Trial - Ross Harris #3

[yupikgirl]

Even if his head wasn't "inches over the seat" it was probably still visible simply due to how tall he was. Even rear facing you can see your child when you look back or sometimes parts of them in the mirror. Not straight on but you see parts of them. Only when my kids were infants did they sit so low in the seat was it hard to see them- if at all. It's not just his height that makes you see him he wasn't flat on the seat. He protruded outward IMO. The seat doesn't encase him LOL


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[JudyBolton]

I always thought that a jury is to only use the evidence given to them in court. Sure they can use their life experiences to decide if the evidence shows guilt or not.

I do believe that sometimes jurors do things that their not supposed to in deciding a defendants guilt. I'm not sure what your husbands profession has to do with this. He's not the one posting. LOL. JMO.

Because I have spent 27 years hearing him discuss juror selection strategy. I have heard him agonize about how "the average citizen" would see X Y or Z - as in what implications they would take from a certain thing the client did or said or even the way they dressed. (yes, I saw your LOL - just my argumentative nature that cannot let it go :laughing::blowkiss:

 

[Cardinal47]

Hi, to a lot of people think making 60k a year is having good money. A lot of households with both parents working don't even make that much. JRH made above the median income with his job alone. IMO they probably saw him as an older, successful man who drove a nice car and felt flattered he even gave them the time of day. Almost every one of the young women testifying appears to have low self esteem or was willing to take love/attention where they could get it. I am less judgemental about them because their situation is just sad. They are young and they have no life experience and possibly come from households of abuse or neglect. Their mistakes will haunt them forever and people will judge them more harshly then they will ever judge JRH for leaving his kid in the car.

On the other hand, JRH was a thirty four year old married father who should have known better. He was beyond the age of youthful mistakes. By taking vows of marriage, he had responsibility to stay faithful to his wife or at least divorce her before going out and messing with barely legal teenagers.

Listening to Vinnie on 11 he thinks Ross wasn't much of a girl magnet. How he discovered Kik and Whisper I don't know but Vinnie seems to think once that door was opened Ross forgot everything and everybody. He was like a 14 year old school boy discovering boobies for the first time.

I personally find it extremely far fetched that Cooper fell asleep in that 1-3 min. However, regardless of whether he was asleep or awake doesn't change my opinion that the biggest issue is the proximity of RH to Cooper in his car seat in that vehicle. Again RH is a large person, the vehicle is rather small, the seat and Cooper were inches from his body, AND I would almost think that his shoulder/arm would push against the car seat side as he leaned over to his right to get his briefcase from the passenger side.
I don't know. We can all make our case about how strongly we feel about this one way or another. It will be up to the jury. I think there will be *much* discussion on this point in the jury room.


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I agree he knew he was there all day long. Personally MOO is that he drove to the shopping center with a dead Cooper in the car because he didn't want to show his A.. in front of his co workers. They know him and they would know his tearless wailing meant nothing.

I don't see it as being super helpful for the defense to focus on his hearing issues. I know two people with severe hearing loss, one is a parent and one is a grandparent. BOTH of them spend a lot of time actually LOOKING AT THEIR CHILDREN. If you have a deficit or a disability then you need to do something to compensate for it. So only having hearing in the left ear is not a valid excuse. IMO

I don't think he wore a hearing aid and I will be curious to see if they bring any kind of hearing specialist doctor to testify as to how bad it was. I have been watching him during trial. He listens and speaks to attorneys on both sides of himself with no trouble at all. He doesn't turn his hear more on his right hand side hearing loss as some tend to do. Watching how one does in the courtroom is telling too. He hears just fine!

True, but that would not negate the NEGLIGENCE on his part, imo. If a parent has a disability then it is their responsibility to compensate for it in caring for their child. jmo

Agreed.

Do we know yet is Ross Harris is going to take the stand? Or do you think his defence attorney's have advised against it.

Most of the talk shows don't think he should. He is very unlikeable and most don't think he would benefit from being put on the stand.

Yes, and also all of Cooper's teachers have testified he was an outgoing and talkative child.

