TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #4

[indicolite22]

The Defense's argument basically boils down to:

Yes, CD had an affair (which was a bad decision, but not illegal.) But erratic, unstable LVD and AC (and MG and DW) twisted CD's totally normal, run-of-the-mill LDS teachings to justify the murders that THEY committed, and then they tried to pin it all on poor, naïve CD (whose first wife totally died of natural causes... LE just tried to make that look like murder later because there wasn't enough evidence to connect him to the kids' deaths).

It is to the State's advantage, then, to avoid religious discussion altogether -- it would only muddy the waters. Because while CD's beliefs may not necessarily be taught-in-Sunday-School LDS theology, they definitely have their roots in LDS history and "deep doctrines," and a lot of these ideas have been circulated by prominent LDS groups and "personalities" (see also Jodi Hildebrandt, Ruby Franke, Julie Rowe, Thom Harrison, Maurice Harker, Tim Ballard, Preparing a People, AVOW, FIRM foundation, etc) and have not been denounced by mainstream LDS leadership. If CD was only repeating what others have said and written and taught before him, then he's not really at fault for how LVD carried them to their logical conclusion, is he?

So yeah, I'd say the State is holding back. They don't want the trial to be about wacky religious beliefs. They want it to be about what CD as an individual personally did, what he personally had to gain, and what he personally knew about where the children were and what had happened to them.

AFAIK, the historic beliefs didn't condone murder. If they did, other fringe leaders with similar doctrines would have been at it. Chad went a few steps further from appropriating old LDS beliefs by throwing in zombies that needed to be killed off.

 

[wnk]

AFAIK, the historic beliefs didn't condone murder. If they did, other fringe leaders with similar doctrines would have been at it. Chad went a few steps further from appropriating old LDS beliefs by throwing in zombies that needed to be killed off.

I was referring to doctrines like blood atonement, which was taught by leaders like Brigham Young:

Mormon Quotes on Blood Atonement

“The time has been in Israel under the law of God, the celestial law, or that which pertains to the celestial law, for it is one of the laws of that kingdom where our Father dwells, that if a man was found guilty of adultery, he must have his blood shed, and that is near at hand.”

www.mormonthink.com

 

[887sMtreme]

I think the jury is going to begin to feel insulted with lies.

By now, they probably are certain that the claim about the stairs was a lie, even if they disregarded or forgot the comment about Prior owning the house. Priors absurd introduction of Melanie Gibb into the narrative is similar to his bizarre insistence that the house has no stairs. They might be thinking, Prior says there were no stairs, and there are. Prior says Melanie Gibb is very important, but there were stairs. So why should we believe him about Melanie Gibb.

Never mind that there are three murders. Melanie Gibb is only a semi-viable introduction of reasonable doubt for one. (And IMO at best the doubt would be that there were actually more than 3 co-conspirators, not that Chad was not one of them. Even with Gibb's involvement, Chad is the leader.) Is Prior going to argue in closing statements that she came to Chads house and googled wind direction on Chad's phone, stayed the night, then texted Tammy about "fun times," on Tylee's burial day?

I do not think Prior is a smart dirty trickster at all. I would not want him on my team even if I wanted someone to play dirty. With the stairs thing, Prior could have had a win impeaching the witness by saying that the bedroom and the office were both on the same level, so Chad wouldn't have said stairs. Instead, that is forgotten, and all that is seared into the juries head is for some reason, Prior wanted the jury to believe the house did not have an upstairs, and that it is not true. Thus, Prior is a liar.

Priors deliberate bumbling of words is probably coming off patronizing and dishonest, too. The jurors know that Prior has been over the evidence longer than they have. They know that if they can learn new words, like lividity, like ward, like bishopric, during testimony, Prior can too, and should have already learned them in preparing. And somehow, his "mistakes" with the words they know he already is familiar with, even if he just learned them for this case, seem to sound like an insult.

Prior did not have a lot to work with in this trial. I don't see how he'd win if he were doing well. But I don't think he is doing well.

MOO

Please forgive my ignorance here. I thought I knew this case pretty well, but I’m missing the importance of the stairs/no stairs issue. Could you (or someone else) explain it, please?

