Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Forensics]

Hi guys, have been busy on other things last day or so, which prevented me from keeping up with posts. If this has already been discussed, my apologies.

I have just come across a report that the South African Human Rights Commission was contacted by a former commissioner from another government rights body, who says he intends to lodge a complaint over Nel’s words in court.

"The complainant, Jan Landman, said it was his opinion that in calling Pistorius a liar, Nel infringed on his right to a fair trial.

The Human Rights Commission said it would assess the complaint to decide if it would investigate."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oscar-...hilst-you-shot-her-four-times--141748433.html

yet another twist in this fascinating trial!!!

 

[kaos]

No worries

They've definitely not proved that.

Does he walk free if there's no proof of premeditated or can they downgrade during the course of the trial and attempt to convict him on any lesser charge?

Yes they have by virtue of his admission that he went towards possible danger without attempting to hide or flee.

The type of bullets he used have still to be addressed too.

 

[Mystymiss]

OP being in fear panic is hog wash! He wasn't in a panic about the broken glass window on the lower level of his home! OP version is from the land of MAKE BELIEVE....

 

[Viper]

Thanks, so it doesn't mean there was 'no evidence' of alcohol present, just that the tests were done so long after the event they'd have meant virtually nothing anyway.

He was taken to the hospital for many investigation reasons. Yes his blood alcohol content, but more importantly drug testing for illegal substances and a full body search for wounds and signs of a struggle with his victim. The later is what I am interested in learning about: scratches, contusions (bruising), scrapes (on his knees, that bedroom door was a b****!), etc... I cannot see how he could be that violent for that long and not have a mark on his body. Something was documented in one of those bundles that was put in to evidence.

 

[BabaJ]

The judge can automatically consider the lesser charge of culpable homicide - which would be the equivalent of manslaughter or second degree murder, or along those lines.

So, if they don't prove premeditated murder, which I don't think they have or will, then that doesn't mean he walks.

Would he actually do any jail time or just some kind of supervised confinement in this case?

 

[kittychi]

Though he'd driven home

Right. And could have had plenty to drink over the next 8 hours.

 

[kittychi]

OP being in fear panic is hog wash! He wasn't in a panic about the broken glass window on the lower level of his home! OP version is from the land of MAKE BELIEVE....

Right! You would think he would have had it boarded up temporarily so his home would be safe from intruders. What good are locks and security systems when someone could just pull out the broken blades of glass and climb in?

 

[Gryffindor]

Yes they have by virtue of his admission that he went towards possible danger without attempting to hide or flee.

The type of bullets he used have still to be addressed too.

Nope. They totally haven't. This is his charge

" 21 Feb 2013, 4:07pm

Nel says Pistorius is charged with the murder of a defenceless woman in a tiny toilet at three in the morning."

Telegraph Feb 2013

Dolus directus. Disproved thus far.

 

[kittychi]

I'm not sure how you read the clue, but to me the text meant she had been intending on coming home but lost track of time. Question is: what were they doing such that she ran out of time to come home?

I don't have exact quote of that text, either. I just remember it was something to that effect.

We will never know, but my bet is they had an issue and she was hopeful that the issue could be resolved. Instead it escalated.

 

[kaos]

Remember too that OP has been trained in how to "clear the house" so why not give the 'intruder' the chance to surrender? Even the police these days have to warn criminals they're going to shoot.

 

[atthelake]

Listening to Tricia's true crime radio program and they are saying that all parties have agreed that Oscar had his prosthetics OFF when shot at door. Jeez, I thought they finally agreed they were on. So recap, they were off when shot, and on when he came back with the hockey stick? Is that correct.

 

[Gryffindor]

Right. And could have had plenty to drink over the next 8 hours.

No evidence thus far.

 

[Cherwell]

Nope. They totally haven't. This is his charge

21 Feb 2013, 4:07pm

Nel says Pistorius is charged with the murder of a defenceless woman in a tiny toilet at three in the morning.

Dolus directus. Disproved thus far.

What, specifically, has been "disproved"?

 

[vansleuths]

Two questions

1. There's lot's of debate about just what was the conversation between NetCare and OP. Wouldn't NetCare have recorded all calls, similar to any other emergency service like 911? This is done in North America.

2. Nel said he would come back to the small fan power cable being under the speaker but I don't recall that taking place. Anyone remember? Here is a pic of it

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/small-fan-2-day-19-part-2.png

 

[Gryffindor]

What, specifically, has been "disproved"?

What I stated in the post immediately prior to it. His charge. Not proven, to date.

 

[Cherwell]

What I stated in the post immediately prior to it. His charge. Not proven, to date.

That's not the same as "disproved".

 

[kaos]

Nope. They totally haven't. This is his charge

" 21 Feb 2013, 4:07pm

Nel says Pistorius is charged with the murder of a defenceless woman in a tiny toilet at three in the morning."

Telegraph Feb 2013

Dolus directus. Disproved thus far.

<modsnip>

He's done as has been charged. He went towards danger with the intent to kill.

The person who was behind that door had a right to life and he didn't have the right to take it as there was no danger that existed that he could possibly fear.

 

[Carmelita]

The downstairs window being broken is not proof that Oscar was not hyper vigilant about his safety. He was well armed, the house was alarmed and the bedroom door was fortified. The window not being attended to would only weaken Oscar&#8217;s defense if there were not so much else pointing to his concerns about his personal safety, and not so many other tangible safety nets in place.

The condition of the window may be a defect in his verifiable diligence to personal safety but it certainly doesn&#8217;t nullify it.

 

[Viper]

The downstairs window being broken is not proof that Oscar was not hyper vigilant about his safety. He was well armed, the house was alarmed and the bedroom door was fortified. The window not being attended to would only weaken Oscar’s defense if there were not so much else pointing to his concerns about his personal safety, and not so many other tangible safety nets in place.

The condition of the window may be a defect in his verifiable diligence to personal safety but it certainly doesn’t nullify it.

BIB. Tell me more about these "fortified bedroom doors"... opcorn:

 

[Cherwell]

The downstairs window being broken is not proof that Oscar was not hyper vigilant about his safety. He was well armed, the house was alarmed and the bedroom door was fortified. The window not being attended to would only weaken Oscar&#8217;s defense if there were not so much else pointing to his concerns about his personal safety, and not so many other tangible safety nets in place.

The condition of the window may be a defect in his verifiable diligence to personal safety but it certainly doesn&#8217;t nullify it.

The unrepaired window is just one thing. There are various other things that suggest he wasn't as security-obsessed as he claims.

Ladders not put away
Window not locked or barred
Sleeping with open windows/doors to balcony
Failure to summon security
etc

Oh, and ... he doesn't remember disarming the alarm when coming down to open the front door. I think there's a real possibility that the alarm was never switched on at all that night.