Their testimony is evidence admitted into court. Nobody here is making up anything, though I think anyone paying attention to the trial would see that for themselves.

It is only logical that Cooper was wide awake and talking since footage from Chik-Fil-A shows him as alert and squirming around, and he said "school" as JRH was buckling him in. It's highly unlikely Cooper fell asleep, especially at his age. It's not a far reaching guess, it's logical conclusion.

I don't think he fell asleep either in that short amount of time given that according to testimony Cooper woke up early. About 5am and Ross took him to their bed. He fell back asleep and was put into his bed. Woke up and was dressed and taken to CF.

Does anybody happen to know why Ross Harris has no support in the courtroom? I find that very strange. I have seen those committing the worst of crimes having family support. Think Arias and Anthony to name two.

 

[just the facts pls]

Even if his head wasn't "inches over the seat" it was probably still visible simply due to how tall he was. Even rear facing you can see your child when you look back or sometimes parts of them in the mirror. Not straight on but you see parts of them. Only when my kids were infants did they sit so low in the seat was it hard to see them- if at all. It's not just his height that makes you see him he wasn't flat on the seat. He protruded outward IMO. The seat doesn't encase him LOL


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I really hope they bring in a doll or some kind of demonstration to show where Cooper's head would be, but I think you bring up a lot of good points, too. Cooper was too big for his car seat, so at the very least the top of his head would have been immediately visible even if it weren't protruding over the top. Photographic evidence shows JRH kept his briefcase on the floor of the right side passenger seat, so all JRH would have to do to prevent his "greatest fear" from coming true was to reach for his briefcase.

 

[RANCH]

If the State can somehow show to the jury that Cooper was in fact making noise, Ross Harris heard him and purposely left him in the car, they will be able to prove malice.

I'm not sure how they can prove that Cooper made any noise and if he did, that RH was able to hear it. JMO

 

[RANCH]

Because I have spent 27 years hearing him discuss juror selection strategy. I have heard him agonize about how "the average citizen" would see X Y or Z - as in what implications they would take from a certain thing the client did or said or even the way they dressed. (yes, I saw your LOL - just my argumentative nature that cannot let it go :laughing::blowkiss:

I wasn't talking about jury selection but I do agree with what your husband say's about it.

 

[Cardinal47]

Even if his head wasn't "inches over the seat" it was probably still visible simply due to how tall he was. Even rear facing you can see your child when you look back or sometimes parts of them in the mirror. Not straight on but you see parts of them. Only when my kids were infants did they sit so low in the seat was it hard to see them- if at all. It's not just his height that makes you see him he wasn't flat on the seat. He protruded outward IMO. The seat doesn't encase him LOL

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Hummm I thought Cooper was 30lbs and had outgrown the car seat he was in his last morning alive. His regular car seat was in Leanne's car ready for a trip she and Cooper were taking. I thought Cooper's head was way above the top of the car seat.

 

[Hope4More]

If the State can somehow show to the jury that Cooper was in fact making noise, Ross Harris heard him and purposely left him in the car, they will be able to prove malice.

I'm not sure how they can prove that Cooper made any noise and if he did, that RH was able to hear it. JMO

What they are likely to hear is testimony by Leanna that it was typical for Cooper to fall asleep quickly in the car (some kids do, it really isn't that uncommon), and that she knew Cooper was unusually tired that morning because he hadn't slept well the previous two nights.

 

[Cardinal47]

If the State can somehow show to the jury that Cooper was in fact making noise, Ross Harris heard him and purposely left him in the car, they will be able to prove malice.

I'm not sure how they can prove that Cooper made any noise and if he did, that RH was able to hear it. JMO

Humm. Didn't the one he was sexting with that morning testify already? Nobody asked her if she heard Cooper?

 

[Cardinal47]

What they are likely to hear is testimony by Leanna that it was typical for Cooper to fall asleep quickly in the car (some kids do, it really isn't that uncommon), and that she knew Cooper was unusually tired that morning because he hadn't slept well the previous two nights.

But as I wrote earlier Cooper woke up early but went back to sleep that morning so he would have been wide awake those few minuted before Ross abandoned him in the hot car.

