Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[James50]

I've studied a lot of cases, but never come across a murderer who was remorseful or even close to apologising to anyone for his actions. It might happen one day, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[James50]

there has only been one claim to hearing no screaming, and that is the accused.. Oscar Pistorius..

I didn't say that. I said no WOMAN screaming.

 

[wb180]

Or maybe it was the moment when he was sick and fed up being repeatedly asked questions he'd already answered.

I don't think so, he was crying. Noone said he looked sick or fed up.

 

[Trooper]

I didn't say that. I said no WOMAN screaming.

evidence about there being at least 2 or 3 witnessed who didn't hear any woman scream.

your claim is still incorrect.. misleading.. every witness from the neighborhood testified to hearing a woman screaming..

its that simple.. your claim is incorrect...

 

[Trooper]

I didn't say that. I said no WOMAN screaming.

ALL witnesses so far have testified under oath they heard a woman screaming..

this is a basic fact.. its there in the transcript and in video. each and every one of them.

Mrs Van Der Mewre

Mrs Burger

Mr Johnson

Dr Stipp

Mrs Stipp


if there are any other witnesess in this trial that you have heard claim they heard NO woman screaming , please put their name up , and perhaps we should contact the Govt of the Republic of South Africa, who 's prosecutor has only put those ones up as witnesses..

 

[zwiebel]

WTH? The Mail's saying the blonde woman in the photo is Reeva's sister, and June is her mom!?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-horror-smirking-Bladerunner-face-court.html

ETA: Okay, I see. Sis was 18 when Reeva was born. I got confused. I had thought she was June's younger sister.

 

[wb180]

Well of course that is just a point of view, but I noticed an article, for example, posted on a South African website in which the writer said he had switched sides from believing OP was guilty to realising he was telling the truth following Nel's "embarassingly bad" cross examination on Friday.

For me it was the other way around. I had no idea who OP and RS but it was on the news and it was interesting. At first, I thought his bail statement was weird but not sure if he really meant to kill RS.

After listening to him and his answers, I know he is lying and when the main witness who knows the truth is lying to save his own skin, it means he is guilty in my eyes.

The only thing for me is whether Nel can crack him and whether we have enough circumstantial evidence right now.

 

[shane13]

]Thirty-one seconds. That’s how long Oscar Pistorius was silent when asked by Prosecutor Gerrie Nel if he heard Reeva Steenkamp scream after he fired the first of four shots that killed her[/B].

Late on the third day of what has been a *sustained and brutal cross-examination, Nel said: “Are you sure, Mr Pistorius, that Reeva didn’t scream after you fired the first shot?”

Oscar slumped back in his chair and kept quiet for 31 seconds. Court GD in Pretoria was *utterly silent.

On the audio recording, all that can be heard is Nel again asking “Are you sure?” after five seconds of silence had passed.

Eleven seconds later, a man can be heard taking a deep breath and slowly exhaling.

Surprisingly, it is Nel who breaks the silence to come to Pistorius’ rescue, saying: “My Lady, I’m *giving the witness time to console himself, he is distressed”.

“I wouldn’t have done that,” said an *experienced former prosecutor.

“I would have kept quiet and counted and then when he finally said something, I would have said: ‘That took you four and a half minutes. What were you thinking about?’’’

I thought that was the *moment he was going to crack, the former prosecutor added.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/osc...ce=cheapsms247.com&utm_medium=cheapsms247.com

Good post.

And I too have thought--contrary to the claims of "horrible Nel etc."--that Nel has been letting him off the hook.

This could be for several reasons: Deep collusion, or that Nel wants to leave no grounds for Appeal claim that he badgered him into "mistakes."
Of course, a third factor is that Nel is not done yet.

But we should not forget this episode and that long pause, as attys have said OP may have been on the verge of cracking, and Nel did not force him to speak...

We will have to see how it plays out.

 

[Val1]

For me it was the other way around. I had no idea who OP and RS but it was on the news and it was interesting. At first, I thought his bail statement was weird but not sure if he really meant to kill RS.

After listening to him and his answers, I know he is lying and when the main witness who knows the truth is lying to save his own skin, it means he is guilty in my eyes.

The only thing for me is whether Nel can crack him and whether we have enough circumstantial evidence right now.

bbm - Same, all I knew coming in was basically OP's version and it just didn't ring true so I started digging. It still doesn't ring true for me, I'm waiting to be convinced but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyway, g'night or g'day fellow sleuthers fftobed:

 

[zwiebel]

That pause - I was certain OP was about to crack too. I think Nel broke the silence to say to the judge that 'he was giving him a minute', just to try and avoid the judge stepping in and telling Nel to move on, myself.

 

[shane13]

WTH? The Mail's saying the blonde woman in the photo is Reeva's sister, and June is her mom!?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-horror-smirking-Bladerunner-face-court.html

ETA: Okay, I see. Sis was 18 when Reeva was born. I got confused. I had thought she was June's younger sister.

I believe it is her half-sister. Just like Reeva has an older half-brother, Adam. Both parents were married before IIRC. [Not 100% sure on this one, but I think half-sister is more likely.]

