TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

[indicolite22]

Evidently Prior objects to decomp description by Det Ray Hermosillo….

I hope the neighbor takes the stand to talk about all the fires Chad had on his property.

Chad Daybell lit bonfires where children’s remains were found: neighbor

Chad Daybell had massive bonfires on his Idaho property last fall — in the same area where the remains of his two stepchildren were found, his neighbor said Thursday. Matthew Price, who lives acros…

nypost.com

MOO

I don't know how will later fires be relevant for the case, now that we know when the children were buried. We haven't seen any eyewitness testimony about the fire on September 9.

 

[Ruminations]

Lauren from Hidden True Crime has suggested she thinks Pryor is going to suggest the police are framing Chad. After today's cross I believe she is right.
Never did it occur to me that Chad's defense would have the gall to suggest that somehow Chad did not know Jj and Tylee were buried on his property AND the police are trying to frame him.
I feel as if I have slipped into an alternate reality of stupidity.

It interests me that Chad, Prior, and the detectives Herm, Stubbs, Hope et al., all know that Chad is related by marriage to det. Hope. It was when Hope walked up, Chad gave Lori's phone number. Hope is likely why he answered the question of Lori's phone number the second time. Chad appeared to think that his in-law would have more knowledge about him (such as of his marriage) then detectives who were "lead" on looking for JJ.

I wonder if Hope was just along because they needed a few more detectives, and was less briefed.

I wonder if Hope is going to be identified as part of the alleged conspiracy against Chad.

I don't think this defense or the harlot defense will fly. Even with a misogynistic juror. Even with an extremely skeptical-of-government juror. Because even the misogynistic juror will recognize that killing is not okay no matter how "whipped." And the skeptics will have plenty of non governmental witnesses to things like, Tammy was not sick.

But I am also intrigued by Lauren's theories, and I can't wait to see if Det. Hope plays a role in the defense theory. Because that brings family into the conspiracy. How many family members will Chad expect his children to turn their backs on?

MOO

 

[aafromaa]

I don’t think JP is going to get very far trying to say CD is innocent of crimes committed by AC/LVD before CD met them. Isn’t that a little like trying to say Bonnie wasn’t involved in the crimes she committed with Clyde because he was already a criminal when she met him?

 

[aafromaa]

I don't know how will later fires be relevant for the case, now that we know when the children were buried. We haven't seen any eyewitness testimony about the fire on September 9.

I don’t think we need an eyewitness for the fire on the 9th since CD text TD about it. As for the fires later that fall, I think it’s relevant because it shows CD was trying to further destroy evidence he knew was there.

 

[SteveS]

Lauren from Hidden True Crime has suggested she thinks Pryor is going to suggest the police are framing Chad. After today's cross I believe she is right.
Never did it occur to me that Chad's defense would have the gall to suggest that somehow Chad did not know Jj and Tylee were buried on his property AND the police are trying to frame him.
I feel as if I have slipped into an alternate reality of stupidity.

This is the obvious defense, and in one way of looking at things, it's even "possible" to be true.

A lot of things would have to line up, that we who saw the 1st trial don't accept. BUT - it's easy for us to forget the "facts" that the prosec offered in Lori's trial were barely challenged, and more importantly the prosec offered their own "spin" on things being said, without being challenged on hearsay, facts not in evidence, and just pure opinion. If such things actually have to be proved and subjected to the rules of evidence, will they stand up to that scrutiny? Or will they yield some different possibilities? We don't know yet.

Chad's obvious slant on things is going to be
1 Lori - and her hitman Alex - were killers, who killed long before he knew her, but he had no clue that's who she was. To him, she was just a beautiful girl who really got his attention, and pursued him.
2 He sincerely believed Tammy would not live to an old age, and that he would have to deal with that when it happened.
3 His words to LVD were his lust being satisfied, not about people being killed. LE's spin on those words is nonsense. He never planned for anyone to be killed, nor did he participate, nor expect it.
4 He had no idea they were killing kids, and was duped into believing they had been sent away and were safe somewhere.
5 He had nothing to do with the kids being buried on his property, and learned about it when LE found them.
6 He had no idea Alex was trying to kill Tammy, nor did he have anything to do with it. Lori wanted him single, and sent Alex to do that.
7 Tammy died because of a medical condition, as the original coroner said, and the idea he killed her is based on LE's contrived speculation not facts.

