Trial Discussion Thread #51 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

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turaj said:
Yep not good for the entire country...a bit surprised that so many are hung up on the actual law here because I see it more from this PR perspective...OP right now is plotting his next competition and his manager will be back in business.
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LOL! You seem to be overlooking a potential 15 year sentence for CH and another 15 years for weapons violations, that comes tomorrow. And least you not forget that the State can and likely will appeal Masipa's decisions today, and definitely her sentencing if it is equally unjust. No fat ladies are even in the house, much less singing a tune yet. Chill out...
 
LemonMousse said:
That makes no logical sense, let alone legal.

Nel will appeal. And I bet he told Milady in chambers that he would as soon as she'd finished delivering her judgement.
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He won't be able to appeal if it is an acquittal so I hear.
 
I wonder why Masipa ended proceedings so quickly today, without actually stating OP is guilty of CH, and after such a protracted lunch adjournment in which Roux and Nel were summoned to her chambers. Perhaps she needs time to do a bit of rewriting (I write, hopefully)!? It certainly seems strange to argue everything for CH and then not pronounce on it. I feel there'll be another "however..." starting tomorrow's proceedings.
 
As an example of what a reasonable person would do, I can attest that the 1 or 2 times that I actually did get up in the middle of the night to investigate a suspicous sound in the house and when I grabbed my handgun to investigate that I absolutely did waken my spouse and made certain she would not leave the bedroom under any circumstances.
 
I don't understand why the Judge didn't say something like, I don't believe your story, Oscar, but there is not enough evidence to prove you guilty. Instead of saying that she believes his story of Reeva sleeping in the bed, he thought it was intruder!
 
So Confused....???

Judge totally disregards that 2 witnesses saw lights on in bathroom during 1st of bangs, & hears screaming from a woman???
Judge totally disregards that 4 witnesses heard woman screaming after 1st set of bangs & through 2nd set of bangs (until final shot delivered, then it stopped)???

Judge states OP was unreliable witness as far as his testimony, then states since HE said same story to every one ("thought it was an intruder") we must take it to be true (what else was he going to say? His lie was not exactly "rocket science", few options to pick from when girlfriend lying dead in your bathroom & noisy gunshots fired at 3:15am).
Judge disregards OP's gun law knowledge when determining dolus eventualis but then brings up when discussing CH???
Judge says OP didn't foresee shooting 4 bullets into tiny cubicle would kill the person inside when discussing dolus eventualis, but then brings it up as fact he should have known when discussing CH???

I am so confused (and disappointed. Reeva's patient family deserved better. . . as did Reeva!)

Still scratching my head on how she could totally disregard 4 witnesses hearing a woman's blood curdling screams & the timing of them.

??? :confused:
 
Hatfield said:
As an example of what a reasonable person would do, I can attest that the 1 or 2 times that I actually did get up in the middle of the night to investigate a suspicous sound in the house and when I grabbed my handgun to investigate that I absolutely did waken my spouse and made certain she would not leave the bedroom under any circumstances.
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All this time I thought you were a woman hatfield!
 
So Masipa believes OP when he said 'he never intended to kill anyone'?
 
Viper said:
LOL! You seem to be overlooking a potential 15 year sentence for CH and another 15 years for weapons violations, that comes tomorrow. And least you not forget that the State can and likely will appeal Masipa's decisions today, and definitely her sentencing if it is equally unjust. No fat ladies are even in the house, much less singing a tune yet. Chill out...
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She will find him not guilty on the shooting through the sunroof, but guilty for the Tasha's incident. This will only carry a fine.
And apparently she will find him not guilty on the possession of illegal ammunition too because she mentioned today that "the caliber of ammunition that was used is irrelevant".

So shocking.
 
MeeBee said:
I find this better in a lot of ways than jury trials.
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I see merit in both systems. Because I love learning about the legal process outside the US, I am hugely enjoying hearing a South African judge explain her reasoning about the case, point by point.
Would have loved to hear a number of American juries have to explain their verdict in the same manner.
 
aa9511 said:
I don't understand why the Judge didn't say something like, I don't believe your story, Oscar, but there is not enough evidence to prove you guilty. Instead of saying that she believes his story of Reeva sleeping in the bed, he thought it was intruder!
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Why did she specifically believe him when he said that he thought Reeva was sleeping in bed? I find a lot of her reasonings odd.

I particular don't understand how she can look at the shooting as irrelevant who was behind the door. I have always believed that if he did in fact believe someone had entered his house and was so angry that he reached for his gun and was determined to injure or kill whoever had the audacity to try to break into his house... I later stopped believing that. However, Masipa can't really say that his intent would be the same regardless of who it was, intruder or Reeva. They would definitely be different. He could have intended to kill the intruder without hesitation but then realised that he had mistakenly shot Reeva who he thought was in bed.
 
Question....need a little help:

If Oscar gets prison time for CH and his defense team appeals it (instead of "jumping for joy"), could the Appellate Court review case & hand down an even stiffer sentence to OP?

I thought I had read that the SA appellate courts can do that, and have. (If so, that would be awesome. OP making matters worse instead of being grateful . . . and for getting away with murder!
 
Lyra500 said:
Surely he would not be able to appeal until a final verdict had been handed down.

Unless he raised the issue of the misinterpretation of dolus eventualis when they were in chambers after lunch - but in that case surely proceedings would have been adjourned before Judge Masipa came back for half an hour after lunch and started on her judgement regarding culpable homicide.....
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You could be right. I imagine it was misinterpretation of dolus eventualis. I don't know what can and cannot be done in SA though I do vaguely remember reading that it was better to appeal before the trial ended. I am also unsure why the Judge ended her spiel so early. It could be said that she has unfairly kept OP waiting. He will be in a right lather tonight. The court's normal hours are longer than the sitting today. However, I don't quite know where it is judged that the trial has ended. Perhaps it can be done up until sentencing. I am not even sure that I am correct in what I thought I heard. There was far too much discussion going on where I was situated. I have looked for news on this and can find none at present so perhaps it was a question from a listener that I misinterpreted. I am sure we will find out very soon.
 
OMG....just woke up to this!!

Another O.J. verdict.

Can't believe it. Since OP was out on bail, will he ever spend even one night in jail for this murder??
 
as i said his manager is getting the calendar filled right now and if he gets sentences which is of course possible my extremely uneducated and non legal mind says he will not be put in prison for any of it but rather under the watchful eye of Arnold and yes the appeals will go on and on to no real conclusion other than costing all parties lots of money. No chill out needed here just being realistic.
 
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