 

[jassy writer]

Well of course that is just a point of view, but I noticed an article, for example, posted on a South African website in which the writer said he had switched sides from believing OP was guilty to realising he was telling the truth following Nel's "embarassingly bad" cross examination on Friday.

Link?

And was this just "joe public" or somebody with an actual legal background, qualified to comment?

 

[shane13]

That pause - I was certain OP was about to crack too. I think Nel broke the silence to say to the judge that 'he was giving him a minute', just to try and avoid the judge stepping in and telling Nel to move on, myself.

Why or how could/would judge say that?

Shouldn't the judge more appropriately say, "Mr Pistorius you have to answer. This is a crucial question. You must answer now."

 

[salberg7]

I at first thought he was not guilty of premeditation, but culpable homicide. My opinion has since been changed to premeditation since OP himself has taken the stand. Albeit a lot of the evidence is circumstantial, defendants are found guilty with circumstantial evidence every day. The evidence doesn't add up for me anymore to be not guilty. However, it's up to the judge to determine reasonable doubt, & she may very well feel there is enough of that. If it were a jury trial, I might be more confident of a conviction. I do think this judge will be fair in her verdict, however. She has a proven track record of being able to make tough but fair decisions. Let's see is OP can manage another week of being on the witness stand. I do think he will lose his cool as he presents as emotionally labile. I do not think Nel is even being too aggressive in his methods. If anything, the judge & both attorneys have given much deference to Oscar. Too bad if Mr P can't take it.

 

[james83]

Then I urge you to listen to it, because you've already missed evidence about there being at least 2 or 3 witnessed who didn't hear any woman scream.

But yet the defence themselves say Oscar was screaming like a woman.

 

[jassy writer]

Lead story in the SA Sunday Times today (title: Oscar IS a liar)

In some of the most sensational exchanges in South African legal history, murder accused Oscar Pistorius was repeatedly accused of lying during cross examination by pit bull prosecutor Gerrie Nel this week.

Now the Sunday Times can reveal the lies Pistorius told this newspaper just weeks before that fatal Valentine ’s Day last year.

The athlete was so obsessed with maintaining his squeaky clean public image and lucrative sponsorship deals that he repeatedly lied to try to cover up an assault during December 2012, for which he had to receive medical attention.

[modsnip]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...ied-about-reputation-after-altercations-reeva

 

[shane13]

I at first thought he was not guilty of premeditation, but culpable homicide. My opinion has since been changed to premeditation since OP himself has taken the stand. Albeit a lot of the evidence is circumstantial, defendants are found guilty with circumstantial evidence every day. The evidence doesn't add up for me anymore to be not guilty. However, it's up to the judge to determine reasonable doubt, & she may very well feel there is enough of that. If it were a jury trial, I might be more confident of a conviction. I do think this judge will be fair in her verdict, however. She has a proven track record of being able to make tough but fair decisions. Let's see is OP can manage another week of being on the witness stand. I do think he will lose his cool as he presents as emotionally labile. I do not think Nel is even being too aggressive in his methods. If anything, the judge & both attorneys have given much deference to Oscar. Too bad if Mr P can't take it.

You think a whole 'nother week? Interesting.

But I've tried to let people know in advance they should not assume anything re verdict here despite all that might come out in court.

People should think of the 2 previous court hearings in this OP matter. Results were the opposite of what SA attys and court reporters predicted

And then they should find everything they can on Pros. dropping all charges
against Carl Pistorius [vehicular homicide or CH] last year. Including all that I wrote a year ago here.

 

[zwiebel]

Why or how could/would judge say that?

Shouldn't the judge more appropriately say, "Mr Pistorius you have to answer. This is a crucial question. You must answer now."

I would think so. But I was still worried sick the judge was going to step in and break what I was so, so sure was going to be 'the moment' of the trial. I was soooo deflated when it didn't happen.

 

[shane13]

I would think so. But I was still worried sick the judge was going to step in and break what I was so, so sure was going to be 'the moment' of the trial. I was soooo deflated when it didn't happen.

Z, is this trial big at all in D-land?

I've thought of 1 addn'l reason it might be.

Germans might be able to understand the testimony in Afrikaans, as it is a Dutch-daughter language, and Dutch and German are similar.
So big in Germany or not?

 

[zwiebel]

Lead story in the SA Sunday Times today (title: Oscar IS a liar)

In some of the most sensational exchanges in South African legal history, murder accused Oscar Pistorius was repeatedly accused of lying during cross examination by pit bull prosecutor Gerrie Nel this week.

Now the Sunday Times can reveal the lies Pistorius told this newspaper just weeks before that fatal Valentine ’s Day last year.

The athlete was so obsessed with maintaining his squeaky clean public image and lucrative sponsorship deals that he repeatedly lied to try to cover up an assault during December 2012, for which he had to receive medical attention.
[modsnip]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...ied-about-reputation-after-altercations-reeva

Wow. Very enlightening as to character if someone's willing to tell lies for no cause or reason whatsoever, and haven't even been asked, but are just volunteering info.