So far, we have dead kids, found on CD's property, but no evidence who put them there. We have Tammy being shot at, maybe by a paintball gun, but Chad didn't do that either. We have the door opened to Lori/Alex being killers long before Chad ever knew her.

If we, like this new jury has to do, look at THIS TRIAL's evidence in isolation, and as it unfolds, and see what things look like when ideas are challenged by the defense and when the prosec is limited by the rules of evidence (with vigorous objections, and deletions, when they don't), it will be interesting to see where it takes us. I suspect it will all look the same, but the defense was passive when presenting this stuff in LVD trial. We don't know what we don't know.

 

[Ruminations]

I don’t think JP is going to get very far trying to say CD is innocent of crimes committed by AC/LVD before CD met them. Isn’t that a little like trying to say Bonnie wasn’t involved in the crimes she committed with Clyde because he was already a criminal when she met him?

IKR? So....she's bad and he was hanging with her.

Show me your friends....

PS: I don't think Chad needed Lori to be abusive to Tammy and a cheater in marriage and grifter in business. He entered the relationship bad. My point (agreeing with yours) is just, how is "I chose the company of a killer," a winning defense?

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I don’t think we need an eyewitness for the fire on the 9th since CD text TD about it. As for the fires later that fall, I think it’s relevant because it shows CD was trying to further destroy evidence he knew was there.

If he could explain what he was burning, then the fires might not be seen as odd. Evidence was still found in the fire pit.

 

[wnk]

STATE OF IDAHO V CHAD GUY DAYBELL

---

W APRIL 10, 2024 (video, live update feed)

INDICTMENT
Count I: Conspiracy to commit first degree murder and grand theft by deception (Tylee)
Count II: First degree murder (Tylee)
Count III: Conspiracy to commit first degree murder and grand theft by deception (JJ)
Count IV: First degree murder (JJ)
Count V: Conspiracy to commit first degree murder (Tammy)
Count VI: First degree murder (Tammy)
Count VII: Grand theft (Tylee & JJ’s social security benefits)
Count VIII: Insurance fraud (LifeMap Assurance Co)
Count IX: Insurance fraud (Primerica Life Insurance Co)

ROB WOOD: STATE ATTNY
Opening Statement: “Two dead children buried in Chad Daybell’s backyard… His desire for sex, money and power led...to the deaths of his wife and two innocent children."

JOHN PRIOR: DEFENSE ATTNY
Opening Statement: “What’s important are facts and evidence.”

1a - LT RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg Idaho PD detective
[1-4 NOV 2019] - surveillance of Jeep’s location at 565 Pioneer Rd, Rexburg;
[26 NOV 2019] - welfare check on JJ: CD said he didn’t know LVD well, didn’t have her number, and had last seen JJ in Oct
[27 NOV 2019] - search warrant on apartments 175 (Lori’s - seized Risperidone Rx, weapons, storage unit contract, Halloween mask), 174 (Melani’s - seized cash), 107 (vacant), storage unit
[24 JAN 2020] - search warrants in Hawaii on condo (no sign of children) & rental car
[8 SEP 2019] - Yellowstone photo = final “proof of life” for Tylee
[22 SEP 2019] - couch photo = final “proof of life” for JJ
[19 OCT 2019] - Tammy Daybell’s death, prompting investigation in Fremont Co
[3 JAN 2020] - search warrant at CD’s house
[9 JUN 2020] - search warrant at CD’s house, discovery of Tylee & JJ’s bodies

---

Th APR 11, 2024 (video, live update feed)

1b - LT RAY HERMOSILLO: STATE WITNESS, Rexburg Idaho PD detective
[9 JUN 2020] - search warrant at CD’s house, discovery of Tylee & JJ’s bodies, autopsy
[9 OCT 2019] - Tammy Daybell shot by what looked like paintball gun at her home
[11 JUL 2019] - Charles Vallow shot by Alex Cox in AZ
[2 OCT 2019] - attempted homicide of Brandon Bordeaux

DEFENSE X-EXAM:
inappropriate for law enforcement to inject personal opinions into investigation;
body cameras not used during interviews with CD;
Tammy’s FB states she thought she was shot by paintball gun;
CD has not been charged in death of Charles Vallow or shooting of Brandon Bordeaux
[NOV 2019] - CD traveled to California, then Hawaii;
[22 SEP 2019] - LVD, Melanie Gibb, and David Warwick were podcasting, AC brought JJ home that evening;
[4 JUN 2020] - interviewed Melanie Gibb and David Warwick

STATE REDIRECT:
[26 NOV 2019] - CD was with AC during welfare check and did not seem afraid of him

 

[Ruminations]

Yeah, everybody is out to get poor Chad. He must have instilled into his children not to trust the authorities.