 

[887sMtreme]

according to Emma, during her media interview, there is yet ANOTHER pet burial area. however, the property was surveyed for disturbances in the land. only Tylee and JJ's location were shown to have a changed landscape. and CD qualifying in that text WHERE he buried the raccoon, 'the pet cemetery'...that assisted LE where to start looking.

Emma said it as if to 'prove' her father told the truth in that text as if it discounts what LE DID find.

thank you goes out to AC for having his phone with him which led LE to check CD's property, and thank you to CD for providing LE with information that he shot a raccoon, buried it AND used the firepit, the day after Tylee was last seen AND on the same day AC was there. likewise for JJ: AC was on his property the day after JJ was last seen.

Man. It’s creepy to me that Chad’s family went through pets like they were garbage.

 

[indicolite22]

Man. It’s creepy to me that Chad’s family went through pets like they were garbage.

They also buried another raccoon previously, but not in the pet cemetery. It went onto the compost heap (according to court testimony).

 

[887sMtreme]

They also buried another raccoon previously, but not in the pet cemetery. It went onto the compost heap (according to court testimony).

It’s disgusting but people compost everything from dead rats to cattle. Farm/ranch life isn’t always pretty. But still…ugh! Anyway, that information makes Chad’s text about burying the raccoon even more suspicious.

 

[887sMtreme]

I was referring to doctrines like blood atonement, which was taught by leaders like Brigham Young:

Mormon Quotes on Blood Atonement

“The time has been in Israel under the law of God, the celestial law, or that which pertains to the celestial law, for it is one of the laws of that kingdom where our Father dwells, that if a man was found guilty of adultery, he must have his blood shed, and that is near at hand.”

www.mormonthink.com

I made the same connection.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I wish I could take credit for it, but it was brought up on a recent Mormon Stories podcast episode (#1889) with Lauren Matthias from Hidden True Crime and Megan Connor (LVD's cousin). The host, John Delin, had been asked by Prior to be an expert witness to explain how these beliefs were connected to the LDS church, but he declined. Lauren & Megan mention in response at one point that if the murders were based on CD's own belief system that he made up, then he's guilty bc he was the one calling the shots. If he was just regurgitating teachings of the mainstream LDS church, then the case against CD is weakened, because who was actually calling the shots then? The LDS church? Their president? Joseph Smith? It reduces CD's culpability.

Yes and there’s Julie Rowe and others that have those beliefs. I don’t suppose they’ve killed people. Maybe through the years there have been murders or human sacrifice for those kinds of beliefs.
I saw someone talking on a show who went to talk to Chad. He said Chad one hundred percent believes what he preaches and so does Lori. Maybe Prior is convinced Chad has deceived his own self. But for Prior to blame others for the murders is sick. I wish during closing one of the prosecutors would put the blame for the death of Charles Vallow on Chad.
Whether it’s the church and Joseph Smiths’ teachings or not. You had these five sick people carrying it out and one thing in common. They all believed what Chad told them. Those people were Lori, Alex, Melanie, Zulema and Chad. I believe Melanie and Zulema are part of the conspiracy in all the deaths and attempted murder of Brandon. I don’t know if Melanie or Zulema will be charged.
In the end, two were having sex. That’s Chad and Lori.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Please forgive my ignorance here. I thought I knew this case pretty well, but I’m missing the importance of the stairs/no stairs issue. Could you (or someone else) explain it, please?

Chad’s niece testified that at Tammy’s funeral Chad told different stories of how and when she died. Chad told her Tammy came downstairs and told him she was ill and was going back upstairs to bed.

When John Prior crossed her, he asked if she had ever been in their house. She said no.
He then tried to impeach her and make her look like a liar in front of the jury by asking “Are you aware theirs is a one story home?” She said no.

As it turns out, prosecutors have shown pictures of their home and Chad and Tammy added a back part to their home with a bedroom upstairs. So now, Prior is the liar and the jury knows it. I’m not sure why Priir did that. Guess he is trying to help his client not seem like the bold selfish murderer he is.

By the way, Prior knew all along there was an upstairs because he owns the house. Chad signed it over to Prior for payment.

 

[Spartygirl]

I watch when I get home from work at around 11. My cat and I settle down for lunch, and watch Courttv. I wish LVD's trial had been on video.

