Trial Thread 3/14/12

[antiquegirl]

I think this is the green station wagon that has been referred to.

Am wondering if this car will be referenced by the Defence?

ETA: What is the date that the "script" was written? Does it coincide with this date of LE Appeal May 4, 2009?

(BBM)

James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

McClintic says ah wrote the scenario in her notebook on the 9th or 10th after meeting with #Rafferty

(Typo: "ah" = "she")

She had to have written it before her initial arrest on April 12th. It was found in her room after LE raided the house on May 19 subsequent to the second arrest.

And while this may not be relevant, I still have to wonder how in over a month, her mother never found or read this journal. I also wonder how CMcC could have been so out of it that she accepted her daughter returning home in men's clothes and shoes with no signs of her own on April 8th. It's hard to believe, even in mom's befuddled state of mind, that she had no suspicions about her daughter.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

LFP snapped a still of Rafferty with his new haircut. I don't see where it really helps with his image. JMO

From the video "McClintic prepared to take the fall"

http://www.lfpress.com/video/

ITA. Worst. Haircut. Ever. He looks awful!

JMO

 

[flipflop]

I remember reading somewhere that CM went to court when TLM was being sentenced. So she is alive. While searching for that link (which I have not found yet) I found this article from Dec 2010

Carol McClintic has since moved out of the row house she shared with her daughter. She's spent the past year staying in spare rooms at friends' homes and at local motels - either until her money has run out or she's overstayed her welcome.
Several locals said she's been harassed because of her association with her daughter.
At the Mariner Motel on the edge of town, where she stayed as recently as the end of May, she continued to proclaim her daughter's innocence, resident Todd Maltby said.
Carol McClintic, in a series of brief emails - all sent between 3 a.m. and 6 a.m. and riddled with awkward punctuation - said she had moved away from the Woodstock area and had been "treated like ****" over the past year.
"my day will come . . . .. And I want to write a full article and have it published word for word; And I will Sell it to the highest bidder," she wrote.
"When this is over I TOO will speak LOUD and CLEAR . . . .. AND ALL THE TRUTH WILL BE TOLD
http://199.71.40.195/topics/news/story.html?id=3951599

 

[flipflop]

ITA. Worst. Haircut. Ever. He looks awful!

JMO

I didn't want to quote his pic again...I hate seeing his ugly face.
He has turned into a real FATSO being in jail without his daily drug fix!!!!!

 

[antiquegirl]

IMO she's covering her *advertiser censored* for her mistake, no one else mentioned that TLM said the coat and hammer were left with Tori's body. (I was following about 5 different Tweet sources, Linda N was the only one.)

ITA. I was following 6.

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow /

McClintic threw garbage bags in dumpsters at the car wash and the couple changed clothes in a public washroom, she said

James Armstrong‏@jamesarmstrong7

McClintic said they vacuumed inside of car. Threw garbage bags in dumpster behind car wash #rafferty

Cynthia Mulligan‏@CityCynthia

#rafferty - they started to clean inside of vehicle, put garbage bags in dumpster and garbage can. The bags had the jacket, hammer in it.

 

[antiquegirl]

I didn't want to quote his pic again...I hate seeing his ugly face.
He has turned into a real FATSO being in jail without his daily drug fix!!!!!

I couldn't say if he had a "daily" drug habit, but can think of other reasons why he (and TLM at the time of her arrest) had gained considerable weight. They both had to quit smoking cold turkey when jailed, prison food is notoriously unhealthy, and there would be the lack of exercise. MTR was a regular visitor to a gym before he was arrested. I doubt he's getting out much these days, or has any access to fancy gym equipment.

JMO

 

[jbrady]

I hear you, Kitty. Instead of a headache, my stomach has been upset all week. Following this trial closely is so stressful and heartbreaking.

CMcC told reporters she had terminal intestinal cancer. She said she had 3 months to live without treatment and 6 months with. It seems no one knows where she is, but I'm sure LE must. Had she passed away, there would be records. If she is still collecting government assistance of any kind, LE could find out where they're being sent. IMO, she's either staying with relatives or is in a hospice.

MTR didn't seem to discriminate when it came to his taste in women. He had girlfriends and female friends with and without children. <modsnip>
HTH

<modsnip>, and I really don't know the rules of this forum yet. But here's a really simplified answer to your question... All facts.

Not sure how old tlm is, but Katerina L. (prostitute, tattoo artist, kipps lane, supported MTR) is young. She's no older than 25 now. She had three boys (two fathers) when her and MTR were dating, the same time he became a suspect in this trial. She became pregnant around this time and had a fourth baby and named him <modsnip>, who died less than a year old. She left London when her bf became a suspect in the murder trial of TS.