I feel really bad for them, if that is true. Where do they turn when they need help they can trust?

It's all fun and games when you are sticking your tongue out at intrusive press, but when your world whittles out co-workers, extended family, government on the offensive while your mother is dead and your father is in jail and you have a young family to raise.... it can't be easy. I really can't imagine being E. or any of them.

I know people would support them. But it also seems like Chad won't let them accept the support.

 

[Cedars]

I guess now we really see how the kids are clinging to their dad's innocence: He was FRAMED!

You have no evidence for that, why are you hating on the kids?

The defense attorney is making those suggestions in order to try to introduce reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors. It has nothing to do with what his children believe or don't believe.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

I don’t think JP is going to get very far trying to say CD is innocent of crimes committed by AC/LVD before CD met them. Isn’t that a little like trying to say Bonnie wasn’t involved in the crimes she committed with Clyde because he was already a criminal when she met him?

The defense doesn't have to prove innocence, they only have to introduce reasonable doubt.

JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

Do we know on what grounds Chad was allowed a separate trial?

Was it not to do with Loris mental health and the fact that it slowed down her trial timetable but if they had waited for Lori to be competent it would deny Chad the right to a speedy trial. Or, was it he waived his right and she didn’t?

 

[orchidaceaes]

Thanks for everyone posting who keep us who can’t watch updated. I want to see (even more) justice for the victims but can’t tune in.
I agree with fellow posters that I don’t remember hearing such graphic details about the bodies from LV’s trial. I was tearing up reading about JJ. It is clear now that he was fighting for his life. I was reviewing the case while jury selection was happening and certain details were not included in those articles and podcasts.

I feel really bad for them, if that is true. Where do they turn when they need help they can trust?

It's all fun and games when you are sticking your tongue out at intrusive press, but when your world whittles out co-workers, extended family, government on the offensive while your mother is dead and your father is in jail and you have a young family to raise.... it can't be easy. I really can't imagine being E. or any of them.

I know people would support them. But it also seems like Chad won't let them accept the support.

I also feel bad for CD's kids. It is very common for the family of criminal defendants to not believe they are capable of any wrongdoing at all when it is obvious they committed the crime they are accused of. I’ve seen this in all types of cases, from low-level drug charges to this one. For CD's kids, though, accepting that their dad is a murderer shakes their whole belief system. He raised them in his fringe beliefs, they believed he was a great prophet who was chosen by God, CD and his special status are core to their entire worldview.

 

[aafromaa]

The defense doesn't have to prove innocence, they only have to introduce reasonable doubt.

JMO

Agreed…and I shouldn’t have said it that way…I should have said I don’t think it is reasonable to doubt he was involved just because AC/LVD were already criminals when he met them. My bad

 

[Cedars]

Was it not to do with Loris mental health and the fact that it slowed down her trial timetable but if they had waited for Lori to be competent it would deny Chad the right to a speedy trial. Or, was it he waived his right and she didn’t?

There was new DNA evidence in March/23, 1 month before the joint trial was about to start. Lori had requested a speedy trial, Chad had waived it, so they severed.

Lori and Chad Daybell trials officially separated; April 3 trial date vacated for Chad Daybell

District Judge Steven Boyce has severed the case of Chad and Lori Daybell. Two trials will now be held.

www.kivitv.com

Evidently, that new DNA evidence relates to Chad, not to Lori, and so probably to do with the murder of the children.

JMO

 

[Ruminations]

This is the obvious defense, and in one way of looking at things, it's even "possible" to be true.

A lot of things would have to line up, that we who saw the 1st trial don't accept. BUT - it's easy for us to forget the "facts" that the prosec offered in Lori's trial were barely challenged, and more importantly the prosec offered their own "spin" on things being said, without being challenged on hearsay, facts not in evidence, and just pure opinion. If such things actually have to be proved and subjected to the rules of evidence, will they stand up to that scrutiny? Or will they yield some different possibilities? We don't know yet.

