Trial Discussion Thread #48

[vansleuths]

Here's something interesting.

In my house, my wife has our whole family trained that after we use the toilet, we put the seat down and close the lid. Pistorius was very lucky in that the lid was up on his toilet as that allowed him to at least make the claim that Reeva went to relieve herself. If the lid had been down, that would have made it so much more difficult.

There were a few other things like this that did work out in his favour

 

[katydid23]

I also believe he called his neighbour so he wouldn't have to act out an emotional 911 call, then have the recording dogging him in court. Yep.. his dramatic decent down the stairs carrying his dying girlfriend. The scene was horribly traumatic for his neighbours. Their presence gave real emotion to the scene and they were great witnesses for his crying and praying and all that other crap. Oscar was in control of everything. His downfall will be that, typical to his personality disorder, he believes he is more intelligent than any other one of us.
- Sherry5Berry nationalpost.com

This is exactly what I think he did. Like his slick PR gurus, he stage-managed the initial crime scene to a perfect T.

I agree. Well said.

I do have faith in Nel, but I still wonder why we never heard from net care? Wouldn't they have records or recordings showing what was said in that initial call from OP? I really want to know if anyone ever told him to bring her in himself. That seems unreal, unless he downplayed the situation.

 

[katydid23]

Here's something interesting.

In my house, my wife has our whole family trained that after we use the toilet, we put the seat down and close the lid. Pistorius was very lucky in that the lid was up on his toilet as that allowed him to at least make the claim that Reeva went to relieve herself. If the lid had been down, that would have made it so much more difficult.

There were a few other things like this that did work out in his favour

True, although he had plenty of time to lift the lid while he was in that cubicle, watching her last breaths.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I'd really ask anyone following this case who believes Oscar's actions are reasonable because of his disability if they live/care for someone disabled. It's exactly because of that I personally find it so implausible.

My husband (now lovingly referred to as Speed Racer, as a way of making him now being wheelchair bound tolerable) is obviously vulnerable but its difficult, in my opinion, to fully comprehend this from an able-bodied POV with no day to day experience of disability.

If we're going to accept that someone's disability invokes a heightened level of fear, then to my mind we also have to concede that someone's physical limitations would still rule supreme. So...why would someone disabled and vulnerable approach an unknown threat when he had other opportunities available to him? And that's where his vulnerability all falls apart for me. He very literally went out of his way to confront the unknown - unaided by even his prosthetics.

My husband recently got his wheel stuck in a rut on the pavement down the road. His only option was to ring me to come help him out. He sat there for awhile, trying to get out himself, and sat still waiting several minutes for me. And had anything happened - a random mugging, some drunk yob, a car jumping the kerb - my husband truly would have been utterly helpless. So right or wrong, reasonable or not, callous or not, Oscar's level of vulnerability and his actions as a result fly in the face of the vulnerability I witness daily.

JMO and FWIW

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Simply PERFECT, BritsKate.

It’s crystal clear that OP deliberately made himself “vulnerable” in every conceivable way to fit his “intruder” story.

As you stated, he blithely walked past escape offered by the bedroom doors a couple feet away ... to walk 21 FEET to the bathroom and into “danger” - in the “pitch black”, on his stumps.

1000X worse, he never even yelled to Reeva to RUN out the bedroom doors to safety!

What reasonable, able-bodied man would contemplate such madness even for a second, never mind one with any genuine disability?!! His “version” is utterly toxic trash.

p.s. My warm regards to "Speed Racer".

 

[kittychi]

Here's something interesting.

In my house, my wife has our whole family trained that after we use the toilet, we put the seat down and close the lid. Pistorius was very lucky in that the lid was up on his toilet as that allowed him to at least make the claim that Reeva went to relieve herself. If the lid had been down, that would have made it so much more difficult.

There were a few other things like this that did work out in his favour

Yes, and since it was all they had, his Defense exploited those things to the hilt. Off the top of my head: ladders outside, Botha walking in crime scene without protective footwear, no call from Reeva to police on her phone, normal text from Reeva to Gina that she would be staying the night at OP's, Frank not willing to say anything.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Absolutely *lovin* your posts, Lux!

I wonder if he is thinking that the longer all this can be strung out, the more likely it is people are going to forgive him/he will be let off, on the basis of 'time being the great healer'. Well, in the UK there are a fair amount of celebrities (Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris, etc, etc) who are now being held to account for past misdeeds .. time should make not one jot of difference .. Pistorius executed and mutilated a beautiful young woman, with so much ahead of her, he has to pay for that and he has to pay for that in this lifetime, not in some kind of afterlife by a god that he uses to make himself look humble and who although he asserts his belief in his god, he doesn't seem to have any fear about being judged by him, hence I don't believe he believes in his god quite as much as he asserts he does.

