Trial Thread 4/25/2012

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Wow CL, thank you so much for sharing your story, that must have been very hard growing up and am so glad you have been able to move onwards and upwards and are in a good place :)

I have always thought that TLM put on a tough girl act but deep down was lonely and wanted to feel loved, cared for and wanted. I think I posted that in the weekend thread, when I was talking about the when I went to court for her first day of testimony.

NP :)

I didnt want anyone to think I was actually crazy to do something even if I thought about it.

I really have gone through hell and back and I am engaged to the best guy in the world who is adopting my daughter.

I wouldnt be the person I am today if I didnt go through those hard times and got lucky enough to have a child that changed my world.

I owe my daughter for saving my life :)
 
NP :)

I didnt want anyone to think I was actually crazy to do something even if I thought about it.

I really have gone through hell and back and I am engaged to the best guy in the world who is adopting my daughter.

I wouldnt be the person I am today if I didnt go through those hard times and got lucky enough to have a child that changed my world.

I owe my daughter for saving my life :)
My daughter saved my life, too :)
If she never came along, i'd still be a drunken mess, and would likely be doing the drugs I promised myself I would never do (none of which included oxy, as that drug was never used by the people I associated with, except to feel 'normal' when they were in between buying their drug of choice, usually cocaine or morphine. They ALL stated that it didn't get them 'high', but it helped them feel 'normal' when they didn't have their drugs... and they bullied people that did use it as their drug of choice)

As you said, I don't feel sorry for TLM, but I do understand why she is the way she is (with the exception of the child killing...). My life was hell, too... but not nearly as bad as hers. I also find myself wondering if she told the truth when she said she doesn't understand how she could have killed a child. Perhaps she honestly doesn't get why and how. Mental illness... I don't doubt she has one. JMO.
 
Another good article.

Wreathed in smiles, the two young people resembled carefree honeymooners. But the venue was a prison visiting room, the video footage was from surveillance cameras, and the players were Terri-Lynne McClintic and Michael Rafferty, jointly charged in the abduction and murder of eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford, beaten to death with a hammer after allegedly being savagely raped.
More related to this story




With Mr. Rafferty’s trial now in its eighth week, it surely takes a lot to shock the jurors after the nightmarish evidence they have been compelled to see and hear. But the silent video footage they viewed Wednesday afternoon – and its timing – must have seemed almost incomprehensible.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2414368




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Wow CL, thank you so much for sharing your story, that must have been very hard growing up and am so glad you have been able to move onwards and upwards and are in a good place :)

I have always thought that TLM put on a tough girl act but deep down was lonely and wanted to feel loved, cared for and wanted. I think I posted that in the weekend thread, when I was talking about the when I went to court for her first day of testimony.

...I too must take the time to thank you for your post...It took a lot to post this here ...I think Ontario feels very torn up about this story as I just listen to Rodney say this after watching the saddest videos I have ever seen of MR visiting TLM....I understand what has been written ( your post ) ...I feel similar ...IMO about TLM ...I also have spent 3 years of my life here in complete agony about Tori ....been very touched by her page on fb dedicated to her too....I have heard from Woodstock from that site and how it has torn their heart out as it has mine ...IMO ...I pray that JUSTIce is served to the evilness that was done to POOR Tori...and I must say ...IMO that I do feel that MR was the mastermind behind this crime and he manipulated those women ...and is a master in his game ...ABUSE and MANipulation of others as that is what that type of perosn Does best ...and he would have done this in a matter of time ...IMO and I woder about his past as it really has not been told...not what I believe is the totallity of his master GAME...IMO and I feel strongly in that ...robynhood !
 
This is very telling. I bet LE's hinky meter's were off the charts on him.

Even the mainstream press is starting to show an edge. JMO

Acting like young lovers
RANDY RICHMOND, The London Free Press

"They act like young lovers everywhere, hugging, holding hands, teasing each other, laughing.
He shows off his biceps and caresses her hair. She knocks away a magazine he uses like a telescope to peer at her.
It is all so romantic, so normal."
 
Still catching up sorry if this was posted already.

In that case, it would be interesting to know if TLM's drug contacts were among MTR's facebook friends.

It would be interesting, but certainly not necessary. He contacted them on his phone. The Facebook update was only referring to his state of mind to share with anyone on his friend list. He didn't need a coded message to his drug connections. My FB friends and I often share our moods and expectations via updates, although we try to avoid "vaguebooking", as he did here.

JMO
 
Just watched one of the videos. Still think the point was lost without the audio, but, when she started batting his hands out of the way, it looked like he was poking her. Why would he be poking at her? Playfully or not, most people find it annoying. And she allegedly assaulted her mother for poking at her, so she REALLY doesn't like it. Why would he do that if he was so scared of her? If he knew about TLM's assault against her mother for the poking, he would know she doesn't like it, and if he was afraid of her, he would NOT do anything to provoke her.
IMO, he wasn't afraid of her in the least. She did not manipulate him. Anything he might have done, he did by choice, not coercion.

That said, I also don't think he *actively* manipulated her, either. She CHOSE to ignore warning signs that this guy was not all that into her. She liked him and wanted him and did whatever he asked because she wanted to. He didn't need to manipulate her.
Now, what he asked... did it include abducting and murdering a child? If it did, she went along with it on her own free will. To make him happy? Probably. But she was willing.
As was he...
There was no manipulation between them. JMO.
 
My opinion

TLM admiration for MR after he was suppose to raped an eight year old is repulsive. There is no way that she would have been so attentive to him ... To me she had him right were she wanted, PUPPET.

MR looked forced to offer her even the slightest affection. Reluctant to even hug her, patting her back and tapping her on the head was in no way a romantic jestor.

It shows me that everything is not always what the seem.
 
My opinion

TLM admiration for MR after he was suppose to raped an eight year old is repulsive. There is no way that she would have been so attentive to him ... To me she had him right were she wanted, PUPPET.

MR looked forced to offer her even the slightest affection. Reluctant to even hug her, patting her back and tapping her on the head was in no way a romantic jestor.

It shows me that everything is not always what the seem.

They were like this before the murder. The "date" video, he looked reluctant/repulsed to even be near her. He went as far as to spin around to get away from her when she put her hand on him. He was using her for drugs and sex, he was never quite into her.
TLM, on the other hand, came across as desperate for affection, both during these videos, and that "date" video. IMO, nothing had changed between them after the murder. It was more of the same.

JMO.
 
interesting ..thanks for putting that up...one would never think by looking at TLM in that video that she is such an evil devil who murdered a little girl only a month before and in such a horrific way.....just goes to show that looks mean nothing in deciding a persons guilt..JMO

Looking at MTR, one would never think he had witnessed the horrifying murder of a child just a month before either. Hmmm. JMO
 
This is very telling. I bet LE's hinky meter's were off the charts on him.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't know when LE examined TLM's calls to and from the detention centre, but suspect it wasn't until after her confession. They didn't get MTR's phone records until sometime in June.

LE was suspicious enough from their interview with him to decide to go back on the 16th to try to get photos of his car, which was gone by then, but not enough to take him in for questioning that night (the 15th). We know his car was in London that week-end, but wasn't spotted until he returned to Woodstock on the evening of the 19th. There didn't seem to be a province-wide alert (BOLO?) for his vehicle.

I've heard nothing from the Crown's evidence to suggest that LE had more on him for the arrest than the resemblance of his vehicle to the CASS video footage and then TLM's confession on the 19th. But perhaps I've missed something.

JMO

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP
On June 1 Brady started tracking Rafferty's Blackberry account, Started with Rogers in Woodstock - they suggested Bell at White Oaks London
 
This is what I got from the video.

1) He was very agitated in the first video when waiting at the door
2) He looked straight at the cameras 3 or 4 times. He was aware they were there.
3) TLM looks like she really cares for him a lot. I will explain after.
4) MTR looks uninterested in her other than the fact he looks as though he is there to pretend like he cares but is making sure she follows through with what they talked about before
5) They both seem too relaxed for killing a child just over a month.
6) back to business as soon as he walks out the door in the first video
7) she waits there in the second video maybe hoping he will wave to her but he doesnt even look back at her at all.

I grew up in Toronto and went to a private school. I was nieve, and didnt have any friends when I moved to Mississauga. I didnt fit in and I became a very angry teenager.

Throughout high school the same thing, I was pretty popular but more because I wanted people to be afraid of me so they wouldnt bully me.

If a guy told me the right things I was one of those people that did sleep with someone on the first date, because I didnt feel like I could say no. I was always looking for that person that was going to treat me the way I should be treated however I was going about it all the wrong ways. I didnt have a father figure in my life that actually told me how I should be treated so I was always looking for love in a man. BARF now that i think about how I was.

I was like, aggressive, words that came out of my mouth was beyond foul, I guess you could have called me a *advertiser censored* if you really knew, but deep inside I really wasnt that person. I was abused by my father physically and emotionally and I felt that the way I was being treated by guys was fine because that is all I saw with my mom and dad.

I think back on those days and think of the anger that I had. I used to put a knife under my pillow because I did want to kill my dad. I hated him that much but the reason I didnt was because my mother would be sad and I couldnt do anything to hurt her.

I was raised in a very strict militant christian home as well were you didnt have an opinion and you were just not good enough.

I was raped by my own boyfriend and I only knew abusive relationships.

I am far from that person now thanks to tons of therapy and I learned to love myself.

I may have thought those things but I could never ever have gone through with it. That is why I can see how MTR manipulated TLM. I get that she is F@@% up but he was 10 yrs older than her he knew what to say to her to get her to do what he wanted to do.

I really think he is the big mastermind after 3 yrs of dedicating my life to this case and after everything I have heard. He is seriously the bad seed he has just never been caught. Either people have turned a blind eye or they have dug him out of jams in the past.

I dont feel sorry for TLM I understand her. I see why she is who she is just not why she would kill an innocent girl. This is part of her testimony I just dont understand nor am I 100% sure I buy the store she told but like I said if I believe the rest of her story with all the evidence that has added up I have to believe she is telling the truth about the murder.

I worry and the reason I am still here is because I dont want this guy to get off because he is far from innocent.

Anyways I had a glass of wine, no one on here really knows me so it cant be used against me LOL...

You have my admiration for the overcoming and becoming a survivor.
 
They were like this before the murder. The "date" video, he looked reluctant/repulsed to even be near her. He went as far as to spin around to get away from her when she put her hand on him. He was using her for drugs and sex, he was never quite into her.
TLM, on the other hand, came across as desperate for affection, both during these videos, and that "date" video. IMO, nothing had changed between them after the murder. It was more of the same.

JMO.

Just my point. He wasn't manipulating her more like humoring ...
Still guilty of being a scum bag ...
 
Otto I think the poster was referring to the two people in court today who were caught taking pictures..one had left his phone in his auto with a picture on it taken from inside the court room which is a no no and could cause a mistrial..It looks like he took the picture at another time...The other person was caught red handed with his phone and picture inside the court.. JMO
respectfully...

Just to point out that there are three breaks in each trial day and the photo could have been placed there during one of those breaks and been taken the same day. I wonder what could have been of such interest in today's proceedings for those men to take that risk? Spectators are searched twice before entering that room and told to turn off all phones.

I think it's terrible that these guys would do this and hope they get a fine, but seriously doubt that it will cause a mistrial. Fortunately, no photographs got out.

JMO
 
Looking at MTR, one would never think he had witnessed the horrifying murder of a child just a month before either. Hmmm. JMO


he probably didn't witness the murder...just the aftermath but I agree he shouldn't have looked so carefree but then as I mentioned previously..looks can be deceiving...JMO
 
It would be interesting, but certainly not necessary. He contacted them on his phone. The Facebook update was only referring to his state of mind to share with anyone on his friend list. He didn't need a coded message to his drug connections. My FB friends and I often share our moods and expectations via updates, although we try to avoid "vaguebooking", as he did here.

JMO

I would like to find out if TLM druggie friends were gang members and/or did MR have contact with them after TLM was locked up.
 
I will wait to see what the defense has to say, but I am curious if anyone here can think of a reason for the behavior of MR to TLM AFTER the murder took place, given that the defense has already said that he helped to clean up.
I have heard people postulate he was unaware of the kidnapping until too late (babysitting, drug debt), that there was no rape, that he walked away when the murder took place. But why would he act like he does after the fact if TLM's sudden plan and visciousness was a surprise to him? Why would he continue to "court" TLM? Why would he rev up his "dating" life? Is there some explanation I am missing? His actions seem to speak so loudly of his deep involvement to me.

MHO I don't think the defense has done any good for MR thus far. As I have stated before maybe Derstine knows MR's goose is cooked and there is no help for him. I don't see on shred of information from Derstine's cross that will go to help MR getting off of "any" of the charges. I did compile a list IIRC on Monday from all the LFP tweets of Derstine's cross examinations of witnesses and nothing, absolutely nothing worthwhile. Will be interesting to see who Derstine calls as witnesses, if he calls any at all. That will IMHO be the big telltale sign of what Derstine thinks of this whole case. There is so much evidence and he has not been able to shed the slightest bit of doubt in my mind, and everything TLM stated to in her testimony is bang right on the line. I think it's a done deal really. Again just my own honest opinion.
 
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