Chad's obvious slant on things is going to be
1 Lori - and her hitman Alex - were killers, who killed long before he knew her, but he had no clue that's who she was. To him, she was just a beautiful girl who really got his attention, and pursued him.
2 He sincerely believed Tammy would not live to an old age, and that he would have to deal with that when it happened.
3 His words to LVD were his lust being satisfied, not about people being killed. LE's spin on those words is nonsense. He never planned for anyone to be killed, nor did he participate, nor expect it.
4 He had no idea they were killing kids, and was duped into believing they had been sent away and were safe somewhere.
5 He had nothing to do with the kids being buried on his property, and learned about it when LE found them.
6 He had no idea Alex was trying to kill Tammy, nor did he have anything to do with it. Lori wanted him single, and sent Alex to do that.
7 Tammy died because of a medical condition, as the original coroner said, and the idea he killed her is based on LE's contrived speculation not facts.

So far, we have dead kids, found on CD's property, but no evidence who put them there. We have Tammy being shot at, maybe by a paintball gun, but Chad didn't do that either. We have the door opened to Lori/Alex being killers long before Chad ever knew her.

If we, like this new jury has to do, look at THIS TRIAL's evidence in isolation, and as it unfolds, and see what things look like when ideas are challenged by the defense and when the prosec is limited by the rules of evidence (with vigorous objections, and deletions, when they don't), it will be interesting to see where it takes us. I suspect it will all look the same, but the defense was passive when presenting this stuff in LVD trial. We don't know what we don't know.

Interesting. Not sure how the haughtiness in the defense serves, then. No matter how hot Lori is or how intrusive government is, there are dead children and a a dead mother.

I think it's not going to be a winning play. I don't think there is one. The apparent defense really just confirms the prosecutions theory for the most part. The only changes are Tammy died naturally and Chad was not part of murdering Tylee and JJ.

Suggesting LE is framing him by exhuming Tammy and investigating her death, or for investigating him "just" because the victims were buried outside his window is suggesting he was and is being persecuted by level-whatever evil forces. The framed-from-the-start defense just confirms that the man in the text messages hasn't changed. He still agrees with what he espoused then, there are evil forces trying to attack Chad because chad's so special. Of course anyone trying to stop Chad from his mission was evil then, and is still evil now.

Admitting to the whole fantasy while denying criminal involvement doesn't work for me as well as showing change.

The man in the text messages is very dark. If he's going to claim it was all a game to get the trophy wife, he woukd have to start showing that he sees how dangerous the game could be, and show some emotion for the dead children. At least shed a fake tear or two. Instead, the defenses attitude is haughty and superior. Chad does have a "so humble" act. He should pull it out now for better chances, IMO.

(Not that I am pushing for acquittal.)

MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

Wait until he gets to MG. He'll be in full bully mode. He needs to watch his blood pressure. This will be a long trial.

I’ll be impressed if he keeps this up all the way through trial. He’s got to run out of steam eventually.

 

[Nikynoo]

There was new DNA evidence in March/23, 1 month before the joint trial was about to start. Lori had requested a speedy trial, Chad had waived it, so they severed.

Lori and Chad Daybell trials officially separated; April 3 trial date vacated for Chad Daybell

District Judge Steven Boyce has severed the case of Chad and Lori Daybell. Two trials will now be held.

www.kivitv.com

Evidently, that new DNA evidence relates to Chad, not to Lori, and so probably to do with the murder of the children.

JMO

Thank you! I knew it had something to do with speedy trial and waivers but totally forgot about the DNA.

 

[Ruminations]

Oh, I agree with you.

My point was that in mainstream LDS, talking about having visions or foresight of a kind is probably more accepted and normalised than in the general population, and that makes its members potentially more vulnerable to abuse and manipulation by people like the defendant. Especially with the mainstream doctrine's emphasis on preparedness for the second coming.

MOO

lol, preparing for the second coming is right in the name.

But I think the food storage thing was more about Mormon history of fleeing the USA to parts west (before they were the USA) and relying on crops and weather for survival. All while being persecuted and having little interest in reaching out for help to non-Mormon's who could and would abuse their vulnerability.

I think preppers and cults conflated the cultural/historical preparedness needs for survival with the spiritual preparedness for the second coming.

Not an expert. MOO.

 

[Nikynoo]

That is what I believe happened...a real gun that misfired.

This and the fact that Alex missed BB makes me wonder whether Alex had a hand in any of the killings.