CD really should be watching his body language. Most of the time, he acts like he is above this. But he has appeared agitated at specific times. Especially during the testimony of the ME from Utah. CD looked like he wanted to bolt from the table. He definitely was stressed INMO during this testimony.

BBM
I swear he had a smile and Loin Fire going on --when they were showing him and LVD on the beach in Hawaii, dancing and kissing.

 

[887sMtreme]

Chad’s niece testified that at Tammy’s funeral Chad told different stories of how and when she died. Chad told her Tammy came downstairs and told him she was ill and was going back upstairs to bed.

When John Prior crossed her, he asked if she had ever been in their house. She said no.
He then tried to impeach her and make her look like a liar in front of the jury by asking “Are you aware theirs is a one story home?” She said no.

As it turns out, prosecutors have shown pictures of their home and Chad and Tammy added a back part to their home with a bedroom upstairs. So now, Prior is the liar and the jury knows it. I’m not sure why Priir did that. Guess he is trying to help his client not seem like the bold selfish murderer he is.

By the way, Prior knew all along there was an upstairs because he owns the house. Chad signed it over to Prior for payment.

OOOOH. I get it. Wow, that was a huge bungle on Prior’s part. Boo-hoo for Chad but I feel bad for the niece having been abused that way. Thank you for filling me in.

 

[887sMtreme]

Chad’s niece testified that at Tammy’s funeral Chad told different stories of how and when she died. Chad told her Tammy came downstairs and told him she was ill and was going back upstairs to bed.

When John Prior crossed her, he asked if she had ever been in their house. She said no.
He then tried to impeach her and make her look like a liar in front of the jury by asking “Are you aware theirs is a one story home?” She said no.

As it turns out, prosecutors have shown pictures of their home and Chad and Tammy added a back part to their home with a bedroom upstairs. So now, Prior is the liar and the jury knows it. I’m not sure why Priir did that. Guess he is trying to help his client not seem like the bold selfish murderer he is.

By the way, Prior knew all along there was an upstairs because he owns the house. Chad signed it over to Prior for payment.

OOOOH. I get it. Wow, that was a huge bungle on Prior’s part. Boo-hoo for Chad but I feel bad for the niece having been abused that way. Thank you for filling me in.

BTW, I do know about Prior taking Chad’s house (in awkward stages) as payment in lieu of cash after he’d blown through whatever Lolo left him with.

 

[mickey2942]

@Spartygirl thanks for the visual. NOT! But, the more they play the video of the wedding on the beach, the better.

MOO, this has nothing to do with religion, the LDS church, or anything else aside from two psychopaths who wanted cash for their "new" life. No kids, no divorce. Just cash.

CD is just Looney Tunes enough to make up some religious mumbo jumbo to make it justified.

I am just hoping that the jury goes with the DP. What really bothers me, is that CD is such a narcissist, he probably enjoys the attention and notoriety that he receives.

 

[Ruminations]

The Defense's argument basically boils down to:

Yes, CD had an affair (which was a bad decision, but not illegal.) But erratic, unstable LVD and AC (and MG and DW) twisted CD's totally normal, run-of-the-mill LDS teachings to justify the murders that THEY committed, and then they tried to pin it all on poor, naïve CD (whose first wife totally died of natural causes... LE just tried to make that look like murder later because there wasn't enough evidence to connect him to the kids' deaths).

It is to the State's advantage, then, to avoid religious discussion altogether -- it would only muddy the waters. Because while CD's beliefs may not necessarily be taught-in-Sunday-School LDS theology, they definitely have their roots in LDS history and "deep doctrines," and a lot of these ideas have been circulated by prominent LDS groups and "personalities" (see also Jodi Hildebrandt, Ruby Franke, Julie Rowe, Thom Harrison, Maurice Harker, Tim Ballard, Preparing a People, AVOW, FIRM foundation, etc) and have not been denounced by mainstream LDS leadership. If CD was only repeating what others have said and written and taught before him, then he's not really at fault for how LVD carried them to their logical conclusion, is he?

So yeah, I'd say the State is holding back. They don't want the trial to be about wacky religious beliefs. They want it to be about what CD as an individual personally did, what he personally had to gain, and what he personally knew about where the children were and what had happened to them.

Agree, for the most part. There is nothing illegal about any belief, mainstream or "deep" or whackadoodle.