Thanks, Jay-jay!

There's not enough time in the universe to wash away OP's heinous deed.

"Execute" her is exactly what he did. Honestly, whether it was Reeva or a real intruder, he was nothing short of a sociopathic coward to shoot four Black Talons through a closed, locked door.

And yes..."God" and the "Bible" and "prayer" and "religious-tweets" cover a multitude of grievous sins, don't they? LOL

Religion is always the last refuge of murderers. Ah, all the come-to-Jesus "conversions" in prison!

Perhaps OP can start his own prison ministry.

The Gospel of St. Oscar.

.

(I rather suspect we'd see angry Oscar-tweets throwing God under the bus.)

 

[Lux et Veritas]

BIB - Not automatically? Having a physical disability does not EVER excuse one from murder.

There isn't one law for able-bodied people, and another for disabled people.

You are correct, Greater Than! I didn't even need "automatically" in that sentence.

Although I would still argue that OP is trying mightily to play his twisted "Vulnerable-Disabled-GAD" card to automatically acquit himself on this one merit alone - as if his self-proclaimed conditions would absolve anyone in the same circumstances, as if he needed no other prima facie defense. LOL Pathetic, isn't it?

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

After the murder, OP could utter only a few words regarding what happened. 'Thought she was an intruder'
Standers, Stipp, his best friend Divaris , his coach heard nothing more than that from him for hours..
He was so mortified that he couldn't talk even at some point he could not even talk on the phone to security , only crying was heard. Only mumbling . AN ACCIDENT HAPPENED AND I THOUGHT SHE WAS AN INTRUDER.PERIOD. No more no less.

I would expect an innocent person at least to try to tell the whole tragedy to each coming person after a while, how it happened etc esp to a best friend but that's just me. Anyway..

But then OP gives instructions to Standers , tells them to take dead Reeva with brains flowing from the holes in her head to hospital , talks to Carice in the kitchen , careful enough to notice Dr Stipp's actions and even to critisize him in court, calls his lawyer and takes a trip to upstairs and goes thru Reeva's bag..

Seems very calculative and selective again and again.. JMO :jail:

 

[4MrsB]

BIB I'm not defending OP, but I just want to show another side to this. In public, many people put on a brave front. People go to work with mental and physical difficulties, never letting anyone know what their frailties or problems are. It's only when they get home, alone and in the still of darkness that they feel the emptiness and weakness of whatever is affecting them.

OP may say in public that he was not disabled, but I'm sure in private, he did feel inadequacies.

There is a great deal of truth and insight into what you've posted IMO.

My take on OP's disability & inadequacies . . .
OP was given the incouragement & drive from his Mom to try anything & everything and to not fear limitations due to his physical handicap. However, even with this great support and upbringing from his Mom, he of course incountered "outsiders" who could be cruel and his awareness (as he grew older) of his physical "differences" were a painful daily reality, regardless of how well he could overcome them while using prothesis. As a result, I believe OP has lots of unresolved anger, jealously, resentment and a huge "chip on his shoulder" for the situation he was born with.

I believe he has severe inadequacy issues. And even if he doesn't acknowledge them "outloud" to even himself ... he spends his daily life trying to over compensate for it. Like the flashy expensive cars, reckless behavior & always driving at such unsafe speeds, the flaunting of all the "chicks" he's been with to Reeva (and likely to all prev girlfriends), all the blonde sexy girlfriends (who look almost like clones) on his arm and the need for them to shower their attention on OP every minute. I am sure the guns help with feeling safe in S.A. but I also believe they're a power thing with OP - makes him feel like a "big man", always in control.

His moodiness and quick temper IMO are related to situations when OP is unable to control the outcome that he desires or feels he's entitled too. After achieving such "stardom in S.A." he feels a great sense of entitlement, as well as power - as all of Africa stands behind him in support and has him placed high up on a pedestal, where he can do no wrong. I think when the situation with Reeva escalated to a state where Reeva would be forced to speak out (likely to police, which means the media gets light of it as well) he felt his "image" (and all that goes with it - $$$, fame & future opportunity) was more important than sparing Reeva - he probably rationalized it as her fault somehow for letting things escalate or pi$$ing him off so badly. Anyway - due to his sense of entitlement and inflated ego - OP felt certain he could cover up yet one more "indiscretion" and he would have all of Africa's full support, even sympathy from the public, as he had just lost the "love of his life" so tragically.

 

[jilly]

The issue is not whether OP has the right to wear NIKE clothing. He can wear anything he wants (unless, or course, his NIKE contract forbids him to publicly wear NIKE if he ever breaches his contact, but who knows - I imagine murder would be a very serious breach).

