Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[molly333]

There is plenty of scientific literature available on "instantaneous rigor" and "trismus" (locked jaw/clenching) to support the notion that Reeva's early jaw clenching was a direct result of the manner in which she died.

https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=ctrl&...ws_rd=cr#q=instantaneous+rigor+trismus&spell=

In fact there is at least one case report of rigor setting in on a patient BERFORE he/she died due to a severe vasoconstriction of the blood supply
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...5IHQAQ&usg=AFQjCNFU6VZL_ql5awTfzYlyFEB2oYFbsA

Thanks, Murphy!

 

[shane13]

Is it Dr Stipp's that was pretty sure he had heard two sets of gunshots because he had been an army medic or something like that or was that someone else ,I get confused after a while

Confusion may be part of the plan...

I have said herr I believe both sides' "versions" (on how and when of final shooting) are, or may be, [deliberately] wrong.

"This one runs deep."

 

[steveml]

[snipped]

Maybe I can shed some light.

Don't just focus on dying Reeva.
Use my "guilty man" logic above. OP--in front of others--is desperately putting on an act of trying to appear to save her. (Which an innocent man in the accident scenario would not be doing.)

So...he wanted Reeva dead so he shot her. Then he tried to make it look like he didn't want her dead by breaking the door and rescuing her.
Once rescued she was dead, so he thought he'd again make it look like he was trying to save her. But it was all a cover-up, as he wanted her dead anyway?

Have I got this right? :dunno:

 

[Murphys_Law]

Instantaneous rigor and trismus are not the same as rigor mortis. Trismus is lock jaw and yes, that's exactly what she had. From the moment of death I would speculate - not because a period of time had elapsed and rigor had set in, as Molly is stating.

We are in agreement.

 

[Jodi Bon Jovi]

from what i have read about his fear of intruders, to me he sounds like another zimmerman, just itching to pull the trigger.

sorry if it's been covered but does anyone know why he went back upstairs? any facts?

 

[soozieqtips]

Very good article here:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...m_medium=twitter&mbid=social_twitter&mobify=0

Excellent article and shows OP to be paranoid, but not about his safety - but about how everyone has lied and conspired against him. Couldn't agree more with this sentence:

"Pistorius persisted: “A woman did not scream at any point,” he said.
If didn’t happen from his perspective, it just didn't happen".

I think the fact he's steadfastly refused to concede on even the most obvious things, proves that he's not credible in any way, and when confronted with evidence that he's lying through his teeth, will still not show humility and admit 'Yes, it's possible I had my finger on the trigger'. I'm sure the Judge is keeping notes of his constant refusal to accept responsibility for anything, calling everyone else liars, and the incredulous tale of how he was almost shot at, but unbelievably doesn't recall who he called to pick him up or who took him to collect his car. I'd assume he called a close friend or a family member. Has anyone come forward to corroborate this story?? Thought not.

 

[sorrell skye]

Instantaneous rigor as muscle stiffening occurring in the moment of death (or cardiac arrest) can be confused with rigor mortis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21676574

 

[Freya1977]

Thanks, Murphy!

See my previous post. You aren't correct. She had trismus as a result of her manner of death, NOT rigor mortis.

 

[Freya1977]

We are in agreement.

I'm glad

 

[soozieqtips]

Roux and OP did spend a lot of time trying to convince the court that OP is a kind hearted man that rescues animals a brings them to health and happiness, and also, the pitbulls were so severely damaged by their prior inhuman treatment that they were in fact equal to rabbits in their ability to protect and alert their master. :facepalm:

BBM - same kind-hearted man who ran over a dog and then shot it in the back of the head (to put it out of its misery) without ever uttering a single word to the owner of the dog that he'd just killed, despite him being right there.

 

[shane13]

Instantaneous rigor and trismus are not the same as rigor mortis. Trismus is lock jaw and yes, that's exactly what she had. From the moment of death I would speculate - not because a period of time had elapsed and rigor had set in, as Molly is stating.



Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Hell, I have TMJ, and my jaw locks up now and then.
And I don't think I am dead yet...?

If I am posting and doing other things, I hope it means I am not dead yet, even if my jaw locks up.

 

[Freya1977]

Hell, I have TMJ, and my jaw locks up now and then.
And I don't think I am dead yet...?