If MTR gets convicted of rape, I'll wonder if he's done it before. I wonder a lot about that, especially with the comments Rodney makes in his press conferences.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

I couldn't say if he had a "daily" drug habit, but can think of other reasons why he (and TLM at the time of her arrest) had gained considerable weight. They both had to quit smoking cold turkey when jailed, prison food is notoriously unhealthy, and there would be the lack of exercise. MTR was a regular visitor to a gym before he was arrested. I doubt he's getting out much these days, or has any access to fancy gym equipment.

JMO

Do we know if he was a cigarette smoker? In all the time between TLM getting picked up, if we are to speculate that he went back to the area and only picked up his own shoes and not hers, why didn't he go to TLM's house and retrieve the journal and his articles of clothing too? He was suppose to be helping Carol while TLM was "detained" so it should be easy enough to gain access to her house. Albeit, he could have been looking for the journal under the ruse of getting clothes for TLM but then, why leave his own clothing still there? He could have told Carol they were his and he was taking them back.

Did Carol's phone still have the text messages for TLM to meet him on it. Does his phone still have these messages he sent? If not, did the Crown get them from the cell phone service provider?

Why would he remove the battery from his cell phone and then put it back in to use in Guelph. Why not call his "friend" from a pay phone?

And last but not least, I find the picture of TLM's bedroom fascinating in that her bed was made. In hearing how she spent her days and probably most of her nights, keeping her room tidy looked like it was something she had some control over.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Have there been any text messages retrieved in this case? I ask because in other cases it's been clarified that the phone companies are not capable of saving actual text messages&#8230; there are just so many of them.

I can't recall which specific case it was, but the person providing the information was someone who had worked for one of the cell providers.

 

[antiquegirl]

Do we know if he was a cigarette smoker?

There was an older picture of him in Wendell's blue car, smoking a cigarette. Whether he gave up the habit since then, I can't say.

In all the time between TLM getting picked up, if we are to speculate that he went back to the area and only picked up his own shoes and not hers, why didn't he go to TLM's house and retrieve the journal and his articles of clothing too? He was suppose to be helping Carol while TLM was "detained" so it should be easy enough to gain access to her house.

That's an excellent question. According to a post by DC (and I'm sure I read it somewhere this week, too), MTR took TLM some clothes for a court appearance before he, himself, was arrested. He had access to her belongings. This was before she had confessed to abducting Tori. If he knew about the journal, why didn't he ask her where it was? If not, why didn't she tell him? Why didn't she ask her mother to destroy it? IMO, it was because she was already thinking of throwing MTR under the bus. I'm not even sure he fed her that alibi, either. This journal entry could have been all her idea.

Albeit, he could have been looking for the journal under the ruse of getting clothes for TLM but then, why leave his own clothing still there? He could have told Carol they were his and he was taking them back.

He didn't need a ruse. All he had to do was ask TLM where it was. But obviously, he didn't, or she lied and told him she had already gotten rid of it.

As for the clothes, I don't think they incriminated him. As her alleged boyfriend, having some of his clothes at her house could be easily explained without implicating him in the crime. CMcC and the neighbours already knew he came around. The clothes weren't nearly as important as that journal.

Did Carol's phone still have the text messages for TLM to meet him on it. Does his phone still have these messages he sent? If not, did the Crown get them from the cell phone service provider?

I thought we'd established a while back that cell phone service providers may keep records of senders' and recipients' numbers, dates, and times, but not the actual messages themselves. I could be wrong, but I think we had some phone company employees on here who swore they didn't have the space or technology to keep every text message ever sent.

Why would he remove the battery from his cell phone and then put it back in to use in Guelph. Why not call his "friend" from a pay phone?

Another good question. The Crown said BA will testify. Maybe she has the answer. Or maybe he just got stupid all of a sudden.

And last but not least, I find the picture of TLM's bedroom fascinating in that her bed was made. In hearing how she spent her days and probably most of her nights, keeping her room tidy looked like it was something she had some control over.

I found it funny, too, especially in light of one of the neighbours' statements to the media that the house was a pigsty. (Sorry, it's way past my bedtime and I'm too tired to look for links.)

JMO

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Have there been any text messages retrieved in this case? I ask because in other cases it's been clarified that the phone companies are not capable of saving actual text messages… there are just so many of them.

I can't recall which specific case it was, but the person providing the information was someone who had worked for one of the cell providers.

They could have been saved in Carol's phone unless she erased them. Rafferty's may have saved his outgoing messages on his but I doubt he would have in this particular case. I tend to save only the "naughty" ones my husband sends to me along with my response to them but I have been re-thinking this lately. I pretty much have no use to hang on to the "please pick up coffee on your way home tonight" ones once I have completed that errand.

 

[antiquegirl]

Well, I found the pic of MTR smoking, at least. I know it's an old one, so again, not sure if he was still smoking at the time of his arrest.

 

[antiquegirl]

And I found the quote from the neighbour.

"Their home was crammed with stuff; you couldn't walk through it without stepping on something, said ex-neighbour Craig Racine, 32. Mother and daughter shared a mattress on the floor, he said."

http://www.canada.com/Terri+Lynne+McClintic+lost+soul+didn+stand+chance+life/3951599/story.html

Now, I'm really going to bed.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

As for the clothes, I don't think they incriminated him. As her alleged boyfriend, having some of his clothes at her house could be easily explained without implicating him in the crime. CMcC and the neighbours already knew he came around. The clothes weren't nearly as important as that journal.

JMO

Respectfully snipped

I watched the behaviour between MR and TLM in the lobby of the movie theatre. When people arrived at the same time he seemed to be pushing her away or avoiding her attempts at "closeness". They took a very close look at what was playing in that theatre to the point where I was unsure of where the heck they were in the first place. She looked like she didn't really care what was going to be playing on the screen either but just "playing along"; they were trying to determine what movie would have the least amount of interested viewers watching that afternoon (it seemed like it was still daylight out the front doors too). IMO she thought their "relationship" was more than just sex and drugs. How devastating it was for her to find out that was it only that. IMO, she is much more than being "mildly vindictive".

 

[dilbert]

FWIW I found an answer to the cell phone text messages being kept by cell providers question.
It depends on which provider you use, according to this article (evidence from a different murder case) Rogers does not keep text messages, but Telus does.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/03/14/19500031.html

Robert's cell provider turned over to police the records from Oct. 31, 2009 to Feb. 2, 2010. Rogers doesn't keep text messages, but it was clear Roberts was a prolific phone user - her record was 400 pages long.

When police began to map out who she called and who called her, the record stretched to 1,000 pages.

"She was on her phone quite a lot," said London Const. Luanne Devine, who analyzed the calls.

Telus, Hatch's cell phone company, was able to provide the text-message conversations. For January 2010, there were 47 pages of texts - most of them to Roberts.

HTH

 

[Tugela]

I'm a bit late following this, but is there any physical evidence implicating Rafferty, or is there only stuff implicating her, with her testimony making up the rest?

If there is nothing else then probably the defence is going to say that he had nothing to do with it, and it was all her.

 

[MoonFlwr]

Everyday this man is out there talking to the press. Everyday I admire him more and more.

Thanks to all who are keeping it going on the threads!

Oh, and last night one of my posts had all sorts of * in it. Sorry about that. I tried to edit it in my iphone memo and cutting and copying it into the reply section and that's what it did.

He is such a beautiful person....

 

[matou]

My previous long winded comment on this topic was removed (my very first!) because it contained rumors, and I really don't know the rules of this forum yet. But here's a really simplified answer to your question... All facts.

Not sure how old tlm is, but Katerina Lesley (prostitute, tattoo artist, kipps lane, supported MTR) is young. She's no older than 25 now. She had three boys (two fathers) when her and MTR were dating, the same time he became a suspect in this trial. She became pregnant around this time and had a fourth baby and named him Mychol, who died less than a year old. She left London when her bf became a suspect in the murder trial of TS.

If MTR gets convicted of rape, I'll wonder if he's done it before. I wonder a lot about that, especially with the comments Rodney makes in his press conferences.

Welcome J. There was at least one other person not mentioned who posted here and had a young child (son). I have a feeling there will a lot of single moms worried about their children and whether he did anything to them. He posted on a variety of dating websites, therefore hooking up with a variety of women. I won't be surprised girls he dated were 18 or younger, like TLM at the time. JMO

 

[~n/t~]

I'm a bit late following this, but is there any physical evidence implicating Rafferty, or is there only stuff implicating her, with her testimony making up the rest?

If there is nothing else then probably the defence is going to say that he had nothing to do with it, and it was all her.

If you go to the first page of this thread, there is an outline (chapters) of how the Crown is presenting their case. Chapter 6 onward will be all about Rafferty and the evidence against him.

 

[~n/t~]

It will be a long trial but I absolutely love the way the Crown decided to present their case. They could have skipped over some of TLM's childhood stuff because it was irrelevant to the case but so far I think they're making it simple and easy for this jury to understand.