That he deliberately wore NIKE tank/shorts during his MURDER reenactment video clearly shows his out-of-whack psyche. NIKE dropped him! It’s like he’s in serious denial. He did not yank them out of his closet my sheer accident.

IMO, he’s advertising that he’s still available for sponsorships, foolishly hoping against hope that he’s got some sports career left, a glimmer of former glories. It’s simply another sad, damning self-indictment.

Knowing Oscar, he might just have worn that clothing to thumb his nose at Nike.

 

[Val1]

Knowing Oscar, he might just have worn that clothing to thumb his nose at Nike.

In North America(if not elsewhere too), the tops like what RS was and I'm guessing OP often wear are commonly called wife-beaters, something he'd likely have been advised not to wear during his video taping by his American "Evidence Room" team, perhaps his other choices were limited... after all we've all heard just how broke he is.:/

 

[geevee]

Knowing Oscar, he might just have worn that clothing to thumb his nose at Nike.

That's what I think, a great big F-U for dropping him when he was acting out the scene that would free him from all this scrutiny, not to mention a murder conviction. His head really is puffed.

 

[foxbluff]

True, although he had plenty of time to lift the lid while he was in that cubicle, watching her last breaths.

I agree he had time to tamper with a number of items and I believe he did. I'm guessing that by "lid" you mean the toilet seat? If so, since it was drenched in RS's blood, it was best left in the down position. imo

 

[foxbluff]

I agree. Well said.

I do have faith in Nel, but I still wonder why we never heard from net care? Wouldn't they have records or recordings showing what was said in that initial call from OP? I really want to know if anyone ever told him to bring her in himself. That seems unreal, unless he downplayed the situation.

You're not alone in wondering why net care wasn't called to testify! It's one of those nagging questions many of us want the answer to. It seems to me that what they had to say about the telephone call from OP would have helped either the PT or the DT. (I know that net care was on the prosecution's list of witnesses.)

The other "$64,000." question is how did OP know to call Stander to help take RS to hospital before he made the call to net care?

Does anybody know if Nel asked OP about that?

 

[katydid23]

You're not alone in wondering why net care wasn't called to testify! It's one of those nagging questions many of us want the answer to. It seems to me that what they had to say about the telephone call from OP would have helped either the PT or the DT. (I know that net care was on the prosecution's list of witnesses.)

The other "$64,000." question is how did OP know to call Stander to help take RS to hospital before he made the call to net care?

Does anybody know if Nel asked OP about that?

Exactly. Good question and I don't remember Nel asking that pertinent question.

Also, why call an older man, who is a car ride away, for help carrying a mortally wounded patient, when there is an able bodied employee, just downstairs? Why didnt he call out to Frank to help him move Reeva? They could have moved her to a vehicle within minutes.

 

[foxbluff]

Hi everyone,
Have been monitoring here for quite a while, and feel that I would like to contribute. I have my trash can lid ready, and I don a hard hat. Big breath. Here goes. Putting aside the emotion, tears on both sides throughout evidence presented, I can still see that a young person with a disability, regardless of how accomplished, would feel fearful and threatened if suddenly he was aware of a noise he did not expect in a different room, especially in a place like South Africa with a culture overabundance of nervous trigger-fingers.
Is this reasonable, Yes. Is this a reasonable yarn to apply for guilty young person with a disability, also yes.
When I add history of brash behaviour of youth, which is not altogether uncommon or unusual for me, it does not necessarily add that much to the 'guilty of murder' cause. His mother was very nervous of home invasion and violation as well.

All I can think is if I was in the same situation and mindset I could fire off a volley of shots without thinking. There is also the idea that he lost his temper and head ( another thing that young men can do ) and fired at she that incensed him.

The judge and team have the data. They will make the right decision I am sure. I cannot imagine much would get past the Judge. She comes across as wise and dependable.

:truce:

Hi HoolyDooly and welcome aboard !!

I was tickled by the image of you tiptoeing into this "circus" armed with trash can lid and hard hat and all the while waving a white flag. LOL

IMO we need more posters here who don't agree with the majority opinion... makes for better discussion. I like the way you worded your post, acknowledging different possibilities. Let's face it, although many of us feel strongly that OP's guilty, none of us knows for sure. Nor do we know what the Judge will decide.

I wouldn't btw want to be in her shoes for love or money!

 

[kittychi]

You're not alone in wondering why net care wasn't called to testify! It's one of those nagging questions many of us want the answer to. It seems to me that what they had to say about the telephone call from OP would have helped either the PT or the DT. (I know that net care was on the prosecution's list of witnesses.)

The other "$64,000." question is how did OP know to call Stander to help take RS to hospital before he made the call to net care?

Does anybody know if Nel asked OP about that?