 

[just the facts pls]

Listening to Vinnie on 11 he thinks Ross wasn't much of a girl magnet. How he discovered Kik and Whisper I don't know but Vinnie seems to think once that door was opened Ross forgot everything and everybody. He was like a 14 year old school boy discovering boobies for the first time.

Ah, no. If JRH himself was in his late teens or early twenties, I might have agreed. JRH was a thirty four year old married father who was far beyond the age of immature selfishness and impulsive choices. He was a grown man with a college degree, a full time job, a family, and adult responsibilities. Comparing him to a fourteen year old is kind of insulting. JRH knew full well what he was doing and that it was wrong, and the long list of witnesses brought to the stand show that he chose those apps to target barely legal teenagers and even some underage girls.

This is the kind of "boys will be boys" attitude I've talked about before. The presumption that JRH can't be held responsible because he is too stupid, immature, or incapable of competence doesn't hold up in the face of all the evidence shown in court. JRH was a reasonably intelligent man who admits to taking risks and not having a conscience. If JRH were someone from a trailer park or the ghetto nobody would have a problem throwing the book at him.

 

[just the facts pls]

I don't think he fell asleep either in that short amount of time given that according to testimony Cooper woke up early. About 5am and Ross took him to their bed. He fell back asleep and was put into his bed. Woke up and was dressed and taken to CF.

Also there is footage from Chik-Fil-A that shows Cooper was wide awake and squirming around so much JRH had to keep shifting him from side to side.

 

[Cardinal47]

Ah, no. If JRH himself was in his late teens or early twenties, I might have agreed. JRH was a thirty four year old married father who was far beyond the age of immature selfishness and impulsive choices. He was a grown man with a college degree, a full time job, a family, and adult responsibilities. Comparing him to a fourteen year old is kind of insulting. JRH knew full well what he was doing and that it was wrong, and the long list of witnesses brought to the stand show that he chose those apps to target barely legal teenagers and even some underage girls.

This is the kind of "boys will be boys" attitude I've talked about before. The presumption that JRH can't be held responsible because he is too stupid, immature, or incapable of competence doesn't hold up in the face of all the evidence shown in court. JRH was a reasonably intelligent man who admits to taking risks and not having a conscience. If JRH were someone from a trailer park or the ghetto nobody would have a problem throwing the book at him.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying what the 'boys club' was talking about and agreeing to on the talk show. Ross was getting sexual with young girls. Both liking it. Something he had never before experienced in his life. He acted like it was the first time for him in a candy store and he could not get enough! He didn't give a hoot who was young , old fat or skinny. Just show him your boobies and meet for car sex!

 

[Hope4More]

Humm. Didn't the one he was sexting with that morning testify already? Nobody asked her if she heard Cooper?

RH wasn't sexting on the way to CFA, while at CFA, or between the time he left CFA and arrived at work.

He sent 3 brief texts (or whatever, on Whisper), probably when he was at a red light, at the intersection when he should have been turning left. Not sure how Ms.X would have been able to hear Cooper, even if she was still paying attention to their exchange, which, imo, was unlikely, since about 6 minutes had passed since the previous "text" when RH sent the 3.

 

[RANCH]

What they are likely to hear is testimony by Leanna that it was typical for Cooper to fall asleep quickly in the car (some kids do, it really isn't that uncommon), and that she knew Cooper was unusually tired that morning because he hadn't slept well the previous two nights.

That would be some very relevant and powerful testimony for me.

I'm a middle age guy who never had any kids so I have to go with testimony like that to help me out. I have a hard time believing that all kids act exactly the same at a given age. Or that they act the same exact way every morning.

So testimony from someone who would know the most about a child would carry more weight for me. The State will get to cross examine Leanna and see if she is a credible witness about Cooper's habit's. JMO

 

[momoftwocrazies]

I just have to say I love this website. I love hearing all your smart and interesting perspectives. What I try to do is watch the testimony first, mull it over and then come here to see what you guys have come up with. Having said that, I was totally amazed that an overwhelming majority of you think the interview video makes you feel he's guilty.

A few thoughts: is it true that Cooper had life insurance? I've never heard of that ever before, why would a child have it? Why is this not admitted evidence? Should be illegal, IMO.

I actually find his behavior, and Leanna's, in the interview room pretty legit. To me his grief seems sincere, swinging from shock and staring to vocal sobs. I can see how one might not feel comfortable dealing with this outside of his home, especially not In a police station in which you might be arrested, so his behavior doesn't seem cold. The way he can't sit still, he paces, etc, nothing feels comfortable. While watching, I really tried to put myself in his position and I actually felt for him. Some of you mentioned the fact that he's screaming My Boy etc, I don't think that's weird. Even if he knew he was being watched, I'm sure he did, He doesn't want to appear cold, I could see feeling like you're going to be scrutinized.

When the two were together, I felt they were both sincere. Leanna clearly is the one that makes things ok, probably because Ross is a mental child. I think he must have been in such total shock that comforting him might have felt like a diversion from the tragedy. The way they handle business of Ross's job, calling people, dealing with the car does not seem staged but really off the cuff. Maybe dealing with these things felt like a diversion as well. The fact that he was concerned with being arrested, IMO, doesn't seem crazy to me. Her reaction as well. Who would want to grieve the loss alone in jail? The receipt looks to me to just be a regular action to make, he hasn't been under investigation for very long so tossing it wouldn't feel criminal. The fact that he talked about being in law enforcement, being a father, asking if the cop is a father also shows me that he is trying to relate to them. Probably for a couple reasons, ya he doesn't want to be arrested. Also maybe he is looking for some sort of validation that this could happen to anyone. I can see how one would seek that.

Aside from the interview, I think there is some evidence that can't be explained away. The lunchtime visit to the car, the fact that he didn't discover Cooper for a period of time when his head is close to JRH, the smell must have been strong, the amount of time between CFA and walking away from the car. These are bad for him. I thought it was weird that his in court reaction to the interview was almost stronger / worse than the ME report.

I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this. Love being apart of this community.

 

[just the facts pls]

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying what the 'boys club' was talking about and agreeing to on the talk show. Ross was getting sexual with young girls. Both liking it. Something he had never before experienced in his life. He acted like it was the first time for him in a candy store and he could not get enough! He didn't give a hoot who was young , old fat or skinny. Just show him your boobies and meet for car sex!

Chill. I'm not shooting the messenger, and that implies there's a message worth shooting the messenger over.

Nah, I'm still not buying that JRH was so overcome with teenage temptresses that he can't be expected to remember when his own son is in the car. Remember he was texting and sexting for literally months before this happened. Interview tapes show that he is intelligent, self aware, can communicate clearly, and thinks ahead. He's a thirty something with a college degree who qualified for a high paying job. He's not a fourteen year old kid who goes "gah! *advertiser censored*!" He's a grown man who left his son in the car to die shortly after telling a woman he needed to escape his son and his family.

 

[Cardinal47]

I find it kind of interesting that the jury members are already asking the judge when this trial will be over? She told them testimony should conclude Thanksgiving.

I don't remember a jury ever asking that question in the middle of testimony!!

 

[yupikgirl]

Hummm I thought Cooper was 30lbs and had outgrown the car seat he was in his last morning alive. His regular car seat was in Leanne's car ready for a trip she and Cooper were taking. I thought Cooper's head was way above the top of the car seat.

I guess it's debatable according to some here (that's why I put that part of my post in quotes sorry to confuse) There are measurements from the autopsy that don't make sense to some. What we do know is he was three inches over the car seat limit and he was under the weight limit.

It is a fact he was in a seat that he had outgrown by height.

I believe after seeing and hearing all the testimony that his head was visible and close to the top of the seat if not above IMO. I think we will get to see a doll in the seat. I also think that he wasn't flat like a pancake to the seat and no matter where his head was he was visible because he is a person that protruded outward from the seat near the top.



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[Niner]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY KATYDID23


:bdsong:


:confetti:

Also - :tyou: all who have posted the tweets and kept us all updated on what's going on in court! No speakers here... in the middle of moving out of the country...