trial thread: 3/7/2012

[~n/t~]

Well perhaps Derstine is trying to establish that TM and TLM had known eachother for longer, I don't know. You sound like I'm trying to accuse TM, I'm not, I'm merely wondering what is going on in Derstine mind and what he is trying to establish with his line of questioning about the house.

I apologize. I didn't mean to come across as accusatory. I don't know if the defence will call TM to the stand again or not but one thing is for sure. I will believe TM over TLM any day.

The defence cross was a pitiful attempt at blaming mom for Tori's kidnapping. He failed, imo

 

[antiquegirl]

I wonder who JG ripped off for 400$ worth of Oxies.

Reason I'm curious is that 400$ is not alot for big time drug dealer, but for a small-time drug dealer like CM, 400$ would be alot of money.

I wonder, too. I also wonder if LE investigated this debt and the actual amount involved. Who's to say that the amount quoted is true unless they get the dealer's statement?

Funny how that was the first rumour circulating almost immediately after Tori went missing and how vehemently TM denied it. Frankly, what does it matter whether it was TM or JG who owed the money? They were living together and both were doing Oxy. His drug debt is her drug debt, as far as I can see.

This article is from May 14, 2009

"Rumours of a drug debt have swirled around the case since eight-year-old Tori vanished after school on April 8. McDonald said she's never incurred any kind of drug debt"

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1568901

And this from April 16, 2009

"McDonald said she and her boyfriend, James Goris, have heard the talk around town and insists none of it is true. She said she has not been taking illicit drugs and is not a dealer. "I haven't done drugs since high school." :liar:

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/619277--gossip-galls-tori-s-mother

We now know by her own admission that TM and JG were buying drugs from TLM's mother. I really don't think that another possible motive for Tori's kidnapping is all that hard to believe.

JMO

 

[~n/t~]

900 LE officers on this case. I think they investigated everything under the sun.

 

[Kamille]

Xactly, that's what I said above, altho I didn't so far as to say it was pill bottles, but it was which may indicate that TM had know TLM much longer than she said? And remember the sofa she was supposed to give someone? TM's neighbour said that was a full year before.

Just bouncing off your post Hello Kitty....

Well I really don't know where the heck they plan to go with the drugs and who knew who when stuff. The guy's car had Victoria's blood in it. And he was driving it. And his phone was pinging off the closest tower to the murder scene. So smearing the victim's family for what we all know were very bad decisions doesn't change the evidence that he was there. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Just bouncing off your post Hello Kitty....

Well I really don't know where the heck they plan to go with the drugs and who knew who when stuff. The guy's car had Victoria's blood in it. And he was driving it. And his phone was pinging off the closest tower to the murder scene. So smearing the victim's family for what we all know were very bad decisions doesn't change the evidence that he was there. :waitasec:

MOO

Agreed totally, he was there and so was TLM. But I think the defense is trying to establish a connection to TM, and perhaps a motive for the terrible murder... altho my opinion is still that this was a thrill kill.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

She admitted the cops told her she was their prime suspect. Not sure what that has anything to do with Tori's murder though. She's innocent and they were wrong.

One murderer confessed. The other suspected murderer is on trial.

Yes, it seems like it is common, even standard procedure, for LE to investigate the parents.

 

[Kamille]

Agreed totally, he was there and so was TLM. But I think the defense is trying to establish a connection to TM, and perhaps a motive for the terrible murder... altho my opinion is still that this was a thrill kill.

Agree. It wouldn't matter if they all knew each other for years prior to that day, although if that can be established I would be very disappointed in TM for lying about that, but the fact remains. Only two people kidnapped, assaulted and murdered Victoria according to the opening statement. And there is no motive that justifies that.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

Just bouncing off your post Hello Kitty....

Well I really don't know where the heck they plan to go with the drugs and who knew who when stuff. The guy's car had Victoria's blood in it. And he was driving it. And his phone was pinging off the closest tower to the murder scene. So smearing the victim's family for what we all know were very bad decisions doesn't change the evidence that he was there. :waitasec:

MOO

Amen! It doesn't change the fact that this sweet child was brutally murdered. Kidnapped outside her school by someone who allegedly told her they were going to go look at puppies and led her to a vehicle that had been canvassing the area since 9 am!

TM's drug addiction has nothing to do with this. I don't care if she was the worse mom on this planet. No child deserves what Tori went through.

TM is not on trial for Tori's murder.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, it seems like it is common, even standard procedure, for LE to investigate the parents.

I'm really surprised though that they had TLM's name on day four and they weren't able to hone in on MR much sooner. Perhaps that was calculated? Keep him thinking that they had TM in their sights while getting supeoeas and warrants for things related to MR? And monitoring his actions in the days/weeks following the murder? Which appear to have been effective because one of the chapters is going to be about his behaviour and actions in the month or so after the murder before his arrest.

Maybe keeping the focus on TM in the press was allowing him to think he was still off the radar? And not only did he not flee, he did some pretty boneheaded things if we are to believe the opening statement. So it's a good thing they didn't go after the pair of them right away I guess.

MOO

 

[Wondergirl]

Maybe the Chapter organization of this trial will have Tara show up again at some point. IDK.

I was thinking more like the Defence calling her back on redirect or whatever they call it. I don't know if that's allowed?

 

[kaRN]

Looking at the surveillance video, I think we can clearly see that Tori was not forced. She followed the <modsnip>. Poor Tori probably got into MR's car without being forced. She thought she was going to go look at a puppy. One similar to the one she had. We've all heard it before....kidnappers using puppies to lure children. Lost puppies, etc. Cedrika Provencher was lured the same way. She's still missing.

Tori was murdered. One <modsnip> confessed. The other one will get convicted!

Straight from the criminal code of Canada http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-138.html#h-84

• 279. (1) Every person commits an offence who kidnaps a person with intent
  
  • (a) to cause the person to be confined or imprisoned against the person’s will;
  • (b) to cause the person to be unlawfully sent or transported out of Canada against the person’s will; or
  • (c) to hold the person for ransom or to service against the person’s will.

snipped but concludes with this
Non-resistance

(3) In proceedings under this section, the fact that the person in relation to whom the offence is alleged to have been committed did not resist is not a defence unless the accused proves that the failure to resist was not caused by threats, duress, force or exhibition of force.

• R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 279;
• R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 39;
• 1995, c. 39, s. 147;
• 1997, c. 18, s. 14;
• 2008, c. 6, s. 30;
• 2009, c. 22, s. 12.

BBM
Burden of proof falls on the accused if the DT attempts to try that excuse. :jail:

 

[Wondergirl]

There are 87 Pictures from the Rafferty Trial Evidence, as shown on the London Free Press Rafferty trial Section. Unfortunately, the labels are not saving, so, I am going to try and correct them. I have grabbed some ones I thought y'all would be interested in.

The remainder are here:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19473431.html

18 April 2009 Parking lot of Caressant Care Retirement Home &#8211;Direction of camera 6 and 18 on CASS facing towards CCRH:

Camera 6 CASS &#8211;April 8th 2009 &#8211;Time 9:04:05 AM:

Camera 6 CASS &#8211;April 8th 2009 &#8211;Time 3:05:15 PM:

Camera 6 CASS &#8211;April 8th 2009 Time 3:30:56 PM *********:

Camera 18 CASS &#8211;April 8th 2009 &#8211;Time 3:30 PM *********:

Camera 18 CASS &#8211;April 8th 2009 &#8211;Time 3:32:27 PM:

Sidewalk on West Side of Fyfe Ave. facing North:

Caressant Care Parking Lot:

April 8, 2009 Landmarks:

Esso Station on Norwich Road. Video Camera as viewed from Parkinson Road:

ESSO Camera Approximate Angle View:

ESSO Camera April 8th 2009 &#8211;Synchronized (Day Light Savings) time is 3:20:22 PM

ESSO Camera April 8th 2009 &#8211;Synchronized (Day Light Savings) time is 3:25:24 PM

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I'm really surprised though that they had TLM's name on day four and they weren't able to hone in on MR much sooner. Perhaps that was calculated? Keep him thinking that they had TM in their sights while getting supeoeas and warrants for things related to MR? And monitoring his actions in the days/weeks following the murder? Which appear to have been effective because one of the chapters is going to be about his behaviour and actions in the month or so after the murder before his arrest.

Maybe keeping the focus on TM in the press was allowing him to think he was still off the radar? And not only did he not flee, he did some pretty boneheaded things if we are to believe the opening statement. So it's a good thing they didn't go after the pair of them right away I guess.

MOO

I was really surprised that they had TLMc on their radar that early one in the investigation! Its going to be really interesting to see when MTR caught their eye. I guess it depends on how closely and how soon they looked at TLMc.

I wouldn't be surprised if LE was using Tara to give MTR and TLMc a false sense of security. Its been horrible for Tara though.