So this makes me wonder if perhaps depositions were taken before the trial that would answer the many questions we have. More than once we have asked each other why Nel did not confront a clear break in OP's story, or why he did not call him on obvious (to us) lies during his testimony, or why certain witnesses were not called.

Could it be that depositions were taken during discovery period, presented to the judge, and we would never know the content of those?

 

[BritsKate]

There is a great deal of truth and insight into what you've posted IMO.

My take on OP's disability & inadequacies . . .
OP was given the incouragement & drive from his Mom to try anything & everything and to not fear limitations due to his physical handicap. However, even with this great support and upbringing from his Mom, he of course incountered "outsiders" who could be cruel and his awareness (as he grew older) of his physical "differences" were a painful daily reality, regardless of how well he could overcome them while using prothesis. As a result, I believe OP has lots of unresolved anger, jealously, resentment and a huge "chip on his shoulder" for the situation he was born with.

I believe he has severe inadequacy issues. And even if he doesn't acknowledge them "outloud" to even himself ... he spends his daily life trying to over compensate for it. Like the flashy expensive cars, reckless behavior & always driving at such unsafe speeds, the flaunting of all the "chicks" he's been with to Reeva (and likely to all prev girlfriends), all the blonde sexy girlfriends (who look almost like clones) on his arm and the need for them to shower their attention on OP every minute. I am sure the guns help with feeling safe in S.A. but I also believe they're a power thing with OP - makes him feel like a "big man", always in control.

His moodiness and quick temper IMO are related to situations when OP is unable to control the outcome that he desires or feels he's entitled too. After achieving such "stardom in S.A." he feels a great sense of entitlement, as well as power - as all of Africa stands behind him in support and has him placed high up on a pedestal, where he can do no wrong. I think when the situation with Reeva escalated to a state where Reeva would be forced to speak out (likely to police, which means the media gets light of it as well) he felt his "image" (and all that goes with it - $$$, fame & future opportunity) was more important than sparing Reeva - he probably rationalized it as her fault somehow for letting things escalate or pi$$ing him off so badly. Anyway - due to his sense of entitlement and inflated ego - OP felt certain he could cover up yet one more "indiscretion" and he would have all of Africa's full support, even sympathy from the public, as he had just lost the "love of his life" so tragically.

I'm left to wonder if he's insecure, entitled, abusive, violent, reckless, and dangerous as a knock on result of his disability or if, possibly as compensation for his disability, he was allowed to behave as and how he wished - never being held accountable.

To be clear, I'm not trying to blame Oscar's family...but, after volunteering for domestic violence groups both sides of the pond, I've met far too many Oscars. From what I've learned - some have horrible histories but others were the light of their parent's eyes - 'could do no wrong' golden boys, never in trouble until they hurt a woman so badly she was hospitalised...or dead. (Scott Peterson is a perfect example.) Control is absolutely everything...many people believe abuse is about violence. In reality, violence is one of many tools an abusive personality uses to exert and maintain control.

As an adult, his family appears to be overly accepting of some pretty concerning behaviours so it definitely piques my curiosity as to what 'made' Oscar.

JMO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[vansleuths]

Post #1473 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ead-45-14-07-3-Day-36&p=10711079#post10711079

Thanks Greater Than. You are correct that Nike could go after the TV station for not blurring out the Nike logo when airing their show and I think they would have a case.

OP I think is still safe from any lawsuits because I doubt it was ever written in his contract that he can't wear a Nike shirt after their contract is finished...though I stand to be corrected if someone can show me the contract between Nike and OP.

 

[vansleuths]

Absolutely *lovin* your posts, Lux!

I wonder if he is thinking that the longer all this can be strung out, the more likely it is people are going to forgive him/he will be let off, on the basis of 'time being the great healer'. Well, in the UK there are a fair amount of celebrities (Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris, etc, etc) who are now being held to account for past misdeeds .. time should make not one jot of difference .. Pistorius executed and mutilated a beautiful young woman, with so much ahead of her, he has to pay for that and he has to pay for that in this lifetime, not in some kind of afterlife by a god that he uses to make himself look humble and who although he asserts his belief in his god, he doesn't seem to have any fear about being judged by him, hence I don't believe he believes in his god quite as much as he asserts he does.

BIB, I think as a celebrity, whether he is found innocent or guilty, he will pay because he has lost everything he has ever worked for in terms of his athletics, his post-retirement plans, the respect of friends and family. It's all gone. No matter where he goes, people will always whisper behind his back about how he was once accused of murder and "got a way with it". It will never leave him in this life, it will haunt him until the day he dies.

As for the afterlife, I leave that up to OPs relationship with God, but I do believe everyone, no matter who, is entitled to forgiveness after atonement. While none of us have probably ever killed anyone, I'm sure we've all done some things we're not very proud of. Jesus did say, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone....