Trial - Ross Harris #4

[Rocco]

Kilgore did that more than once, surprisingly. He also ended up making a point about the drive from their house being much farther than the drive from chick fil a. (paraphrasing.) He also made the point that Cooper usually eats breakfast at home. (Basically pointing out that the days he fell asleep he had a longer drive and didn't need to be awake to eat. :facepalm

I know everyone here just loves the guy, but he has done several things to lose my respect...and he has also made plenty of mistakes and had some bad failed gotchas. Not suggesting the prosecution is awesome, but people are all about this guy and I don't get it.

Add to that his numerous clips today of people walking through the parking lot and the failure of the prosecution to find out who these people were. Fail. Who the heck looks into other people's cars when they walk through a parking lot. Let me see......maybe thieves looking for stuff to steal but other than that, I don't know that normal people do that. If anyone had seen him or heard him, they would have gotten help---so obviously they didn't.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just for starters, you didn't see a problem with Stoddard maintaining, from the beginning all the way through his trial testimony, that RH made a call lasting 6 minutes that he couldn't have, given he was detained and had had his phone confiscated?

Did you see any problem with Stoddard testifying that RH hadn't followed through on contacting the travel agent, that the agent had initiated contact , when Stoddard was in possession of an email sent by RH to the agent initiating their exchange?

RBBM, another Perry Mason moment. I am going to go back and watch the Pros during this testimony.

 

[RANCH]

Just for starters, you didn't see a problem with Stoddard maintaining, from the beginning all the way through his trial testimony, that RH made a call lasting 6 minutes that he couldn't have, given he was detained and had had his phone confiscated?

Did you see any problem with Stoddard testifying that RH hadn't followed through on contacting the travel agent, that the agent had initiated contact , when Stoddard was in possession of an email sent by RH to the agent initiating their exchange?

It's amazing to me that a detective on this case could be impeached about anything. Either he's sloppy or he's intentionally lying to the jury. Neither are good.

Makes me wonder if he has tampered or hid some important exculpatory evidence. JMO

 

[Hope4More]

But Katydid, they used this in a SW, that RH said he researched it. He didn't say that. Same thing with the "child free"

And Kilgore really got Stoddard on the "child free". As Alex has not talked to any of them other than that first time. State got that on record. So Stoddard lied there too. IF he knew then as Kilgore asked where and when did you learn that. He stood by his testimony. Which could come back and bite him jmho

It's called perjury, a criminal offense, or gross incompetence, which is grounds for termination. Me, I'm hoping for a two-fer penalty, but given what I've seen in this case, I expect him to be promoted.

 

[justkk]

From the beginning, I felt like RH intentionally left his child in the vehicle. At this point, following the trial, I still feel that way. From watching the video footage we've seen so far during the trial ... I get the sense he was doing some "acting" because he was well aware he was likely being filmed. BUT, the one thing I did see on part of that footage that has "kind of" swayed me off Cooper's death may have been intentional is when Stoddard asks Harris "how he thinks it could have happened"? That Harris left Cooper in the vehicle. Harris says something to the effect of "some days" (many days?) he goes to CF AFTER he has dropped Cooper off. I don't know if the jury caught that but I sure did. I was able to start to understand how it was possible it may actually have slipped his mind that his child was in the vehicle with him. What I can't reconcile, under that scenario though, is that he physically had the child with him, put him in the car seat at home, took him out of the car seat at CF, put him back in the car seat after they ate at CF and then ... that quick ... forgot the child was with him. It's a tough case.

I have come to believe (at this point) from watching the trial, that THIS was his defense/excuse in why it would be seen as an accident. I posted a little earlier about this - in the LH RH video he comments "taking him to breakfast was the worst mistake of my life"(or something similar).

We have questioned WHY on a day he was already late to work AND going to leave early to go to a movie he would choose to take Cooper in to CFA....

This would explain why. IMO!


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[arkansasmimi]

Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
Just for starters, you didn't see a problem with Stoddard maintaining, from the beginning all the way through his trial testimony, that RH made a call lasting 6 minutes that he couldn't have, given he was detained and had had his phone confiscated?

Did you see any problem with Stoddard testifying that RH hadn't followed through on contacting the travel agent, that the agent had initiated contact , when Stoddard was in possession of an email sent by RH to the agent initiating their exchange

I did not see a problem with either one. Or maybe just a minor hmmm.

:waitasec: Can you tell us why you don't see a problem. Just curious. TIA

 

[mahmoo]

Wondering how you guys are finding Stoddards credibility? I was expecting to feel on cross that he had what they're calling confirmation bias but all I see is a cop who is standing up for a dead kid. I was guessing the defense would find more to impeach him. Thoughts?

So far, nothing about Stoddard has set off my hinky meter. He strikes me as a "career cop that loves his job" but I didn't find him aggressive or over bearing when he interviewed RH. Probably the biggest case of his career but I don't get the sense he's enjoying it.

 

[Hope4More]

It's amazing to me that a detective on this case could be impeached about anything. Either he's sloppy or he's intentionally lying to the jury. Neither are good.

Makes me wonder if he has tampered or hid some important exculpatory evidence. JMO

Lol. Our posts crossed.

 

[MsMarple]

Add to that his numerous clips today of people walking through the parking lot and the failure of the prosecution to find out who these people were. Fail. Who the heck looks into other people's cars when they walk through a parking lot. Let me see......maybe thieves looking for stuff to steal but other than that, I don't know that normal people do that. If anyone had seen him or heard him, they would have gotten help---so obviously they didn't.

ITA. I'm bringing my post in from the last thread...

I think it's too problematic to try and suss out whether or not Cooper made enough noise that passersby could hear him. He could have been awake and calm, he could have cried briefly then fell asleep, his normal cry could be quieter than say, an infant who might start screaming. Who knows?

Another thing to consider, not early on but later in the morning, is that as Cooper's body temperature rose and he became dehydrated his breathing would have become more rapid as he tried to inhale oxygen. At that point crying out may have taken second place to filling his lungs. Eventually he may have begun seizing as his electrolytes became unbalanced.

IOW, there may be other reasons why no one heard Cooper besides him being asleep. How many cars have we all walked past in crowded parking lots without hearing anything? That doesn't mean there were no kids (or pets) inside cars crying, just that we didn't hear them as we went on about out busy day.

Tennessee passed a Good Samaritan Law that went into effect in July 2015 which legally permits a passerby to smash the window of a car if a pet or child is inside. I'm curious as to whether or not hot car deaths decrease as a result - I guess it'll take maybe 5 years or so to see accurate statistics.

http://www.jems.com/articles/print/...how-treat-vehicular-hyperthermia-childre.html

 

[tlcya]

A reminder folks: You can disagree respectfully. The beauty of these threads is that each is allowed their own opinion and we don't all have to agree. We can discuss our varied POVs without a need to do so in a manner that suggests we are being dismissive of one another.

Please remember, it is not your job to convince anyone of anything. That is the job of the attorneys representing each side in the trial. In here we simply discuss and no consensus either way towards guilt or innocence needs reaching.

 

[Bc007]

LMAO Stoddard was like huh? Paraphrasing:
Kilgore: have you not been trained in confirmation bias?
Stoddard:no
Kilgore: I cant question you on something you havent been trained on?
Stoddard No

Too funny example ... :thinking:
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.[Note 1][1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

This discribes my opinion of Stallard's behavior through the investigation which was most likely shared with his team. Doesn't mean that RH should walk, which he won't, but the investigation was so poorly done that it will most likely hurt the level of conviction.

 

[Hope4More]

It's amazing to me that a detective on this case could be impeached about anything. Either he's sloppy or he's intentionally lying to the jury. Neither are good.

Makes me wonder if he has tampered or hid some important exculpatory evidence. JMO

What I'm wondering now is if it was Stoddard's call to detain RH at the scene, without leaving his fingerprints on that decision. IMO it's quite likely.

The man refuses to see what doesn't conform to his beliefs. He thought, on the 18th, that RH was on the phone talking to a "partner in crime," to paraphrase something Stoddard said in pretrial. He thought that was suspicious enough, along with little else but RH's demeanor, to keep him detained and away from his son's dead body, and to haul him in for questioning.

He knew when he received the call records that RH wasn't on the phone for 6 minutes, if he made that call at all. He KNEW that, yet still went after the terrified daycare teacher Ms. Gray, trying to get her to say RH spoke with her. And he knew it when he testified in court. What does that make him?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Kilgore did that more than once, surprisingly. He also ended up making a point about the drive from their house being much farther than the drive from chick fil a. (paraphrasing.) He also made the point that Cooper usually eats breakfast at home. (Basically pointing out that the days he fell asleep he had a longer drive and didn't need to be awake to eat. :facepalm

I know everyone here just loves the guy, but he has done several things to lose my respect...and he has also made plenty of mistakes and had some bad failed gotchas. Not suggesting the prosecution is awesome, but people are all about this guy and I don't get it.

RBBM Kilgore didn't point out that Cooper usually eat at home. He asked during Stoddard investigation how often was it that Cooper ate at home vs daycare. Stoddard said he didn't remember specifically. Pointing out again, that Stoddard these were things that he should have known.

As far as how your opinion of Kilgore, (personally I have grown to like all 3 of the Def Lawyers) their style of not yelling, the getting what they need from the Witness before or even without the witness realizing it. They know their case and are well prepared. They know when they have new information at a split second. They have caught many little mistakes that the State should have. Big one being the messed up measurements when Grimstead put the car seat back in car 7/2/14. Each of these points the Def is making is causing credibility of States witnesses. Today another witness took a hit for the State. Someone should have went over with these State witnesses their prior statements. This is embarrassing to me especially such a high profile case and live streamed on a dozen or more channels and archived.

Curious, where has Def made some mistakes? I know they are not perfect, but can't figure out where your speaking of "plenty of mistakes and failed gotchas". TIA I would like to review and make that note in my notebook.

 

[RANCH]

Lol. Our posts crossed.

The more I think about Stoddard's "mistakes" the more I shake my head. This guy is the lead detective on this case. The State is using him to tell the jury the facts that he uncovered during his investigation. He should know this case like the back of his hand, backwards and forwards or any which way.

The jury deserves the whole truth from him. JMO.

 

[matou]

4 ways RH learned about the dangers of hot cars, before his son died in a hot car: http://people.com/crime/justin-ross-harris-trial-watched-youtube-video/

 

[momoftwocrazies]

:waitasec: Can you tell us why you don't see a problem. Just curious. TIA

Here's what I'm thinking: the travel agent.. what could LE glean from her? I'm not seeing how she's relevant at all. And there was a wealth of pertinent leads he was focusing on. Am I missing something here?

The phone call: also, not seeing how this is something he should have been focusing on. Seems like a minor dead end detail that Stoddard may not so I wouldn't consider it perjury. Again, am I missing something here?

Yes he's the lead detective but he's also human. He may not remember every single detail of this enormous investigation. He is a seasoned cop, this isn't his first rodeo, he's seen a lot of bad things. So, I don't see him planting, lying, or anything else just to get his guy in this case.

Thoughts? It's awesome to see how we are experiencing this so differently.

 

[blue22]

RBBM Kilgore didn't point out that Cooper usually eat at home. He asked during Stoddard investigation how often was it that Cooper ate at home vs daycare. Stoddard said he didn't remember specifically. Pointing out again, that Stoddard these were things that he should have known.

As far as how your opinion of Kilgore, (personally I have grown to like all 3 of the Def Lawyers) their style of not yelling, the getting what they need from the Witness before or even without the witness realizing it. They know their case and are well prepared. They know when they have new information at a split second. They have caught many little mistakes that the State should have. Big one being the messed up measurements when Grimstead put the car seat back in car 7/2/14. Each of these points the Def is making is causing credibility of States witnesses. Today another witness took a hit for the State. Someone should have went over with these State witnesses their prior statements. This is embarrassing to me especially such a high profile case and live streamed on a dozen or more channels and archived.

Curious, where has Def made some mistakes? I know they are not perfect, but can't figure out where your speaking of "plenty of mistakes and failed gotchas". TIA I would like to review and make that note in my notebook.

Weird. I have in my notes that Cooper would usually eat at home or daycare. I thought Killgore tried to get Stoddard to say things in the way he wanted him to (so as to "catch" him) over and over and it repeatedly didn't go his way. IMO those are mistakes that make him look a bit desperate. He needlessly harassed multiple women on stand, and tried to humiliate them. He accidentally made a point for the state at least twice today. (That I an remember of the top of my head.) He's focusing WAY too much time on people walking by, and it looks desperate.

I was not implying Kilgore is not good. I just don't understand the endless praise, that's all. He is good, yes. But IMO, that's it.

IMO

 

[Bc007]

Kilgore did that more than once, surprisingly. He also ended up making a point about the drive from their house being much farther than the drive from chick fil a. (paraphrasing.) He also made the point that Cooper usually eats breakfast at home. (Basically pointing out that the days he fell asleep he had a longer drive and didn't need to be awake to eat. :facepalm

I know everyone here just loves the guy, but he has done several things to lose my respect...and he has also made plenty of mistakes and had some bad failed gotchas. Not suggesting the prosecution is awesome, but people are all about this guy and I don't get it.

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around- that they never fed Cooper at home. He ate at school or they got him CF.

 

[blue22]

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around- that they never fed Cooper at home. He ate at school or they got him CF.

I heard at home or daycare, I will have to go back and listen. Both those points are counterproductive for the defense, IMO. Since Cooper could be asleep the whole way and not awakened. And the drive is significantly longer, which was helpfully pointed out by the defense.

 

[Hope4More]

The more I think about Stoddard's "mistakes" the more I shake my head. This guy is the lead detective on this case. The State is using him to tell the jury the facts that he uncovered during his investigation. He should know this case like the back of his hand, backwards and forwards or any which way.

The jury deserves the whole truth from him. JMO.

I started reading up on this case in earnest this past summer, after putting it away shortly after reading about it in the news. Cases about babies and children (other than the one in Florida) disturb me too much to want to dig deep.

This case was of interest to me because of GA's new felony murder law, which allows the State to secure a murder conviction without having to prove premeditation or intent. The more I read initially, the more bothered I became about LE's investigation, and that still holds true.

Leaving all else aside, the reality is, imo, that Stoddard's pursuit of a malice murder conviction at all costs may well result in the overturning of that conviction if it is obtained. If RH is guilty of malice murder (I don't think he is), then Stoddard won't have won "justice for Cooper," he will have tainted the State's case, perhaps beyond repair to retry RH.