 

[antiquegirl]

Great pics, WG. Thanks!

 

[ChaChaCha]

SBM

Thank you for putting into words what I had thought today after hearing her testimony. I agree it won't change the verdict, but in all fairness with her testifying under oath to these things, it contradicts what she stated over and over during the investigation and time Tori was missing, thus allowing the defense to move in and question her credibility.

I wonder if Rodney is satisfied with the answers he got form TM today as to why Tori was allowed to walk home by herself.

All this is JMO.

I am going to chime in here as well ... some parts of TMs testimony did differ from what was stated and known immediately after Tori's disappearance. In my opinion and probably those of you who have followed the case closely, someone was fudging, but not enough to be called on it - yet. I note that TMs responses were short, and she did not offer further details or explanations - very succinct. Rule number one of testifying - short answers, offer nothing. However, what is done is done, and unless Rafferty's lawyer is planning on saying that TLM abducted Tori as payback for a $400 debt, perhaps TMs testimony today will not be challenged at a later date. But I think that is coming down the pipe ... Goris has not yet entered the courtroom ... perhaps he will be called upon down the road to testify about the drug debt.

And ya notice I DIDNT even mention the bikers LOL!

 

[ChaChaCha]

I am back again ...on the subject of TLM, does anyone remember some of the photos of herself posted on her FB at the time ... gang like poses, pretty tough stuff. I am of the opinion that of the two abductors, TLM was the more violent, and further that her gang mentality combined with her drug use and an outstanding drug debt would be enough for her to want to exact revenge."

Note today's TM testimony ... that the kids usually walked TO school. If that pair were trolling the area when school started I am pretty damn sure that they were looking for TS, and not a random child. Perhaps they were not aware that TM had MOVED the week before, and were looking in the wrong area for TS??? They didn't find her that morning, so they reconvened for when classes let out. Pretty bold - why would an abductor actually enter onto school property where they are more likely to be noticed??? Why not wait on the STREET with a car nearby, and abduct from there??? Nope, my opinion is that TS was targeted, and since TLM didn't know which direction the child would be heading after school, she boldly entered the school ground to FIND her.

Gotta feeling that the defence will be going down this road ... carefully weaving their story to show that TLM was the instigator, and Rafferty the dupe.


I am NOT saying that Rafferty is innocent ... far from it since in the eyes of the law he was complicent in a kidnapping, rape and murder and I agree with that, just that his defence team will try to portray him as having been blindsided.

 

[antiquegirl]

March 7, 2012 - Trial Day 3

LFP video - Tori's Mom Testifies

http://www.lfpress.com/video/featured/london-and-region/5828787001/toris-mom-testifies/1494588006001

 

[Wondergirl]

Rafferty's lawyer says that TLM's testimony will shed some light on just how well she actually knew Tori, according to this new video on LFP:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/07/19473851.html


A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory. - Unknown

 

[flipflop]

I am back again ...on the subject of TLM, does anyone remember some of the photos of herself posted on her FB at the time ... gang like poses, pretty tough stuff. I am of the opinion that of the two abductors, TLM was the more violent, and further that her gang mentality combined with her drug use and an outstanding drug debt would be enough for her to want to exact revenge."

Note today's TM testimony ... that the kids usually walked TO school. If that pair were trolling the area when school started I am pretty damn sure that they were looking for TS, and not a random child. Perhaps they were not aware that TM had MOVED the week before, and were looking in the wrong area for TS??? They didn't find her that morning, so they reconvened for when classes let out. Pretty bold - why would an abductor actually enter onto school property where they are more likely to be noticed??? Why not wait on the STREET with a car nearby, and abduct from there??? Nope, my opinion is that TS was targeted, and since TLM didn't know which direction the child would be heading after school, she boldly entered the school ground to FIND her.Gotta feeling that the defence will be going down this road ... carefully weaving their story to show that TLM was the instigator, and Rafferty the dupe.

I am NOT saying that Rafferty is innocent ... far from it since in the eyes of the law he was complicent in a kidnapping, rape and murder and I agree with that, just that his defence team will try to portray him as having been blindsided.

BBM...TLM entered the school grounds??? I was under the impression that she met her on the street.

 

[Wondergirl]

Did you notice the different video stills clearly showing that while TLM was walking with Tori at 3:30 pm on the time stamp, that "someone" in a white shirt/coat was driving the ugly civic and caught on video?

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory. - Unknown