If I am posting and doing other things, I hope it means I am not dead yet, even if my jaw locks up.

You better take your pulse to be sure!

 

[molly333]

I saw that, and also found that he based his opinion [at least in part] on the lack of blood in her mouth or airways.

Of course, I for one am dubious on his testimony, because S.A. Constitution does not say the people have freedom of the press--unless Oscar Pistorius victim's death evidence is being shown. And everyday in their courts, other cases with more gruesome photos are not blocked from full press coverage.

Getting back to time of death, I wonder how rigorous this matter really is?

E.g., President Kennedy suffered a head shot at circa 12:30, but wasn't declared dead till 1 PM. A massive wound and massive, massive loss of brain matter occurred, yet his heart did beat for half an hour afterwards. There are significant differences [and it must have been 5-10 minutes before he was put on a respirator or such], but still it points out that a massive brain shot does not of itself have to cause immediate heart stoppage.

If you think Kennedy's heart was beating after that head wound, I have a bridge to sell you.

The Pathologist says Reeva died instantly and the lack of blood at the scene confirms that.

So questions remain:

Time of death would be time of the shots fired. What time were the shots fired? Is this in dispute?

Did Oscar really think Reeva was still alive when doc shows up? Or is he faking it?

Did Oscar realize immediately that she was dead when he opened the door? If so, how does this explain his subsequent actions?

 

[Trooper]

from what i have read about his fear of intruders, to me he sounds like another zimmerman, just itching to pull the trigger.

sorry if it's been covered but does anyone know why he went back upstairs? any facts?

No!!....not yet!....but its getting close to it.. .. .hang in there.

 

[zwiebel]

Very good article here:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...m_medium=twitter&mbid=social_twitter&mobify=0

I think the writer has got the bit about Oscar driving the car that day wrong? I thought Darren/Derrin? was driving?

 

[shane13]

So...he wanted Reeva dead so he shot her. Then he tried to make it look like he didn't want her dead by breaking the door and rescuing her.
Once rescued she was dead, so he thought he'd again make it look like he was trying to save her. But it was all a cover-up, as he wanted her dead anyway?

Have I got this right? :dunno:

As you have snipped my post, w.o. even stating you did this, I willl not reply.
This is strictly against the rules.
And I also don't appreciate the sarcasm. That too is against the rules.

 

[Val1]

from what i have read about his fear of intruders, to me he sounds like another zimmerman, just itching to pull the trigger.

sorry if it's been covered but does anyone know why he went back upstairs? any facts?

Possibly to count his watches? ...

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Did OP testify that he was going to put them over the led lights or that he had ?
The reason this would be important is because sometimes I have put clothes on a smooth surface and they fall of a few seconds or minutes after .
They could have fallen off with movement in the room .
I know there is blood on the duvet so am trying to figure out a possible sequence for all these things collectively ,without success so far .

To me, he seemed to testify he did both. First saying he did, then saying he must have dropped them. Slipping off makes much more sense, but I don't think that was mentioned.

 

[Freya1977]

If you think Kennedy's heart was beating after that head wound, I have a bridge to sell you.

The Pathologist says Reeva died instantly and the lack of blood at the scene confirms that.

So questions remain:

Time of death would be time of the shots fired. What time were the shots fired? Is this in dispute?

Did Oscar really think Reeva was still alive when doc shows up? Or is he faking it?

Did Oscar realize immediately that she was dead when he opened the door? If so, how does this explain his subsequent actions?

Not everyone's heart stops beating the moment they receive a gunshot to the head. That's an undisputed fact. Plenty of people survive a gunshot to the head.

 

[Viper]

Towels make sense, but plastic bags make no sense to me. Someone on here said they did make sense, but didn't say how.

I don't believe I am that person that you speak of, but plastic bags in a crime scene are used to clean up and/or prevent the car seat or car trunk (boot) from getting blood stained when the body is moved.

Reeva was dead in the WC, her bleeding stopped in 2-3 seconds of receiving all of those horrific injuries, her right arm was for all intensive purposes amputated (bone and artery severed, very little tissue left connecting it to her torso), her hip and head had massive holes. If Reeva's heart had been pumping for even a minutes time the WC would have been flooded with massive amounts of blood flowing from the 5 massive holes in her body.