talking to her friend's husband!

 

[Greater Than]

I don't need to idealise a victim but there is a tired familiarity to this debate about women who "play with fire", are critiqued as "shallow" or seen by others to sell themselves short and make unintelligent choices as a their precursor to death - people said similar things of Nicole Simpson (and Ronald Goldman), Simon Gittany's victim Lisa Harnum, even of Allison Baden-Clay and the recent long recent list of girlfriends shot dead by their teen boyfriends...

Irregardless on judgements about the modelling industry or reality shows, or the lifestyle choices of each victim, it's Pistorius that shot four times at a toilet door.

Agreed. It's almost as bad as OP blaming her - "I wish she would have just let me know she was in there."

She didn't deserve any of what he did to her. She didn't deserve to be ridiculed for her accents or gum chewing. She didn't deserve to be humiliated and forced to leave her best friend's engagement party just because he was insecure and jealous. She didn't deserve the fear she must have felt during her last moments alive. She didn't deserve to have her life tragically cut short by someone she trusted. And she CERTAINLY doesn't deserve to have folks on a discussion forum judging her and her career choice.

RIP Reeva

 

[AJ_DS]

Look, I think we all agree he had no business being at some trendy night club while on trial for murder. If he didn't go there looking for trouble, he at least went there asking for it.

I have no doubt there were some people in that club who were disgusted by the mere fact that they were breathing the same air as a cold-blooded killer, (my friends and I certainly were every time OJ showed up to a club we were at), but I think you underestimate the effect a celebrity has on some people when they're face-to-face with them. Many seemingly level-headed, rational people act as though they're witnessing the second coming of Christ or something. I've personally seen it - from OJ, to Jennifer Lopez, to P Diddy, to Kim Kardashian - people just become star struck and forget they actually loathe the person.

As for the pro-OP websites and social media accounts, his publicist and PR team are clearly working in overdrive right now. That's evident. And the more stunts he pulls like the one the other night, the more they have to go behind him in an effort to clean up his mess. But I think you're giving him too much credit and too much power. The Pistorius family may be very influential, but to suggest he has the capability to alter the index or results of one of the most widely used search engines on the World Wide Web is a stretch IMO.

In total agreement with everything you said…

…except BiB

It has been explained that one can optimize search engine results to favor on site over others… there are companies that specialize in that alone.

It's not about being 'powerful' or 'influential' enough to modify Google results… it's simply about paying professionals to expertly exploit Google's search algorithms to produce the desired results.

… and we have seen the Pistorius clan doesn't shy from expensive professional services when OP is concerned, not even with seemingly frivolous inconsequential ones.

 

[AJ_DS]

Wow, I did not know that! Not only is it possible Carl tampered with Oscar's phone but extremely probable. Hellz, I'd stake my life on it. There's simply no other rational reason for the family to steal that one phone from the crime scene. So many disparate, mysterious puzzle pieces are gravitating together like liquid metal beads coming together to form The Terminator.

Thanks for that link, Val!

Correction for the sake of exactness : "gravitating together like liquid metal beads coming together to form the T1000 model Terminator."


:hilarious:

 

[vansleuths]

Good point … I agree

I always believed that if OP had come clean and said that in heated argument that spun out of control, he fired at Reeva in a moment of blind furious anger, OP could have mounted a diminished responsibility Defence similar to to those road-rage incidents.

Doing so would have had the double benefit of being the truth (which is always good) but also avoiding embarrassing and contradicting testimony on the stand.

Pleading guilty to the 3 minor gun related charges would have also greatly helped and avoided further embarrassing and contradicting testimony.

With an honest and voluntary participation to a psyche-eval on those basis, OP would probably have been deemed to have suffered from automatism and his responsibility would have been greatly diminished.

But, as you stated, OP opted for the 'all in' scenario… probably because he believes (incorrectly) that he can always win.

BIB I wonder what this trial will do for his ego if he does indeed walk away on the murder charge, slim, but stranger things have happened.

 

[vansleuths]

Yup, if he'd "fessed up" at the beginning, he might even have gotten off with probation as his penalty, since the penalty is up to the judge's discretion and she's already made that comment about not wanting him to "suffer twice".....

BIB I think a lot of us were left scratching our head with this comment. I know we all made our own inferences, but it would have been nice to know just exactly what the judge meant when she made this comment. When was the first time OP suffered?

 

[Greater Than]

Depends on the iPhone model

I'm not sure Moller found such a message… If he had, it would have been read in Court between both messages (i.e 8th at night and 9th in the morning)

That text wasn't an SMS message, though. They used WhatsApp to text each other.