If you believe kids and adults can become possessed and the only way to release their souls is to kill them- you believe that. And the belief isn't illegal no matter where it came from- and if it is taught in Sunday school or not.

It's the murderers that are illegal.

But the sex and money are not the whole motivation for Chad. The power of being a visionary and a prophet is a big motive.

More, the belief system gives the murders a narrative. The belief system puts the whole story together. It explains a lot of the crucial evidence, like the scripture fight when Melanie confronted Lori, the James and Elena story, how the zombie texts showed intent to murder.

The zombie aspect is one where the jury really has to understand the whole system of belief. Otherwise, calling a person a zombie sounds more strange and rude, and less like evidence of premeditation. The same goes for the light and dark ratings.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Because Alex had his Google location turned on when the children were buried, his positioning was more precise than Chad's or Lori's, whose general locations were mostly determined from cell tower data. All three used their phones to contact one another during the mornings in question.

I have a theory that Lori and Chad never suggested Akex turn off location services deliberately, figuring that he'd be the last investigated, being he had very weak motive. And, if things got "hot" for Chad and Lori, they could point to Alex as the murderer.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Please forgive my ignorance here. I thought I knew this case pretty well, but I’m missing the importance of the stairs/no stairs issue. Could you (or someone else) explain it, please?

Prior was trying to impeach a witness who testified that Chad gave differing accounts of Tammy's death.

The stories differed primarily in whether Chad went to bed with Tammy or not. However, they also mentioned going up and diwnstairs. Chances are, Chad had not put stairs in his different versions of the story, but the witness believed he had mentioned stairs in both versions.

Prior tried to rattle the witness by saying there are no stairs in the house, which is false. The witness was not rattled to the point to take back her recollection.

And it is clear Prior lied about the stairs.

MOO

 

[887sMtreme]

Prior was trying to impeach a witness who testified that Chad gave differing accounts of Tammy's death.

The stories differed primarily in whether Chad went to bed with Tammy or not. However, they also mentioned going up and diwnstairs. Chances are, Chad had not put stairs in his different versions of the story, but the witness believed he had mentioned stairs in both versions.

Prior tried to rattle the witness by saying there are no stairs in the house, which is false. The witness was not rattled to the point to take back her recollection.

And it is clear Prior lied about the stairs.

MOO

Thanks for that explanation!

 

[Love Never Fails]

@Spartygirl thanks for the visual. NOT! But, the more they play the video of the wedding on the beach, the better.

MOO, this has nothing to do with religion, the LDS church, or anything else aside from two psychopaths who wanted cash for their "new" life. No kids, no divorce. Just cash.

CD is just Looney Tunes enough to make up some religious mumbo jumbo to make it justified.

I am just hoping that the jury goes with the DP. What really bothers me, is that CD is such a narcissist, he probably enjoys the attention and notoriety that he receives.

I didn’t see them play the video. All I saw was the pictures they introduced. I might have missed it but I was waiting for the video. Videos have such an impact.

 

[Kudzu]

I didn’t see them play the video. All I saw was the pictures they introduced. I might have missed it but I was waiting for the video. Videos have such an impact.

Agree. Such a lovely, perfect wedding mere days after Tammy’s death... And how long does it take to plan a wedding anyway? It took me months. For a private local wedding, not a destination one. I hope the prosecution has documentation of all the timing of the preplanning involved beyond the purchase of the malachite rings and wedding clothes. When exactly was this wedding booked? Before the pulmonary embolism? And yes, I would love to see them play that wedding video! Not one trace of sorrow.

 

[Pruddennce]

I have a theory that Lori and Chad never suggested Akex turn off location services deliberately, figuring that he'd be the last investigated, being he had very weak motive. And, if things got "hot" for Chad and Lori, they could point to Alex as the murderer.

MOO

very likely. CD and LV were extremely careful with their phones most times...well all zillion of them. too many phones to enumerate. IIRC AC had a couple of phones left behind and had at least 6 different phone numbers during a specified time.. but interesting the one phone that placed him on CD's property was the one with active geo on it.

what was the significance of MelaniB having laid out on her unit's kitchen counter the credit cards and vehicle license for Brandon???? where was she when the search warrant was executed? were these cards active and was it a current vehicle license? when did she leave that unit for good?